Forgiveness

[Gemme]

Originally Posted by Nat

What are your thoughts on forgiveness? What does forgiveness mean to you? What does it feel like to you? Do you have methods or rituals of forgiveness? Do you feel there are times when forgiveness is not an option? Do you forgive frequently or rarely? Do you forgive yourself? Do you seek forgiveness for things you regret? If you have kids or have young people in your life, what do/would you teach them about forgiveness? Any other thoughts on forgiveness?

I am not a very forgiving person, either for myself or for others. I give what has been referred to as 'mafia love'...you have to prove your worthy and then you are in for life until you mess up and then you are out like Project Runway.

I rarely do second chances for medium-sized goofs and never for huge ones like cheating, etc.

I think it's a great idea, though, and know that it's helped many people overcome terrible circumstances. I just haven't reached that level of maturity in this life, though.

[Mitmo01]

Originally Posted by Gemme

I am not a very forgiving person, either for myself or for others. I give what has been referred to as 'mafia love'...you have to prove your worthy and then you are in for life until you mess up and then you are out like Project Runway.

I rarely do second chances for medium-sized goofs and never for huge ones like cheating, etc.

I think it's a great idea, though, and know that it's helped many people overcome terrible circumstances. I just haven't reached that level of maturity in this life, though.

Wow I think I know exactly what your talking about here Gemme, its very weird with me Im totally like this....

Once you cross some kind of internal line with me then its over....

For me forgiveness is something I def have to work on, both giving and recieving..

when i look at the subject from an academic view its somthing entirely different than what lays next to my heart...but I strive for self examination and forgiveness is something I intrinsically know will be hard for me always...

I want to be someone who is always open to examining my actions and if I desire forgiveness for whatever it is Ive done...then I have to be able to give that as well and sometimes its so hard when my emotions are involved since im def an emotional creature...

when I think about forgiveness from a global view its a much different story..

I have been emotionally humbled by reading about the Truth and Reconcilliation Commissions in South Africa and Rwanda.I have been emotionally humbled by reading Elie Weisel and Primo Levi...and I have met in person, talked to and cried like a baby in front of Holocaust survivors when I attended various events....They allowed me to see some kind of hope or something in thier existence that has and always will strike to the core of my being..I worked with someone who escaped literally as machine guns were blazing at him from the Khmer Rouge in Cambodia and we talked about where he was from and what he went through and I remember thinking to myself that I really needed to listen to what he was telling me and absorb that for life



something about the capacity for forgiveness makes me cry like a baby as well....

That people whose lives have been destroyed and yet somehow they find it in themselves to allow that forgiveness just makes me realize how much more I have to learn about life and love...

[Hack]

I think forgiveness and the ability to forgive is a highly personal journey and experience.

For me, forgiveness is the single most liberating and cleansing thing.

I hold a grudge for about a mili-second. It takes a lot -- a lot -- to make me angry.

I'm all about doing what I can to move my life forward. Anger, grudges, etc...I see that stuff as weight holding me down. I can't accept it for myself.

[Queerasfck]

I have forgiven Jesus.

[Blade]

I pulled this from my post on a different thread, because I got a lot of feed back and we have a lot of new people since I made this post.

What Forgiveness is not
Forgiveness is not condoning unkindness
Forgiveness is not forgetting that what happened was painful
Forgiveness is not excusing poor behavior
Forgiveness is not denying or minimizing your hurt
Forgiveness does not mean reconciling with the offender
Forgiveness does not mean you give up having feelings


What is Forgiveness
Forgiveness is for you not the offender
Forgiveness is taking back your power
Forgiveness is taking responsibility for how you feel
Forgiveness is about your healing not about the person that hurt you
Forgiveness is a trainable skill just like learning to throw a ball
Forgiveness is a choice
Forgiveness is becoming the hero instead of the victim

[Ryobi]

Originally Posted by Hack

I think forgiveness and the ability to forgive is a highly personal journey and experience.

For me, forgiveness is the single most liberating and cleansing thing.

I hold a grudge for about a mili-second. It takes a lot -- a lot -- to make me angry.

I'm all about doing what I can to move my life forward. Anger, grudges, etc...I see that stuff as weight holding me down. I can't accept it for myself.

