Forgiveness

[Nat]

I ran across this today - thought I'd share:

"There are three aspects to the Buddhist idea of patience: patience-persistence, patience-under-insult and acceptance-of-truth.

The fourth is forgiveness...which in the Buddhist context is based more on Karma - the causal chain that's put into effect by your behavior. With karma, there is no external force or person or being that can intervene with your karma. There's nobody else responsible for your karma but you. So the idea of forgiveness of someone else is not as important as it is for you to do your own work.

What forgiveness is really tied to in this context is releasing our anger we have toward others.

When I forgive you, I am no longer going to hold anger toward you. I can't free you from your karma, you're still going to have to work this out for yourself in some way, but you know now I'm a safe person for you. I'm no longer going to hold my anger against you and make things difficult.

One of the reason's it's so powerful to release our anger toward other people is that a healthy way to change the course of our own karma is to not hold onto anger."

Gil Fronsdal, Audio Dharma podcast

[Chancie]

I forgive you.

[BullDog]

If someone genuinely asks for my forgiveness then there is a very high chance I will forgive. Things may not be the same between us- for example if someone cheated on me- but I can acknowledge their genuineness and sincerity. People do make mistakes all the time. I know I do. When this happens I do my best to apologize and learn from my mistakes.

In the case of someone treating me in an abusive, very hurtful, manipulative or some other unhealthy manner, those people don't tend to be asking for forgiveness so I am not sure why I would need to expend energy trying to forgive them. For some it is a way of healing and moving forward. For me if I feel I have been wronged or am in an unhealthy situation, I need to figure out how to move forward and not let toxic people influence my life as much as possible. Forgiving someone doesn't really have much to do with it. I can't control how unhealthy people are going to treat me. I need to figure out how to heal and feel good about myself again. I need to learn from my mistakes and use better judgement of who I will let into my life.

[princessbelle]

The way i feel about forgiveness is this:

It is actually a gift i give to myself when i forgive others.

When i find that i want to forgive someone, it is not for them necessarily but for myself. It is the ease of the flow. I enjoy the positive of karma that it brings and the light out of the storm.

Sometimes it is done at the deepest levels and sometimes it is just a surface forgiveness, if that makes sense.

Either way it feels good and nurturing for myself, and that is always a healthy thing.

[JustJo]

Okay, so this may sound a little weird....but I don't believe in forgiveness. Not out of a "hanging onto anger" place, but just that I don't feel it's up to me. For me, saying "I forgive you" also implies, in a small way, that I have judged you and found you wanting.

When I have been hurt, I do my best to understand....understand what happened, understand my part in it, understand the other's part in it....and hopefully learn some lessons.

Then, I stick it all in a mental/emotional box, tie a ribbon around it, and stick it in a deep, dark closet in my head. It's still there....and I can revisit it if I must, or if I choose to.

Having said that....I grew up around angry, narcissistic, bullying people....and I never....ever....forget.

[spritzerJ]

Originally Posted by JustJo

Okay, so this may sound a little weird....but I don't believe in forgiveness. Not out of a "hanging onto anger" place, but just that I don't feel it's up to me. For me, saying "I forgive you" also implies, in a small way, that I have judged you and found you wanting.

When I have been hurt, I do my best to understand....understand what happened, understand my part in it, understand the other's part in it....and hopefully learn some lessons.

Then, I stick it all in a mental/emotional box, tie a ribbon around it, and stick it in a deep, dark closet in my head. It's still there....and I can revisit it if I must, or if I choose to.

Having said that....I grew up around angry, narcissistic, bullying people....and I never....ever....forget.

I don't forget either.
Forgiveness includes letting go of responsibility to fix it for others and myself. I made a mistake, acted badly, hurt someone. I repair and acknowledge what I can and can't fix.

[KayCee]

If something happened or was said that was really really hurtful that would need forgiveness but I can't ever forget, not even over time, no matter how much I try, then for me there is no forgiveness either.

[BullDog]

Originally Posted by BullDog

If someone genuinely asks for my forgiveness then there is a very high chance I will forgive. Things may not be the same between us- for example if someone cheated on me- but I can acknowledge their genuineness and sincerity. People do make mistakes all the time. I know I do. When this happens I do my best to apologize and learn from my mistakes.

In the case of someone treating me in an abusive, very hurtful, manipulative or some other unhealthy manner, those people don't tend to be asking for forgiveness so I am not sure why I would need to expend energy trying to forgive them. For some it is a way of healing and moving forward. For me if I feel I have been wronged or am in an unhealthy situation, I need to figure out how to move forward and not let toxic people influence my life as much as possible. Forgiving someone doesn't really have much to do with it. I can't control how unhealthy people are going to treat me. I need to figure out how to heal and feel good about myself again. I need to learn from my mistakes and use better judgement of who I will let into my life.

