Some labels do not include trans in the definition

[little man]

Originally Posted by adorable

I disagree. I think that IF they're outsides matched their insides they would be identifying to the world they were a man. And not only is it something they dream about, fantasize about and hope for - it can be all consuming. It is very real for them. It is very frustrating and my impression is they do think about it all the time.

Within our "subgroup" as you call it the most frustrating thing is not being able to celebrate being a man. To do that can be seen as msyoginistic. The acceptance is limited in a "yeah, yeah ok you're a man don't throw it in our face" kind of way. Being a man is not what some people feel on the inside - so rather then accept that some people do - they are quick to dismiss the realness and excitement of another's core being.

What does happen at the grocery store, at the zoo, in the shower, waiting for the bus, applying for a job - is they are reminded constantly of how the world sees them which is not how they feel. I see that is a sad sort of hell.

(I disagree with your taking your experience for others - not your experience if that makes sense. I don't see that as the experience for many female bodied men.)

adorable, i'm not sure what it is you're disagreeing with. is it that you think most people in the world (yes, that would be the larger, straight world) spend time considering gender presentation and the ramifications of being misaligned with one's body?

do you disagree that because i look like a man, i'm assumed to be one...complete with shared socialization and experiences as other bio-men understand them?

i am 7 years or so into transition. i've been on T that long. i am still pre-op, so still female bodied. are you assuming that i've forgotten the disparity between my physicality and my interior life? the shower is a very different scenario for me than going to work or the grocery store.

a point that i didn't make (and perhaps should have been clearer on) is that people are generally lazy in their identification of others. if it looks like a man, then it must be one. before i started T, i passed part of the time as male. once the secondary sex traits kicked in, it was way more often than that. finally, once i picked up on social cues and what i was "expected" to do, it got to be full time. i do understand the frustration of feeling one way and looking another. that's why i undertook the great mindfuck that is transitioning.

i don't expect that everyone's experience is the same. i think that was an assumption on your part. i have been in the pre-transition position, the beginning of transition position, and now in the midst of it. please don't assume that i've forgotten any step of this long process...it is indelibly etched upon my soul. i remember the places and the people i've been before today.