I really like this post. I feel much the same about it.

If I find myself where I need to forgive someone, I'm probably angry about it. I do have a process I go through. I try to figure out why the person did what they did. I look at myself first, then I will ask them. If they're not willing to help me in the process of forgiving them, I will move on and do what I need to do for me. (yes, the whole process is for ME) As I work through it, if I loved that person, sometimes the process is more painful than the offense. I know when I have forgiven them, I won't love them the same as I once did. I don't like that but, I can definitely deal with it. The more I love them, the longer the process takes.
I don't believe in forgive and forget. I practice forgive, forgive, and don't forget. If I'm forgiving someone, I forgive the person, I forgive the offense, and I don't forget what kind of capabilities that person has for hurting others. I won't expose myself to it again.
If I need to forgive me, I forgive myself, I forgive the offense, and I don't forget the pain I have caused people. I do some soul searching in hopes of losing some of my capabilities.

I might be back with more thoughts.

[Ryobi]

I have no judgment whether someone forgives or not. I wonder though, for the folks who don't forgive, (or can't forgive) do you expect forgiveness from others? Does it matter to you if you are forgiven or not?

[Soft*Silver]

I want to address Ryobi's question. I forgive. Just not carte blanche. Some things are not meant to be forgiven. If you read my post you will see I talk about me not expecting others to always forgive me. I have very few unforgivables. One burns in me with lava anger..a resentment and it is toxic to my sobriety if I dont work on it. Resentments are NEVER good. This is an example of anger being mixed with unforigiveness. I am dealing with it on a daily level. I hope maybe one day of it not being lava like at least.

I have one other person I have forgiven for many things but one thing I will not forgive her for. I know why she did what she did. I know it was bad judgement on her part and she really wasnt schooled to be any more than this action. I know she couldnt give what she herself was never given. Had she even said she was sorry I could forgive. But that never came. I know she couldnt because she couldnt see or if she could, hoped I couldnt see, how wrong her behavior was. I speak of my mother. Of all the things wrong she did (and she did many many things right) she did one thing that remains the most hurtful of all things ever done to me. I will not forgive her. But I dont hate her. In my unforgiveness I hold her close to my own heart and weep that she could not have been a happier person or have been loved better herself so she could have known how wrong this was. I dont hold it against it. It does not seperate who we are to one another. but the action was deadly to my soul and to forgive her of her deed, would be to betray me to myself. I will not do that either. But I will not stop loving her. In fact, I love her more because of it. Can you understand?

I have recently contacted most of my exes in preparation to do my ammends. Well, actually I have begun some. All of them were glad to hear from me. We let the past lay on the ground like autumn leaves. We move closer to death than to life in our age brackets and we have come to realize forgiveness is a blessing and a gift. None of us want to go to our grave hating the other. Or resenting. Or having ill feelings. What matters is we are happy NOW. And what we found in each other that caused us to love each other, can now once again be shared but in a simpler, less intense, and less familiar way.

when I close my eyes for the final time, I want my grandchildren to remember me with love and light, not hurt and pain. Its how I remember my mother that way. Certainly my father too. I hope to get to a place where forgiveness isnt what necessary but acceptance is. It was what it was. I want to close my eyes and know the life I led was a good one, if not a perfect one. And what would make it good would be the lessons I learned and passed onto those whom I loved.

Originally Posted by Ryobi

I have no judgment whether someone forgives or not. I wonder though, for the folks who don't forgive, (or can't forgive) do you expect forgiveness from others? Does it matter to you if you are forgiven or not?

[princessbelle]

I'm really tired tonight and not quite sure this will make a whole lot of sense...but, i've been thinking about this thread a lot and what i think and it's made me really look deep inside and try to articulate a response.

I have come to the conclusion that i can do one of two things when faced with someone who has wronged me.

I can forgive and forget. It depends on the person, the action and whether or not this person is someone I want to keep in my life or at least keeping that door open. It depends on their remorse or at least an acknowledgment of doing wrong. In doing that I can forgive their action whether it be one of haste, not thinking, anger, self centeredness, caty or just plain stupid. These actions i am willing to forgive and forget.

Or...