Yes, exactly. I posted this over 6 years ago and is how I feel today as well. Forgiveness is very much a beautiful thing, but if someone is not sorry for what they did or not genuinely seeking it, then for me there is no point. Better for me to just get on with my life and become as neutral about the situation as possible.

[cathexis]

Originally Posted by BullDog

Yes, exactly. I posted this over 6 years ago and is how I feel today as well. Forgiveness is very much a beautiful thing, but if someone is not sorry for what they did or not genuinely seeking it, then for me there is no point. Better for me to just get on with my life and become as neutral about the situation as possible.

What I try to do is limit what is considered a transgression against me. For example, I don't count getting "strange" (a chance, one time, sexual encounter) as a transgression.
A person must lie, truly cheat, or steal someone or something from me.

[AtLast]

Originally Posted by Nat

I ran across this today - thought I'd share:

"There are three aspects to the Buddhist idea of patience: patience-persistence, patience-under-insult and acceptance-of-truth.

The fourth is forgiveness...which in the Buddhist context is based more on Karma - the causal chain that's put into effect by your behavior. With karma, there is no external force or person or being that can intervene with your karma. There's nobody else responsible for your karma but you. So the idea of forgiveness of someone else is not as important as it is for you to do your own work. What forgiveness is really tied to in this context is releasing our anger we have toward others.

When I forgive you, I am no longer going to hold anger toward you. I can't free you from your karma, you're still going to have to work this out for yourself in some way, but you know now I'm a safe person for you. I'm no longer going to hold my anger against you and make things difficult.

One of the reason's it's so powerful to release our anger toward other people is that a healthy way to change the course of our own karma is to not hold onto anger."

Gil Fronsdal, Audio Dharma podcast

This way of thinking about my own work and forgiveness has always won out internally. I have to take responsibility for working through anger and hurt. Until then, I can't possibly meaningfully attempt to process with someone else.

Sometimes I wish I could do this more efficiently when I know that want to work through something with someone else that although we have had a rift, I want to make amends.

I have had far too many people I cared about die (family & friends) to not realize that my moving through my faulty reasoning slowly has caused me to miss the opportunity to experience the gift forgiveness can be.

[StrongButch]

You must forgive yourself first then you can forgive another. I believe there would be fewer breakups if people could forgive each other.

[Tony]

Originally Posted by StrongButch

You must forgive yourself first then you can forgive another. I believe there would be fewer breakups if people could forgive each other.

Well said. I feel forgiveness is for ourselves, not so much someone else unless they are asking for it. Even then, we have to forgive ourselves the pain & emotion that brought us to that place to begin with.
I absolutely agree with the break up statement. Forgiveness us such a raw emotion; you're baring your soul. If you can do that together, you still have the ability to move forward together.
My .02

[spritzerJ]

For me forgiveness is essential, a cornerstone. When I forgive I've opened the space for faith and trust (faith to me is trust mixed with hope).

Faith that I can handle where I am at. And faith comes from trust. Trust in myself and trust that another person can be who they are. I don't need to trust someone to "get" me. I trust and "get" myself.

Forgiveness is wishing the same faith and trust for them as I have found/opened up to for myself.

[Miss Scarlett]

Forgiving can be extremely difficult and for me learning to forgive myself was most difficult. But there is a peace and healing that comes from that.

Forgiving others is something else i had to learn...it too brings closure to me. i'm a Libra and as such crave balance. Forgiving myself and others helps bring that about.

i've forgiven those who have hurt me over the years...this takes great strength and isn't always easy but it's far better than letting things fester. It also doesn't always mean that there is a resumption of friendship or relationship...for me that depends on what happened and/or the other party. It's also better for me when to be able to discuss the matter with the other party but that's not always possible for various reasons. If unable to talk with them i will write them a letter that i do not mail. Rather i get everything out on paper and either bury or burn it and scatter the ashes. Bringing it out into the light negates the darkness of the hurt/anger...burning or burying separates me from it and thus sets me free.

i have some favorite quotations of the Dalai Lama i refer to daily:

"If you harbor ill will, it has a negative impact on yourself."

"The way to overcome negative thoughts and destructive emotions is to develop opposing positive emotions that are stronger and more powerful. This takes more than prayer or wishing. It requires deep analysis into the cause of harsh feelings like hatred and a conscious effort to shift perspective."

"Compassion, forgiveness, these are the real, ultimate sources of power for peace and success in life."