only another butch would understand

[Dean Thoreau]

Enjoys the calm; the peace,,and
burps freely without restraint...............

[Jet]

The pain of hearing emasculating things from a woman because she's pissed. Is there anything more hurtful short of a breakup? *Opening a brewski waiting to see thoughts on this*

[I'mOneToo]

not sure which is worse, actually -- a femme or another butch doing that. when it happens it's like someone is trying to hurl the ultimate insult.

Originally Posted by Ol' Jet

The pain of hearing emasculating things from a woman because she's pissed. Is there anything more hurtful short of a breakup? *Opening a brewski waiting to see thoughts on this*

[Jet]

Originally Posted by i'monetoo

not sure which is worse, actually -- a femme or another butch doing that. When it happens it's like someone is trying to hurl the ultimate insult.

Exactly!.....

[atomiczombie]

The best thing in the whole wide world is a Femme who does understand.

[TROOPER]

Originally Posted by atomiczombie

The best thing in the whole wide world is a Femme who does understand.

BRAVO~~ Thanking the Heavens Above!!

[Jett]

Originally Posted by Ol' Jet

The pain of being emasculated by a woman because she's pissed. Is there anything more hurtful short of a breakup? *Opening a brewski waiting to see thoughts on this*

Although you stated your query was directed to the "male identified" of which I'm not... just a thought. Someone may try to emasculate a butch (either male or female ID etc. etc. etc.) but I don't believe they actually can do this without said butch allowing it.

In other words, no one can emasculate me... though they may try and it isn't pleasant I'd guess... but IMO it only reflects back on their own short comings.


Anyway good thread Dean Thoreau... though I'm not much of a burper.

[Jet]

Originally Posted by Metropolis

A thought from a butch who's not "male identified" what-ever it be worth to your query Jet... someone may try to emasculate a butch (either male or female ID etc. etc. etc.) but I don't believe they actually can do this without said butch allowing it.

In other words, no one can emasculate me... though they may try and it isn't pleasant I'd guess... but it only reflects back on their own short comings.


Anyway good tread Dean Thoreau... though I'm not much of a burper.

I get it totally. Its not so much the words, it's that it negates everything you thought she understood. It's a trust issue or as though she lied and never thought you as her butch. Otherwise why would she do that?

[BullDog]

Well I don't burp much, am not male identified, and don't have a huge concern about anyone trying to emasculate me, but howdy to all the butches in the Butch Zone.

[Jett]

Originally Posted by BullDog

Well I don't burp much, am not male identified, and don't have a huge concern about anyone trying to emasculate me, but howdy to all the butches in the Butch Zone.

Hey Bully!

[Jett]

Originally Posted by Ol' Jet

I get it totally. Its not so much the words, it's that it negates everything you thought she understood. It's a trust issue or as though she lied and never thought you as her butch. Otherwise why would she do that?

Right... it's a low blow and from one who should support you the most... pretty ugly. Unfortunately when peeps get pissed, some resort to the nasty stuff.

Live and learn I guess and hopefully so will they eventually...

[sharkchomp]

Originally Posted by Ol' Jet

The pain of hearing emasculating things from a woman because she's pissed. Is there anything more hurtful short of a breakup? *Opening a brewski waiting to see thoughts on this*