I can forget and not forgive. These are the situations in my life that people have passed through the portals on my journey only to bring harm, hurt, dishonesty, thinking they are better than, mental anguish and or physical abuse. I decided long ago that these people do not deserve my forgiveness and forgetting they exist is the best way for me to simply rise above their cause of suffering and gift myself with putting them out of my mind. I have learned i am totally capable of doing this. Closing a door on someone is forgetting them. Not dwelling on their behaviour or trying to figure it out is my way of coping. I will not take the energy to forgive them and I will not allow these types of people into my life....into my journey...into my head and heart. I close the door tight....they are forgotten but never forgiven.

[rlin]

Originally Posted by princessbelle

Or...

I can forget and not forgive. These are the situations in my life that people have passed through the portals on my journey only to bring harm, hurt, dishonesty, thinking they are better than, mental anguish and or physical abuse. I decided long ago that these people do not deserve my forgiveness and forgetting they exist is the best way for me to simply rise above their cause of suffering and gift myself with putting them out of my mind. I have learned i am totally capable of doing this. Closing a door on someone is forgetting them. Not dwelling on their behaviour or trying to figure it out is my way of coping. I will not take the energy to forgive them and I will not allow these types of people into my life....into my journey...into my head and heart. I close the door tight....they are forgotten but never forgiven.

belle...
this is pure genius... all my life i have of course heard the converse... to forgive but not forget... its obvious when you say this that you have it the correct way...
if i can forgive them...i may as well forget it... but if i cant forgive them... i damned sure owe it to myself to forget... why should i punish myself for something someone put on me? excellent premise...
i am a little tired myself... but... i had to tell you that i really admire this statement...
you are obviously a really smart lady...

b

[DamonK]

Forgiveness is a bitter thing for me.

I've done things I don't expect forgiveness for. Things have been done that I am unable to forgive.

I do believe in forgiveness. However I don't believe in forgetting. Inability to forget doesn't mean I hold a grudge. I don't think of the transgression every time the offender is seen. But the betrayal is remembered and things may change slightly to ensure that doesn't happen again. For example, I am lied to. From then on, I make take what that person says with a grain of salt.

A more extreme example... my abuser. He's forgiven. It's not forgotten. I will socialize with him, but I will avoid being alone with him for any extended period of time.

For me.. sometimes the overall person outweighs the betrayal.

However, I never forgive for them. I do it so it doesn't eat me alive.

[Sachita]

Originally Posted by princessbelle

I'm really tired tonight and not quite sure this will make a whole lot of sense...but, i've been thinking about this thread a lot and what i think and it's made me really look deep inside and try to articulate a response.

I have come to the conclusion that i can do one of two things when faced with someone who has wronged me.

I can forgive and forget. It depends on the person, the action and whether or not this person is someone I want to keep in my life or at least keeping that door open. It depends on their remorse or at least an acknowledgment of doing wrong. In doing that I can forgive their action whether it be one of haste, not thinking, anger, self centeredness, caty or just plain stupid. These actions i am willing to forgive and forget.

Or...

I can forget and not forgive. These are the situations in my life that people have passed through the portals on my journey only to bring harm, hurt, dishonesty, thinking they are better than, mental anguish and or physical abuse. I decided long ago that these people do not deserve my forgiveness and forgetting they exist is the best way for me to simply rise above their cause of suffering and gift myself with putting them out of my mind. I have learned i am totally capable of doing this. Closing a door on someone is forgetting them. Not dwelling on their behaviour or trying to figure it out is my way of coping. I will not take the energy to forgive them and I will not allow these types of people into my life....into my journey...into my head and heart. I close the door tight....they are forgotten but never forgiven.

We are a like on this. It really depends on the person and situation. There is a certain level of deception I find insane and if I encounter it I forget. Forgiving isnt anywhere in the equation. I simple shut the door and try to put it out of my mind. Ok, maybe I dwell on it a few days wondering WTF and try to figure out why I attracted such nonsense into my life in the first place. I try and grasp the lesson, if there is one and forget.

Then you have forgive, let go but never forget.

I have people in my life today I forgive over and over. Someone might thing its crazy but I know the essence of that human isnt bad and they just cant help themselves. I put it in a whole different perspective but at the same time I never let them get too close to me because then its an issue of trust.

It took me a long time to forgive myself on some things but I did.