Amongst us butches ..

[Chazz]

Originally Posted by 1PlayfulFemme

....(does anyone find it interesting that "Feminize" is a word but "Masculanize" is not? And is my brain just too tired, or is there a better word out there??)

Both are neologisms, artifacts from patriarchy. Why the need to genderize compliments when a simple you look amazing, awesome, delicious, breathtaking, terrific, lovely, etc. would do, and do much better.

There is a difference between a compliment and reassurance.

[Quintease]

I don't understand gendered compliments or insults. To me, everyone is equally beautiful or a slut

[Heart]

Originally Posted by 1PlayfulFemme

She ids female, so Handsome didn't feel right with her. Beautiful wasn't gonna cut it for her esteem.

I know quite a few handsome women and beautiful butches. Yum.

[1PlayfulFemme]

I agree with all of the above, just simply stating that for my butch handsome nor beautiful were right.

[tapu]

Caution. Do not do this:

girlfriend: Does this skirt make my butt look fat?

me: No, your butt makes your butt look fat.

[Chazz]

Originally Posted by Heart

I know quite a few handsome women and beautiful butches. Yum.

Exactly.

Hiya Heart.... Your post made me think about how the use and misuse of language shapes our self-concept, and our understanding of ourselves in the world, in overt and covert ways.

Gender training starts at birth. A zillion old and new studies confirm that: Boy and girl babies are spoken to and treated differently, described TO themselves differently, by care givers and the world around them. This profoundly affects self-perception; our understanding of who we are in a gendered world.

I often wonder how I might have evolved had I not been tagged a "tomboy" in childhood. I suspect I would have been spared certain inorganic experiences and freed to explore others that were more organic to me.

We become unwitting (if not witting) agents of dominant culture constructs/values when we use it's language to describe ourselves and one another.

As always, thanks for the thought provoking post, Heart.

[intrigue_in916]

Originally Posted by Chazz

Have you asked her?

Has anyone ever just looked at your lover and said..." wow babe you really are a knock out or damn daddie your caliente!"

[intrigue_in916]

Originally Posted by Chazz

Exactly.

Hiya Heart.... Your post made me think about how the use and misuse of language shapes our self-concept, and our understanding of ourselves in the world, in overt and covert ways.

Gender training starts at birth. A zillion old and new studies confirm that: Boy and girl babies are spoken to and treated differently, described TO themselves differently, by care givers and the world around them. This profoundly affects self-perception; our understanding of who we are in a gendered world.

I often wonder how I might have evolved had I not been tagged a "tomboy" in childhood. I suspect I would have been spared certain inorganic experiences and freed to explore others that were more organic to me.

We become unwitting (if not witting) agents of dominant culture constructs/values when we use it's language to describe ourselves and one another.

As always, thanks for the thought provoking post, Heart.

SEXY isnt just a femme thing, because I know hot sexy butch women. However by that persons own definition of their sexuality, some ppl arent comfortable with some nouns or pro~nouns,that others may 'SAY' to describe who they see. All we have to say is ...im not comfortable when you call me ... or say to me, whatver it is your not comfy with. Does that make sense, to anyone, but me? cuz now I feel kinda dorky But with an opinion.

[intrigue_in916]

Originally Posted by tapu

Caution. Do not do this:

girlfriend: Does this skirt make my butt look fat?

me: No, your butt makes your butt look fat.

OM FLIPPIN G!!!

[Chazz]

Hi, Intrigue_in916

Thank you for the discourse. And, thanks for giving me an opportunity to speak to something that has been on my mind, though it's not directed at you, per se.

Originally Posted by intrigue_in916

SEXY isnt just a femme thing, because I know hot sexy butch women. However by that persons own definition of their sexuality, some ppl arent comfortable with some nouns or pro~nouns,that others may 'SAY' to describe who they see. All we have to say is ...im not comfortable when you call me ... or say to me, whatver it is your not comfy with. Does that make sense, to anyone, but me? cuz now I feel kinda dorky But with an opinion.

Yes to this, sorta.

FOR ME, the pronoun dilemma is a symptom of a false presence-absence dichotomy - a byproduct of Western logocentrical thought, linguistics, and representation.

Terms like good/bad, white/black, male/female, him/her (ad infinitum) were coined to denote "binary opposition". It is a long, established fact that Westerners (like us) think and speak in oppositions.

Butches like me make a lie of binary oppositions; in this case, the binary opposition of gender constructs.

Feminism, post-colonialism, post-anarchism, and critical race theory argue that binary dichotomies perpetuate and legitimize Western power structures that place "civilized" white men at the top of contrived hierarchies.

Post-structural (not post-modern) butches like me are not interested in a reversal of binary constructs, but their deconstruction.

I don't care that this is not necessarily so for all butches. I do care that it's true for butches like me. Not to assert this is to render myself, and those like me, invisible.

I'm not masculine or feminine, I'm Butch. My definition of Butch need not comport with anyone else's.



(I'm not comfortable with the term "Two-Spirited" because it feels like cultural appropriation FOR ME.)

[justanolecowboy]

I happen to be of the opinion that all femme women are beautiful ---femmes are amazing - beautiful - intriquing- sexy - captivating women -which is why we butches love them - right? - So it is for us to compliment them before they should need to ask - unless they are asking in that playful teasing way - that only they know how to ask?

However like others have posted I don't just think it is across the board not just femmes - we seem to have a hard time accepting compliments sometimes or off put someone who does - a simple smile or thank you is all that is needed - to rebuff someones genuine compliment is to take away their (blessing) so to speak.

