only another butch would understand

[Jet]

The pain of hearing emasculating things from a woman because she's pissed. Is there anything more hurtful short of a breakup? *Opening a brewski waiting to see thoughts on this*

[I'mOneToo]

not sure which is worse, actually -- a femme or another butch doing that. when it happens it's like someone is trying to hurl the ultimate insult.

Originally Posted by Ol' Jet

The pain of hearing emasculating things from a woman because she's pissed. Is there anything more hurtful short of a breakup? *Opening a brewski waiting to see thoughts on this*

[Jet]

Originally Posted by i'monetoo

not sure which is worse, actually -- a femme or another butch doing that. When it happens it's like someone is trying to hurl the ultimate insult.

Exactly!.....

[atomiczombie]

The best thing in the whole wide world is a Femme who does understand.

[TROOPER]

Originally Posted by atomiczombie

The best thing in the whole wide world is a Femme who does understand.

BRAVO~~ Thanking the Heavens Above!!

[Jett]

Originally Posted by Ol' Jet

The pain of being emasculated by a woman because she's pissed. Is there anything more hurtful short of a breakup? *Opening a brewski waiting to see thoughts on this*

Although you stated your query was directed to the "male identified" of which I'm not... just a thought. Someone may try to emasculate a butch (either male or female ID etc. etc. etc.) but I don't believe they actually can do this without said butch allowing it.

In other words, no one can emasculate me... though they may try and it isn't pleasant I'd guess... but IMO it only reflects back on their own short comings.


Anyway good thread Dean Thoreau... though I'm not much of a burper.

[Jet]

Originally Posted by Metropolis

A thought from a butch who's not "male identified" what-ever it be worth to your query Jet... someone may try to emasculate a butch (either male or female ID etc. etc. etc.) but I don't believe they actually can do this without said butch allowing it.

In other words, no one can emasculate me... though they may try and it isn't pleasant I'd guess... but it only reflects back on their own short comings.


Anyway good tread Dean Thoreau... though I'm not much of a burper.

I get it totally. Its not so much the words, it's that it negates everything you thought she understood. It's a trust issue or as though she lied and never thought you as her butch. Otherwise why would she do that?

[BullDog]

Well I don't burp much, am not male identified, and don't have a huge concern about anyone trying to emasculate me, but howdy to all the butches in the Butch Zone.

[Jett]

Originally Posted by BullDog

Well I don't burp much, am not male identified, and don't have a huge concern about anyone trying to emasculate me, but howdy to all the butches in the Butch Zone.

Hey Bully!

[BullDog]

Hey Metro, great to see you!

[Jett]

Originally Posted by BullDog

Hey Metro, great to see you!

Likewise *thumbs up*

[Dean Thoreau]

Ok to me the only way anyone is going to emascualte me is if I allow them to.
And easiest way to allow it is by letting them know saying stupid shit bothers me.

I just ignore the comments...cause I know the person making the comment is:
1. looking for a argument
2. wants to be a bitch
3. feeling wounded cause i did somethin stupid; or someone within a 2000 mile radius did and the person is desiring to boost their ego by saying stupid crap to me
4. an insensitive idiot that doesnt have a clue
5. ignorant
6. an asshole
7. all of the above

And bluntly none of the above have the power to shake my masculinity/butchness/ sense of self....and If i am dating/married/ involved with a person like that....I am the asshole.

at my age,,gas happens..be thankful it was a burp!

Anyone else get annoyed by the "butch sterotype" handy? likes power tools? can fix things?
Fine I burp but..I cant fix things..i dont like being thought of as the person that can fix the door, the light switch, or the one who wants to go up the ladder and clean the leaves from the gutters.
I now have tools..all sorts...that out of necessity I have had to buy because once in a while I get this brainstorm of an idea to build something. But that does not mean I know how to fix or repair things in the house.....like....toilets, sinks, or cars..... My Diva's are convinced if they call me it will magically be fixed... not sure why cause my response is usually.....looks broekn to me......... then I say call the repair person, the mechanic, the tow truck, the plumber, the elctrician....

[Admin]

Originally Posted by Dean Thoreau

Ok to me the only way anyone is going to emascualte me is if I allow them to.
And easiest way to allow it is by letting them know saying stupid shit bothers me.

I just ignore the comments...cause I know the person making the comment is:
1. looking for a argument
2. wants to be a bitch
3. feeling wounded cause i did somethin stupid; or someone within a 2000 mile radius did and the person is desiring to boost their ego by saying stupid crap to me
4. an insensitive idiot that doesnt have a clue
5. ignorant
6. an asshole
7. all of the above

And bluntly none of the above have the power to shake my masculinity/butchness/ sense of self....and If i am dating/married/ involved with a person like that....I am the asshole.

at my age,,gas happens..be thankful it was a burp!

