What makes a Butch "Butch"

[Miss Scarlett]

Originally Posted by claybaby

Thank YOU & dee!!! I so appreciate your kind words...
as for "elbow in ice cream...umm that would be "frozen custard"...lol...too funny that episode was Honey, thank you for loving me..just as I am...huge grin

LOL...it was frozen custard and you DID tell me to keep my eyes closed...

How could i possibly NOT love you just as you are?

[clay]

Originally Posted by Cajun_dee

mischievous?? MOI? oh dear

there are things we all miss in our lives, i miss my boobs not disappearing into my armpits when i lay down but hey life goes on.....

hey I can bring a lasso and "wrangle" ducks...yea and a fishing pole and fish in the pool...can I borrow a pole and hook, dee one? lmao
I can make me some sushi with the fresh fish and have duck ala orange

[ArkansasPiscesGrrl]

Originally Posted by claybaby

thanks, sweet lady!! Your words mean so much....I miss being able to walk any place, any time...but now I can't...
Like I said, I "waddle" so I will play with those Peabody ducks..maybe sneak a peek around the hotel lobby, find myself something to get into...and like YOU, I am so darn mischievious, I won't be "idle" too long..grins

Clay, I am soooo looking forward to meeting you at the Reunion!!

[clay]

and I, you...lady!!!!

Originally Posted by ArkansasPiscesGrrl

Clay, I am soooo looking forward to meeting you at the Reunion!!

[LaneyDoll]

Originally Posted by Cajun_dee

at the risk of invading the butch space, i would like to say that for this femme, i don't want a shiny new mint condition butch, i like the battlescars, limps, silver top, and everything in between, every character trait,

i don't want what you used to be, i want who i see in front of me right now.

I love, love, love this!!! I especially love the part where you state "I like the limp." I do too. It sure makes me feel less self aware when the end of the night finds me, past the point that I can feel my feet, and I take the shoes off, stand barefooted and the pain is very present. Yes I realize that it is the price of wearing the heels that I love but I sure as Hell can't point any fingers about anyone walking a certain way.

And the battle scars are super attractive.

[clay]

Originally Posted by LaneyDoll

I love, love, love this!!! I especially love the part where you state "I like the limp." I do too. It sure makes me feel less self aware when the end of the night finds me, past the point that I can feel my feet, and I take the shoes off, stand barefooted and the pain is very present. Yes I realize that it is the price of wearing the heels that I love but I sure as Hell can't point any fingers about anyone walking a certain way.

And the battle scars are super attractive.

Thank you, my sweet Laney friend! I know I have many "battle scars"...a 12 inch one along my right side rib cage, a 30 inch one from breastbone to pubic line, one on an ankle. a trach scar, a right knee scar, and Miss Scarlett thinks they are super sexy!!!
I wear mine with pride...esp. the one down the middle of my chest and abdomen....reminds me daily of a "major bullet" I dodged....smiles... I kicked cancer's ass!!!

[firegal]

Originally Posted by Cajun_dee

at the risk of invading the butch space, i would like to say that for this femme, i don't want a shiny new mint condition butch, i like the battlescars, limps, silver top, and everything in between, every character trait,

i don't want what you used to be, i want who i see in front of me right now.

Thanks Cajun that made me smile.... Yes it sounds like a franklin mint limited edition ad.

Oh do i have a hitch in my get-along!

[Leigh]

I know that we all have our own "battle" scars; its what shows that we have been through alot but we are still here alive and kicking. I prefer a butch with said battle scars, or something like that, because it shows alot about what they've gone through and that they are strong after its all said and done. There is something very sexy about a butch who, as Dee said, is not in mint condition but has all the bumps and battle scars that life has to offer

[CherylNYC]

Originally Posted by aishah

my butch partner does drag...some of the comments about wearing dresses and about drag in this thread made me wonder (in a positive way) if others ever do drag and find it a fun way to express themselves.

I'm just catching up. Aisha asked this question a page or so back.

reprinted in part from a post I wrote in the Butches and Body Image thread:

"...I'm dating a very butch woman who sometimes performs in female drag. Her drag personna feels a lot like a toughened up Diana Ross, but about a dozen sizes larger. Her personna wears wigs, heavy make-up, and sparkly dresses. The reason why everyone enjoys and understands the performance as drag is that her virile, masculine energy easily overwhelms any height of heel. Stereotypically feminine trappings only serve to accentuate her masculinity..."

[Wolfsong]

Originally Posted by Mr. Cynthia

I dress in what society-at-large considers "drag" every single day. I put myself out into the world as a woman-id'd butch who passes as a man just as often as not...and that is MY truth. Any comments here that might appear derisive toward drag seem to be directed inward at the posters who experienced awkwardness and discomfort in clothing that does NOT express their truths.

Throughout the course of my day I would say that I get addressed as a equal times as Sir or Ma'am. There are times that, for no apparent reason, when people address me as Sir I just want to scream at them "Are you fucking blind? Do you NOT see these tits? If these tits got any bigger they'd be required to have break lights and a license plate you dumbass!" but I just smile and move along. I've come to believe that this reaction is more about being hurt at being invisible to people than it does to my gender identity.

Originally Posted by Toughy

I never ever felt comfortable in a dress or skirt....except for military uniforms.....that kind of drag just is not me. I am the oldest generation in my family so I don't have to please parents grandparents aunties uncles and neither of my sisters would ever think I should wear a dress/skirt.

I went through a period where dresses and I didn't get along. I put on a kilt for a function once and something changed. (I know, weird!!) Now I am simply neutral on the issue. I am in general physically comfortable in the dresses/skirts that I have. They are modest in appearence and color. Not frilly or with coloful patterns or anything like that. The shoes not so much. Actually, the shoes make me feel way more gender-discomfort than the dress does. I hate those damn shoes!!

