Ask a trans person!

[The Oopster]

http://travel.state.gov/passport/npic/npic_898.html

maybe try calling them?

[TCB]

Originally Posted by The Oopster

http://travel.state.gov/passport/npic/npic_898.html

maybe try calling them?

Well I'm going to have to tomorrow. I was just curious if anybody knew off hand.

[Thinker]

Originally Posted by TCB

Thanks for that link Koop. I'm not really sure how to read into that, but I think when I see my Doctor next week, I'm going to touch on the subject again and see if he's interested in looking into it. It's worth a shot!

Off topic:

I need to get my passport by mid July. I know there are expediting services but here's my dilemma...wondering if anybody knows the answer to this:

My new name has been legally changed on my drivers license (including my gender marker on ID) and SS. However, my birth certificate has NOT been changed (name and gender). Will they be able to issue me a passport due to this discrepancy?
I called the post office and asked them. One person told me they can put it through assuming I have my court ordered name change forms (which I do).
But I hate to go on one post office attendants word.
Anyone have any knowledge or experience with this?

When I went to get my updated passport, I turned in my old passport which had my former legal name and sex designation. I submitted a certified copy of the court order for the name change and the doctor's letter for the sex designation. (I also showed my state ID which had already been updated with both.)

Based on that, my assumption is that the name change will not be an issue; and you will need the doctor's letter for the change of sex.

If this is your first passport, you will need to submit your birth certificate. Your court order for name change will trump the name on the birth certificate, however.

Does that make sense?

[TCB]

Originally Posted by Thinker

When I went to get my updated passport, I turned in my old passport which had my former legal name and sex designation. I submitted a certified copy of the court order for the name change and the doctor's letter for the sex designation. (I also showed my state ID which had already been updated with both.)

Based on that, my assumption is that the name change will not be an issue; and you will need the doctor's letter for the change of sex.

If this is your first passport, you will need to submit your birth certificate. Your court order for name change will trump the name on the birth certificate, however.

Does that make sense?

Thinker,
This is my first passport. I went and picked up a certified copy of my original birth certificate at the vital statistics office.
So you're saying that since I have the court ordered name change documentation, that should be sufficient for them to change it on my passport? I know I need to have it changed on my birth certificate, but the postal passport worker told me that they would likely issue me a temporary passport (1-2 yrs) while I submit my name change for my birth certificate, due to that process taking 6 months-1 yr (according to the clerk at vital statistics).
I'm just hoping that I can at least get the passport with my new legal name, I'll have to get a Dr. letter for the gender marker on my passport and for it to all go without a hitch! I'm staying optimistic!

[Thinker]

Originally Posted by TCB

Thinker,
This is my first passport. I went and picked up a certified copy of my original birth certificate at the vital statistics office.
So you're saying that since I have the court ordered name change documentation, that should be sufficient for them to change it on my passport? I know I need to have it changed on my birth certificate, but the postal passport worker told me that they would likely issue me a temporary passport (1-2 yrs) while I submit my name change for my birth certificate, due to that process taking 6 months-1 yr (according to the clerk at vital statistics).
I'm just hoping that I can at least get the passport with my new legal name, I'll have to get a Dr. letter for the gender marker on my passport and for it to all go without a hitch! I'm staying optimistic!

I think you'll be good for getting your legal name on the passport. Your birth certificate is required since this is your first passport, and the court order for your name change shows that the person named on the birth certificate is now legally named TCB.

Good luck with it! Let us know how it goes.

[greeneyedgrrl]

Originally Posted by Greyson

In my profile I use the I.D. Transmasculine Butch. In other instances I also refer to myself as a Transman, Transguy.

this is a new id for me... would you mind explaining what it means to you? i could guess... but no guarantees i'd be right!
thanks in advance!

[greeneyedgrrl]

Originally Posted by atomiczombie

I feel invisible. It's painful.

i can definitely identify with that! i am invisible in the queer community as well as the hetero community.