Hey Dean,

I get what you are saying about how you feel like nobody can emasculate you. That is great for you.

What comments like "only a Butch would understand" and the subsequent examples of "burping or farting" do is create an atmosphere that is hostile and unwelcoming to folks who do not embrace the binary. It also can feel gross to have these stereotypes heralded as "the way" in a Queer space. I want to ask you to please do some thinking around this.

As far as saying that someone is making comments to "be a bitch".

This is a very sexist and unwelcoming comment. The word "bitch" is often used in a sexist way to silence women and is unacceptable in that use on this website. You may be comfortable with this verbiage and you are most welcome to use that verbiage in your daily life in your own home but it is not welcome on this site.

I want you to feel welcome here as a member but we have already received numerous reports over things you have posted in other areas. I am asking you as the Administrator to please do some hard thinking about the way you are interacting with the members here.

While I am not asking you to change the way you think, I am asking you to at least give some thought to how what you say makes other people feel.

We do not want to create a site where posturing, hierarchies, sexism, or ignorance is the norm...nor do we want members to feel that their own gender identities or ways of being are being mocked, "othered", or dismissed.

Again, please take some time to do some hard thinking around this issue and take the initiative to make sure that your words are welcoming and inclusive of all ways of being.

Thanks,
Admin

[Jet]

Originally Posted by Dean Thoreau

...cause I know the person making the comment is:
1. looking for a argument
2. wants to be a bitch
3. feeling wounded cause i did somethin stupid; or someone within a 2000 mile radius did and the person is desiring to boost their ego by saying stupid crap to me
4. an insensitive idiot that doesnt have a clue
5. ignorant
6. an asshole
7. all of the above

well, needless to say we split, not because of her comments, but because of all the above. I'm male ID'd and transgendered and if she didn't get that in the first placed she shouldn't have let on. It's water under the bridge now, but I'm not the only one who has gone through this. I look at as a low blow and unnessessary. It didn't negate my maleness, it annihlated (sp) my trust. How could some I loved deliver a cheap shot like that...i'm not an asshole for being involved with her, just really stupid.

[Jett]

Originally Posted by Ol' Jet

I get it totally. Its not so much the words, it's that it negates everything you thought she understood. It's a trust issue or as though she lied and never thought you as her butch. Otherwise why would she do that?

Right... it's a low blow and from one who should support you the most... pretty ugly. Unfortunately when peeps get pissed, some resort to the nasty stuff.

Live and learn I guess and hopefully so will they eventually...

[sharkchomp]

Originally Posted by Ol' Jet

The pain of hearing emasculating things from a woman because she's pissed. Is there anything more hurtful short of a breakup? *Opening a brewski waiting to see thoughts on this*