I totally get what you're saying Jet! It's the loss of trust from someone who once said 'I get YOU'. For me, it's not insulting it's more of a betrayal. It doesn't take anything away from who I am but it surely can sting because I care/cared for that person.

~~~shark~~~~~~~~

[Kast]

Originally Posted by Ol' Jet

The pain of hearing emasculating things from a woman because she's pissed. Is there anything more hurtful short of a breakup? *Opening a brewski waiting to see thoughts on this*

Jet - I think part of what it is ... is human psychology. During our courtship our women learn what it is that drives us, inspires us, what are pleasures are, our intimate thoughts, our favorite movies, music, food to eat... and so forth. When it come to the nastiness of a bad argument or break-up, some of them start pushing buttons, they find the thing that insults, shocks, tears us down, etc. the most - and go for the jugular vein...

[Rook]

=unabashedly Burps...Loud, when in company of Close-knit family/friends only...highly amusing...=

*Sneezes hard...covered mouth of course, if the loudness annoys, tough, I cant control that any more than u can control an open mouth Yawn when exhausted..=

= Passes Gas...Yup...I do make sure when appropriate, to TRY and leave the "busy" area...If I hold, I get the stomach cramps, not u..=

Only my immediate relatives are allowed to freely use my Birth name....
Anyone else will get a home-brewed Glare and Correction to use my Legal name...if it persists, I am not responsible for my smart-ass'd cynical/asshole redhead temper.....

= TransMasculine identified stone Butch, Loving this thread=

[Jess]

Personally, I think part of the "things only a butch would understand" is that knowing how to be "handy" and fix things, use tools, learn which tools to buy and which will make your life/ task easier... Does not come at birth!

Generally speaking, most of the butches/ women I know had at least one brother to whom their Dad's "taught" helpful junk to. Fixing cars/ toilets, etc. and as adults, we learned to hate that because we became reliant upon the service industry to do even the simplest repairs/ maintenance tasks.

What this butch understands is that even though my Dad didn't teach me and I spent years waiting and paying for repairs was that I could learn and it was actually pretty cool to do so. Some projects are fraught with frustration "while" I learn, but the end result of being able to do something "handy" for myself kicks ass! Burp! HOO RAH! ~scuse me~

The flip side of this process of tool discovery is the new category of superhero it places me into. I don't think of most butches I know as stereotypical anything. They are doctors, lawyers, chefs, teachers, mechanics, accountants who can or cannot burp , fart, or do floral arrangements with an uncanny grace that is neither masculine or feminine , it is moreover a reflection of confidence and care for the task at hand.

What I do feel pretty certain that all butches might understand is our own need to be exactly whom we are with all of the differences ( often from one another) that that may mean. I identify very strongly with my more masculine traits, however being born in this body and being seen and raised as a "girl" created a strong sense of seeking my own truths. It is just a guess on my part that many ( if not most) butches feel a very deep sense or need ( maybe urgency) to ID ourselves rather than have "any" stereotypes.

I do have an inner "pig" who loves to commandeer the remote, guzzle a brew, and make passionate armchair commentary while watching Hells' Kitchen. ( How many thought I was gonna say football? heh.. gotcha!) I also have a deep desire to make my girls home her sanctuary filling each back breaking chore with love.

I am very interested to see how conversations like this will go in this new space. I sincerely try not to be a shit stirrer and try to see things as an opportunity for me to perhaps expand the way I see the world and myself.

Thanks for some early morning brain candy.. to everyone who has shared!

I do have a things only butches would understand situation that I may get brave enough ( or stupid enough ) to share.. but I will give it a bit to see if this is the right place to do it... LOL!

Again, Thanks a heap folks!
Jess

[Darth Denkay]

Hi all!

I'm going to use this portion of Jess's post as a jumping off point...maybe I should ask first...nah, it's all good.

I absolutely agree with the statement that being a happy handyman does not come at birth. I'm going to take it a step farther and add that sometimes it never comes (not implying that you indicated that it did). I've got a small tool box with your basic set of tools. I can do minor repairs around the house but I'm not going to try anything that's too difficult. Usually if something needs to be fixed I look it up online, see if it looks do-able, and if not I'm calling the repair guy.

It does occur to me that as an adult I have generally always rented, meaning I don't have to pay for repairs. One of these days when I buy again, that might be motivation to try and pick up more skills. Then again, maybe it won't.

Same thing with my car - I can do the basic maintenance but I've got a great mechanic for anything beyond that.

Speaking of cars, I've noticed that my straight guy friends seem to go with the stereotype that I give a shit about cars. We'll be driving around and they're talking about models and years and such - I'm politely nodding my head but really couldn't care less. I can't identify a car until I'm close enough to see the model written on the back. It's just something I'm not interested in.