Originally Posted by atomiczombie

That being said, I worry about how I will be perceived after transition. Will I be shunned but the queer community as no longer being part of the tribe? Will femmes no longer be interested? Will my queerness be invisible? I don't consider myself straight- no because I am attracted to masculine people. I am not. But because I am attracted to femmes. Femmes aren't straight women. I have little interest in straight women. Does that make me a jerk? I hope not. But will I trade being seen as a female for no longer being seen as queer when I go on T?? What is your experiences guys? Do any of you feel the same?

i think all this depends on where you are and who you are interacting with. i hope that the queer community is are evolved enough that you find acceptance more often than not. i know we have both here, althugh i like to think we are moving in a trans-positive direction. and no i don't think it makes you a jerk...we can't help who we're attracted to.. but (being a queer femme) maybe i'm biased!

[TCB]

Originally Posted by Thinker

I think you'll be good for getting your legal name on the passport. Your birth certificate is required since this is your first passport, and the court order for your name change shows that the person named on the birth certificate is now legally named TCB.

Good luck with it! Let us know how it goes.

Thank You, I'll let you know how it turned out. Hopefully pain free

[greeneyedgrrl]

Originally Posted by Bit

I have a question. Lately when Nick and Gryph and I have been out in public, it has seemed to me that people have been going out of their way to call us "ladies."

Now if you've known me for a while, you already know that it makes me uncomfortable to be called "lady" because, after all, that's my dog's name... well, okay, really it's because of the stereotypical crap I was force-fed growing up about a lady is always quiet and demure and never laughs out loud (I cannot stop laughing when something is funny), a lady never shows the least hint of temper (I cuss like a sailor! sheesh), a lady never sweats (omgawd, in PHOENIX? seriously?! Are you insane?!)---but when I am out with a transman who is wearing a dress shirt and tie, someone who does not even LOOK female, and people go out of their way to call us ladies.... well it just makes me cringe!

I suppose one of the big cringe factors is their attitude; they are quite obviously going out of their way to be extra nice and to reassure us all that "they can tell [the transman] is actually really female, no worries, we accept you as a girl, we aren't going to embarrass you by not noticing your femaleness" omg it just makes me CRINGE....

So anyhow, here's my question. Does this happen to you in your area, or is it just the Midwest US; and if it does happen where you are, does it happen to you more when you are with a Femme than if you are alone?

I would ask Nick directly, but yanno he and Gryph are off shooting paper people dead and I don't want to forget the question---so hey, Nick, would you mind answering too? Do you get this treatment more when I'm with you?

Thanks in advance for your answers, everyone. I appreciate your time.

this is interesting to me... i have had the exact opposite experience. often when i am out in public here with very masculine butch women/females, (who btw prefer feminine pronouns), people go out of their way to call them sir. one of the women has very large breasts (i dunno how anyone could miss them)! in these cases do you think it's intentional use of the wrong pronoun? or do you think that they're trying to be sensitive and just aren't able to see the difference? blind? ig'nant? thoughts?

[Thinker]

Originally Posted by greeneyedgrrl

this is interesting to me... i have had the exact opposite experience. often when i am out in public here with very masculine butch women/females, (who btw prefer feminine pronouns), people go out of their way to call them sir. one of the women has very large breasts (i dunno how anyone could miss them)! in these cases do you think it's intentional use of the wrong pronoun? or do you think that they're trying to be sensitive and just aren't able to see the difference? blind? ig'nant? thoughts?

I believe there is an honest-to-goodness mix of people who do those things.

I believe there are some who feel your ID must be that of the masculine....maybe even male.....and they are wanting to "have your back" and let you know they see you and they get it.

I believe there are some who are being a-holes and trying to cut at you.

And I believe there are some who are real "surface-y" with that stuff. His/her mind registered "male" so they went with "sir" and now they're on to the next thing.

There's no way of knowing for sure what one individual means by it at any given time, IMO.

[Linus]

Welp. Went for my 2 week visit. The nipple grafts seemed to have worked and being hairy did not help. Dr. V removed my tape from across my scars and pulled all the hair as well That said, he said I should be able to toss the ace bandage in a week (at most but possibly before then). I'll have the "skin coloured" tape on my scars for 3-4 months but could be "shirtless by next week!