I totally get what you're saying Jet! It's the loss of trust from someone who once said 'I get YOU'. For me, it's not insulting it's more of a betrayal. It doesn't take anything away from who I am but it surely can sting because I care/cared for that person.

~~~shark~~~~~~~~

[Kast]

Originally Posted by Ol' Jet

The pain of hearing emasculating things from a woman because she's pissed. Is there anything more hurtful short of a breakup? *Opening a brewski waiting to see thoughts on this*

Jet - I think part of what it is ... is human psychology. During our courtship our women learn what it is that drives us, inspires us, what are pleasures are, our intimate thoughts, our favorite movies, music, food to eat... and so forth. When it come to the nastiness of a bad argument or break-up, some of them start pushing buttons, they find the thing that insults, shocks, tears us down, etc. the most - and go for the jugular vein...

[Rook]

=unabashedly Burps...Loud, when in company of Close-knit family/friends only...highly amusing...=

*Sneezes hard...covered mouth of course, if the loudness annoys, tough, I cant control that any more than u can control an open mouth Yawn when exhausted..=

= Passes Gas...Yup...I do make sure when appropriate, to TRY and leave the "busy" area...If I hold, I get the stomach cramps, not u..=

Only my immediate relatives are allowed to freely use my Birth name....
Anyone else will get a home-brewed Glare and Correction to use my Legal name...if it persists, I am not responsible for my smart-ass'd cynical/asshole redhead temper.....

= TransMasculine identified stone Butch, Loving this thread=

[Jess]

Personally, I think part of the "things only a butch would understand" is that knowing how to be "handy" and fix things, use tools, learn which tools to buy and which will make your life/ task easier... Does not come at birth!

Generally speaking, most of the butches/ women I know had at least one brother to whom their Dad's "taught" helpful junk to. Fixing cars/ toilets, etc. and as adults, we learned to hate that because we became reliant upon the service industry to do even the simplest repairs/ maintenance tasks.

What this butch understands is that even though my Dad didn't teach me and I spent years waiting and paying for repairs was that I could learn and it was actually pretty cool to do so. Some projects are fraught with frustration "while" I learn, but the end result of being able to do something "handy" for myself kicks ass! Burp! HOO RAH! ~scuse me~

The flip side of this process of tool discovery is the new category of superhero it places me into. I don't think of most butches I know as stereotypical anything. They are doctors, lawyers, chefs, teachers, mechanics, accountants who can or cannot burp , fart, or do floral arrangements with an uncanny grace that is neither masculine or feminine , it is moreover a reflection of confidence and care for the task at hand.

What I do feel pretty certain that all butches might understand is our own need to be exactly whom we are with all of the differences ( often from one another) that that may mean. I identify very strongly with my more masculine traits, however being born in this body and being seen and raised as a "girl" created a strong sense of seeking my own truths. It is just a guess on my part that many ( if not most) butches feel a very deep sense or need ( maybe urgency) to ID ourselves rather than have "any" stereotypes.

I do have an inner "pig" who loves to commandeer the remote, guzzle a brew, and make passionate armchair commentary while watching Hells' Kitchen. ( How many thought I was gonna say football? heh.. gotcha!) I also have a deep desire to make my girls home her sanctuary filling each back breaking chore with love.

I am very interested to see how conversations like this will go in this new space. I sincerely try not to be a shit stirrer and try to see things as an opportunity for me to perhaps expand the way I see the world and myself.

Thanks for some early morning brain candy.. to everyone who has shared!

I do have a things only butches would understand situation that I may get brave enough ( or stupid enough ) to share.. but I will give it a bit to see if this is the right place to do it... LOL!

Again, Thanks a heap folks!
Jess

[Darth Denkay]

Hi all!

I'm going to use this portion of Jess's post as a jumping off point...maybe I should ask first...nah, it's all good.

I absolutely agree with the statement that being a happy handyman does not come at birth. I'm going to take it a step farther and add that sometimes it never comes (not implying that you indicated that it did). I've got a small tool box with your basic set of tools. I can do minor repairs around the house but I'm not going to try anything that's too difficult. Usually if something needs to be fixed I look it up online, see if it looks do-able, and if not I'm calling the repair guy.

It does occur to me that as an adult I have generally always rented, meaning I don't have to pay for repairs. One of these days when I buy again, that might be motivation to try and pick up more skills. Then again, maybe it won't.

Same thing with my car - I can do the basic maintenance but I've got a great mechanic for anything beyond that.

Speaking of cars, I've noticed that my straight guy friends seem to go with the stereotype that I give a shit about cars. We'll be driving around and they're talking about models and years and such - I'm politely nodding my head but really couldn't care less. I can't identify a car until I'm close enough to see the model written on the back. It's just something I'm not interested in.

I was talking to a butch friend a while back and he was concerned because he felt as though because he's a butch he should be a happy handyman in order to take care of his partner. I pointed out that some partners are quite capable of taking care of home maintenance. Beyond that though, just because I may not do the repairs with my own hands doesn't mean I'm not taking care of my partner. I'm not good with my hands (well, at least in that way )but I know who to call when something comes up.

I've got a fairly unrelated question as to how butches prefer to be referred to (knowing that this is personal preference, there is no single answer. We know that within our butch ranks we have female-identified, male-identified, other-identified; those who prefer male pronouns, those who prefer female pronouns, and those who couldn't care less. One word I use frequently with butches is 'bro'. I'm assuming that male-identified would be fine with this, but does this term feel erasing to some? I'd love to hear your collective thoughts on this.

Originally Posted by SyrJess

Personally, I think part of the "things only a butch would understand" is that knowing how to be "handy" and fix things, use tools, learn which tools to buy and which will make your life/ task easier... Does not come at birth!

Generally speaking, most of the butches/ women I know had at least one brother to whom their Dad's "taught" helpful junk to. Fixing cars/ toilets, etc. and as adults, we learned to hate that because we became reliant upon the service industry to do even the simplest repairs/ maintenance tasks.

What this butch understands is that even though my Dad didn't teach me and I spent years waiting and paying for repairs was that I could learn and it was actually pretty cool to do so. Some projects are fraught with frustration "while" I learn, but the end result of being able to do something "handy" for myself kicks ass! Burp! HOO RAH! ~scuse me~


Jess