I was talking to a butch friend a while back and he was concerned because he felt as though because he's a butch he should be a happy handyman in order to take care of his partner. I pointed out that some partners are quite capable of taking care of home maintenance. Beyond that though, just because I may not do the repairs with my own hands doesn't mean I'm not taking care of my partner. I'm not good with my hands (well, at least in that way )but I know who to call when something comes up.

I've got a fairly unrelated question as to how butches prefer to be referred to (knowing that this is personal preference, there is no single answer. We know that within our butch ranks we have female-identified, male-identified, other-identified; those who prefer male pronouns, those who prefer female pronouns, and those who couldn't care less. One word I use frequently with butches is 'bro'. I'm assuming that male-identified would be fine with this, but does this term feel erasing to some? I'd love to hear your collective thoughts on this.

Originally Posted by SyrJess

Personally, I think part of the "things only a butch would understand" is that knowing how to be "handy" and fix things, use tools, learn which tools to buy and which will make your life/ task easier... Does not come at birth!

Generally speaking, most of the butches/ women I know had at least one brother to whom their Dad's "taught" helpful junk to. Fixing cars/ toilets, etc. and as adults, we learned to hate that because we became reliant upon the service industry to do even the simplest repairs/ maintenance tasks.

What this butch understands is that even though my Dad didn't teach me and I spent years waiting and paying for repairs was that I could learn and it was actually pretty cool to do so. Some projects are fraught with frustration "while" I learn, but the end result of being able to do something "handy" for myself kicks ass! Burp! HOO RAH! ~scuse me~


Jess

[Tommi]

God Morning Jess, nice post.. I am on my way to Sears this am for some more Craftsman Love. My girl loves tools, but willingly and lovingly lets me do the fun stuff, cuz my she likes that suspender snapping peacock strutting way it makes us feel to do things.(take literally)

Wow..I am away for 24 hours and ...the butch world comes out form the shadows and starts burping..

My Mama woulda decked me had I done either, but that's beside the point. But my uncle's were allowed to have conteststs..anyway.

Haven't read all the posts, and won't ....but, here is what came to my mind when I saw the title on the front page this morning.

Only a Butch would understand, that nod we have for each other as we pass each other on the street, or in a restaurant.

Only a Butch would understand that glance she gives us in the mirror when she sees us smiling as she applies her lipstick.

Only a butch would understand, another butch

[Jett]

Originally Posted by Tommi

God Morning Jess, nice post.. I am on my way to Sears this am for some more Craftsman Love. My girl loves tools, but willingly and lovingly lets me do the fun stuff, cuz my she likes that suspender snapping peacock strutting way it makes us feel to do things.(take literally)

Wow..I am away for 24 hours and ...the butch world comes out form the shadows and starts burping..

My Mama woulda decked me had I done either, but that's beside the point. But my uncle's were allowed to have conteststs..anyway.

Haven't read all the posts, and won't ....but, here is what came to my mind when I saw the title on the front page this morning.

Only a Butch would understand, that nod we have for each other as we pass each other on the street, or in a restaurant.

Only a Butch would understand that glance she gives us in the mirror when she sees us smiling as she applies her lipstick.

Only a butch would understand, another butch

LOL... she always tilts her head at me, holds out the lipstick and smirking says ... "want some?"

[Darth Denkay]

This is so true Tommi - such a great gesture.

Originally Posted by Tommi

Only a Butch would understand, that nod we have for each other as we pass each other on the street, or in a restaurant.

[Jett]

I think as butches... we all understand is what it's like to be stereotyped. We all run into people who EXPECT us to do, understand, know A B and C just because we are butch... and although I can rebuild an engine, build a cabin from the ground up and have ridden motorcycles since I was 7 yrs. old etc etc etc... I don't watch football religiously, drink Grain Belt or burp publicly etc and I don't care for stereotypes.

Respectfully, the thing with this, the problem is with the stereotyping of butches (burping etc) and for me the (intentional or not) characterization of ID's (asking male ID'd butches specifically, what it like to be emasculated as if the female ID'd couldn't know how it feels to have a person attempt that) and in even as subtly as in Ms Cyn's post with "If you are sad about the first thread being started by butches being MORE of the MASCULINE/male ID flavor"

Masculine slash male ID? Masculinity or butchness is not measured by how we individually choose to verbally ID ourselves, not to mention masculinity has many different faces (many of which are not male) and interpretations. I think it's extremely important in bridging the gaps between differently ID butches to understand this and not just haphazardly create these points of contention.

Lastly, sure some butches (of all ID's) are loud public burpers (again I am not), so are some grade school kids and nursing home residents... just what's the point of putting it in the opening post of a generalized butch thread (stereotype much?)

We do have so much in common experience as butches to (Bathroom story's anyone? Sir'd? Ma'am'd? Smamed?) I think if we just thought deeper and didn't immediately separate and stereotype things would go more smoothly.

Metro

P.S good post Jess, Tommi