He also said I could start running in about 3 weeks (I assume weight lifting would be a couple of weeks after that). Either way...

W00T!!!!

[Gemme]

Originally Posted by greeneyedgrrl

this is interesting to me... i have had the exact opposite experience. often when i am out in public here with very masculine butch women/females, (who btw prefer feminine pronouns), people go out of their way to call them sir. one of the women has very large breasts (i dunno how anyone could miss them)! in these cases do you think it's intentional use of the wrong pronoun? or do you think that they're trying to be sensitive and just aren't able to see the difference? blind? ig'nant? thoughts?

That's not our experience here in central Texas. We are often called 'ladies' or 'girls' and it really grates my nerves.

[Soon]

Originally Posted by Gemme

That's not our experience here in central Texas. We are often called 'ladies' or 'girls' and it really grates my nerves.

Before my husband transitioned, we had the same experience as Gemme in Central Florida and SW Ontario. Mostly the term *ladies*...not a fan of that word in general but especially hated it when we were out together for obvious reasons.

[Thinker]

Originally Posted by Gemme

That's not our experience here in central Texas. We are often called 'ladies' or 'girls' and it really grates my nerves.

And it seems most of the time that people in areas like yours are doing it as a "favor"........to say, "Hey, I see you and I'm hip to all this." Would you agree? Or do you think they're being shitty for the most part?

[Gemme]

Originally Posted by Thinker

And it seems most of the time that people in areas like yours are doing it as a "favor"........to say, "Hey, I see you and I'm hip to all this." Would you agree? Or do you think they're being shitty for the most part?

I do agree and I do appreciate someone making an attempt to be a part of the solution rather than a part of the problem but it feels like it's like 'see how open minded and awesome I am?' instead of considering the dress, style and mannerisms of the person before you. I know it's hard to decipher gender presentation and that the wrapping, in many cases, does not determine what's in the box but how hard would it be to just cut that one word off? They could still acknowledge us by just saying 'how may I help you?" or 'do you have any further questions?' and leave it at that.

[atomiczombie]

Originally Posted by Thinker

And it seems most of the time that people in areas like yours are doing it as a "favor"........to say, "Hey, I see you and I'm hip to all this." Would you agree? Or do you think they're being shitty for the most part?

Here in California and especially in the Bay Area, people do make an effort to say ladies and ma'am and such, and I do think it's because they are trying to acknowledge me in a positive way. However, it is annoying. I can see how it is hard for not only straight people, but I have seen this with some queer folks too, to get the pronouns right. I look like a butch, not a man at this point. There are many butches who don't want to be called sir. So I can see how it can be confusing for some female-bodied masculine folks to say, "hey I'm not a sir", and people like me saying, "um, it's sir not lady". I try to be aware that a lot of people have the best of intentions when getting it wrong about my gender identity.

[greeneyedgrrl]

Originally Posted by atomiczombie

Here in California and especially in the Bay Area, people do make an effort to say ladies and ma'am and such, and I do think it's because they are trying to acknowledge me in a positive way. However, it is annoying. I can see how it is hard for not only straight people, but I have seen this with some queer folks too, to get the pronouns right. I look like a butch, not a man at this point. There are many butches who don't want to be called sir. So I can see how it can be confusing for some female-bodied masculine folks to say, "hey I'm not a sir", and people like me saying, "um, it's sir not lady". I try to be aware that a lot of people have the best of intentions when getting it wrong about my gender identity.

hmmm... i'm in south bay... and we have a lot of butches here, or we used to anyway (our genderqueer and trans pops seem to be growing/becoming more visible and b/f pops shrinking/becoming less visible). the butches i referred to earlier, aren't binding and they get "sir" when we go out. it's like the gen pop see the short hair and masculine dress and look no further. i like the idea of just leaving the pronouns out entirely. especially since sometimes it is hard to tell and isn't always appropriate to ask.

[Star Anise]

When I officially "came out" my first "girlfriend", I use quotation marks because as it turns out he was actually trans, I had absolutely no idea about his gender dysphoria and was generally clueless.