We all need to compliment each other more - butches and femmes alike - and not just about clothing - but the way perhaps she smiles or how her eyes twinkle when she sees you or the shy way she slowly takes your hand - or perhaps how boldly and passionately she kisses you in public - just because - or the way she tosses her head back and laughs - that is just so amazing - lots of ways to compliment ---my advice --take notice of them all!

[Dude]

Originally Posted by Inked_Trinity

A femme always needs reassuring, it's not that she doesn't believe you....she just needs to know that she is still hot in your eyes.

I realize this was posted a month ago but "A femme always needs reassuring"
is along the same lines as " butch's (and/or any gender id here) always need their ego stroked".

Both make me feel queezy and I'm surprised I'm the first to say anything.

True confidence to me, is an inside job.
Not to mention, "always needs reassuring" makes femme's sound weak ,frail, insecure ,brainless and quite exhausting to be with or around.

I hate the premise that any of us people here, are all the same.
The If you've done one, you've done them all mentality get's my goat
every time I see it.
I'm so not an expert on all things femme because fortunately they are all so different and that in itself is THE MOST fascinating thing (to me)

[Chazz]

Confident or not, we all need reassuring.

It's an inside job.

[CherylNYC]

Originally Posted by Dude

I realize this was posted a month ago but "A femme always needs reassuring"
is along the same lines as " butch's (and/or any gender id here) always need their ego stroked".

Both make me feel queezy and I'm surprised I'm the first to say anything.

True confidence to me, is an inside job.
Not to mention, "always needs reassuring" makes femme's sound weak ,frail, insecure ,brainless and quite exhausting to be with or around.

I hate the premise that any of us people here, are all the same.
The If you've done one, you've done them all mentality get's my goat
every time I see it.
I'm so not an expert on all things femme because fortunately they are all so different and that in itself is THE MOST fascinating thing (to me)

Thanks, Dude. I don't know how I missed that quote, and I really appreciate you pointing it out and writing such a great response.

[Red Dirt Girl]

Now that is a simple, brilliant assessment of the situation.

Originally Posted by Guy

My experience with this topic is that anyone, wether butch, femme, allien, etc, would much rather be complimented before they ask

[Red Dirt Girl]

You were maybe the first one to say anything b/c I only now stumbeled upon this thread. I must agree, I was pretty icked-out at the notion that "a femme always needs reassuring". I don't mean to personally criticize the OP, but IMO, that statement was rather a gigantic generalization, and not a very favorable one (although I don't necessarily think that was the intent of the OP). Just my two cents.

Now tell me you love me and that I'm pretty. ("Prettiest" would be even better ...)

Originally Posted by Dude

I realize this was posted a month ago but "A femme always needs reassuring"
is along the same lines as " butch's (and/or any gender id here) always need their ego stroked".

Both make me feel queezy and I'm surprised I'm the first to say anything.

True confidence to me, is an inside job.
Not to mention, "always needs reassuring" makes femme's sound weak ,frail, insecure ,brainless and quite exhausting to be with or around.

I hate the premise that any of us people here, are all the same.
The If you've done one, you've done them all mentality get's my goat
every time I see it.
I'm so not an expert on all things femme because fortunately they are all so different and that in itself is THE MOST fascinating thing (to me)

[Hack]

When in a relationship, my girl is told she looks amazing/stunning/hot/beautiful/sexy/gorgeous in her favorite little black dress, jeans and a t-shirt, in her work wear, wearing one of my dress shirts, in her pajamas, in my pajamas, in shorts, in whatever. Clothes don't make the girl. Everything else does.

Jake

[LaneyDoll]

Originally Posted by Chazz

Confident or not, we all need reassuring.

It's an inside job.

If you asked 20 people at my club, "who is the most confident person here" your replies would EXCLUSIVELY be "Laney" or "A" who is my best friend.

But having the appearance of confidence does not mean that I am not having a bad day b/c of work/illness/traffic or a myriad of other reasons. And when the world gets to be overwhelming, a kind compliment-especially a unique one is much appreciated. Even confident people like to hear that someone admires a certain quality about them, especially when that person is someone whose opinion we value OR when it is a complete stranger.

I went out a few years ago with a platonic friend of mine. We went to the local alt bar AFTER the party at the dungeon. It was easily 2 in the morning. But, as we were waiting to get in, she peered at me and said "your eyes look like works of art." She did not have to say that but she did and, despite her moving away, she will always have a special place in my heart.

About a year prior to that, a woman ahead of me in post-Christmas returns line at Wal-mart (a place that I hate by the way) made my night with a compliment. She told me that my eyes look like polished glass or gemstones. She took a stressful/tiring situation & turned it into a fond memory.

Never doubt the power of a compliment.

[Dominique]

Ya know....just as we ask the gentlemen to respect our femme space....

we should respect the Butch space. I'm not trying to be thread police

BUT, it is marked BUTCH zone and alot of us ladies are in here telling our

Butches what they should be talking about. Fair is fair.....just saying!

[Red Dirt Girl]

If I read it correctly, I'm pretty sure that Merlin (OP) welcomed input from femmes. (post #2)

Originally Posted by Yellow band

Ya know....just as we ask the gentlemen to respect our femme space....

we should respect the Butch space. I'm not trying to be thread police

BUT, it is marked BUTCH zone and alot of us ladies are in here telling our

Butches what they should be talking about. Fair is fair.....just saying!