It is a real shame because I know now, in my complete ignorance I probably made his experience much worse, which I feel much grief about still. I have gone out of my way to educate myself through online sources, blogs, youtube (which I have already mentioned in another thread has a wonderful trans community) academic discourse...basically any source I could get my hands on...But I am still very conscious of the fact that it is not a "one size fits all" case.

He was the first and only trans guy that I have been with and it didn't work so well...

Where I am, there is a small trans community, and I know that I have felt myself attracted to a few trans guys, and to be frank I would hate to miss out on an opportunity to have a special relationship with someone that happens to be trans...

But the thing is, I am just so damn scared of putting my foot in it, because though I have tried hard to become more educated, I am not trans myself.

which leads me to my squeamish question...

How do you recommend opening up this sort of communication?

As in, this is somewhat new to me, and I am not sure that I will totally understand your experience, but I appreciate who you are and I don't want to hurt or patronise you?

I hear complaints from the trans community about cisgendered people just being a pain in the ass, I really don't want to be one those people

Actually any advice would be appreciated.

Thank you in advance.

[Liam]

Originally Posted by Star Anise

Where I am, there is a small trans community, and I know that I have felt myself attracted to a few trans guys, and to be frank I would hate to miss out on an opportunity to have a special relationship with someone that happens to be trans...

But the thing is, I am just so damn scared of putting my foot in it, because though I have tried hard to become more educated, I am not trans myself.

which leads me to my squeamish question...

How do you recommend opening up this sort of communication?

As in, this is somewhat new to me, and I am not sure that I will totally understand your experience, but I appreciate who you are and I don't want to hurt or patronise you?

I think its important to establish a friendly interest in someone, before asking questions related to being a transperson, unless you are attending some kind of panel and the audience has been invited to ask questions. While I prefer the direct, to the point questions, when fielding such questions from someone I don't know, I wonder if they consider me a freak or if they have a fetish—and I'm not inclined to be very vulnerable. Have you read The Testosterone Files, by Max Wolf Valerio, Both Sides Now, by Dhillon Khosla, or Just Add Hormones, by Matt Kailey? Perhaps a question relating to one of these books, would be a good way to open a conversation with someone.

This forum is also a good venue to ask questions and gather info from other people's posts.

[atomiczombie]

Originally Posted by Star Anise

When I officially "came out" my first "girlfriend", I use quotation marks because as it turns out he was actually trans, I had absolutely no idea about his gender dysphoria and was generally clueless.

It is a real shame because I know now, in my complete ignorance I probably made his experience much worse, which I feel much grief about still. I have gone out of my way to educate myself through online sources, blogs, youtube (which I have already mentioned in another thread has a wonderful trans community) academic discourse...basically any source I could get my hands on...But I am still very conscious of the fact that it is not a "one size fits all" case.

He was the first and only trans guy that I have been with and it didn't work so well...

Where I am, there is a small trans community, and I know that I have felt myself attracted to a few trans guys, and to be frank I would hate to miss out on an opportunity to have a special relationship with someone that happens to be trans...

But the thing is, I am just so damn scared of putting my foot in it, because though I have tried hard to become more educated, I am not trans myself.

which leads me to my squeamish question...

How do you recommend opening up this sort of communication?

As in, this is somewhat new to me, and I am not sure that I will totally understand your experience, but I appreciate who you are and I don't want to hurt or patronise you?

I hear complaints from the trans community about cisgendered people just being a pain in the ass, I really don't want to be one those people

Actually any advice would be appreciated.

Thank you in advance.

As a transguy, I am always grateful when someone asks me my preferred pronoun. I am not at all adverse to someone asking me questions about my experience as a trans person. But I think Liam is correct: don't start asking questions as the first thing you talk about with him. However, if your questions are respectful, then it shouldn't be an issue. Saying "this is somewhat new to me, and I am not sure that I will totally understand your experience, but I appreciate who you are and I don't want to hurt or patronise you" is actually perfect. That is being respectful. I hope this helps.