I do not wear dresses now except for special occasions where, for me, it is a sign of respect (Such as my cousin's funeral earlier this year) for my family. I should clarify that this is my choice to do that for them, they would be fine if I had worn respectful (in this case black) clothing.

*Laughing....in those situations I am still simply a butch in a dress.

[Liem]

its not something I wear, its nothing i do
Be gracious
respect
pride
self care
belief
earn respect

[Toughy]

Originally Posted by Wolfsong

<snip>
There are times that, for no apparent reason, when people address me as Sir I just want to scream at them "Are you fucking blind? Do you NOT see these tits? If these tits got any bigger they'd be required to have break lights and a license plate you dumbass!" but I just smile and move along. I've come to believe that this reaction is more about being hurt at being invisible to people than it does to my gender identity.

<snip>

ok you made me spit donuts (yeah yeah I know real healthy) and coffee all over my puter...........laughin....

oh yeah welcome to the Planet.........

[Mr. Cynthia]

Originally Posted by Wolfsong

Throughout the course of my day I would say that I get addressed as a equal times as Sir or Ma'am. There are times that, for no apparent reason, when people address me as Sir I just want to scream at them "Are you fucking blind? Do you NOT see these tits? If these tits got any bigger they'd be required to have break lights and a license plate you dumbass!" but I just smile and move along. I've come to believe that this reaction is more about being hurt at being invisible to people than it does to my gender identity.

I used to get anxious every time I had to interact with people who don't know my name- would they call me sir, ma'am, he, she? Should I correct them? Should I make a joke or should I be all offended and snap at them?

Now, I just don't care.

Cashiers, wait staff, the guys at Jiffy Lube...they don't know that blue is my favorite color. They don't know that I collect Zippo lighters and books and sharp-pointy things. They don't know that I have a dog named Max and cats named Bella and Vinnie. Why should they know all about my gender identity/sexual orientation?

I just go with whatever they call me...which is especially funny when they call me "sir" 15 times and then look at the name on my Visa card- talk about priceless!

[Hollylane]

Originally Posted by Morgan

Would I do it again...perhaps, for me being a butch is not on the outside, but on the inside. I am a woman first and it felt good to embrace the feminine side of myself, if only just for a night.

I am sharing the link here. http://s206.photobucket.com/albums/b...gan%20picture/

I've chewed on this for a few days. I guess I just want to say that I don't think that feeling in touch with my femininity means that I need to put on a dress, make-up, pantyhose or high heels, or expect to be oogled by someone of another gender.

I don't feel like I am any less feminine when I am wearing hiking boots, hiking pants, and a t-shirt, struggling uphill, sweating and trudging through mud and muck. I feel strong, and I feel feminine, because that is who I am.

I don't mean to invade butch space, or discount anyone's experiences. I just don't feel that "What makes a Butch "Butch"" has anything to do with clothing. I think that what makes a butch "Butch" is about how they feel about themselves.

[Parker]

I havent yet evolved to the point where being called sir or having mail addressed to Mr. Wolf doesnt bother me. I would like to say that I have but it would be bullshit - it hurts and pisses me off at the same time - which is interesting, seeings how it happens all the time - you'd think I'd be used to it by now.

Like Wolfsong, I am surprised they dont see these huge tits - even in an over-sized t-shirt, they are still quite prominent and enter a room a few minutes before I do. I would love to get a breast reduction if for no other reason than to be able to lay on my stomach without having to adjust them and move them out of the way.

But I digress with my TMI ...

I have to agree with what Wolfsong said about being invisible - no, I dont expect strangers to know anything about my sexuality or gender identity, but being invisible as a woman simply because I am masculine gets tiresome - hell, it even happens on sites like this where "he/hy" is still the default for a lot of folks when addressing butches.

I dont like being invisible, but I refuse to change who I am or how I dress in order for others to "see" me; so I just have to suck it up and find a way to get past the hurt and anger and come to understand that no harm is meant - some people will just never see me.

I hope one day to evolve into that state of Zen where things like that dont even come up on my radar of things that bug the crap out of me.

[BullDog]

I don't pay much attention to whether someone calls me Sir, Ma'am, he, she etc when it's coming from store clerks or some other customer service person. I figure they are either required to say it or they are saying it out or habit. Not everyone who says "have a nice day" truly means it, lol.

When it comes to butch femme communities it is extremely invalidating and frustrating when male defaults are used. Most butches are not male or male id'd so why this continues to be perpetuated is truly beyond me. I thought we were trying to get past the binary. It's certainly not as bad on this site as others but it still occurs.

I am happy to refer to anyone by he or hy if that is what that individual prefers. However most butches are not he/hy and when it is used as a default I just feel the person doing it must be truly out of touch with the reality of how most butches live or they do it to not offend males (which is another sign of male being valued over female). The argument that we have to use he/hy for butches and she for femmes to tell the difference between the two is truly beyond ridiculous to me.

[rande]

Some Butches feel ok "cross dressing," some don't. What makes a Butch butch is who they are, how they are within their own head and how they express that to the outside world.
Some use clothing as part of that presentation. In some cases it is ingrained deep enough to be beyond presentation....more part of the persona.

I feel much more comfortable in male attire. With the exception of the binder, I wear everything from the Men's department. And since the binder is kinda home-made, I guess that's "male attire" too.

But I am Butch because I feel the masculine energy surging inside me...undeniable....vivid. And because of how this energy is carried on into the outside world.

If I ever had to wear a dress, it would be long, loose and more like a robe...I'm not comfortable accentuating my "female" form. But that's just me.

[Ginger]

Wolfsong wrote: "Throughout the course of my day I would say that I get addressed as a equal times as Sir or Ma'am. There are times that, for no apparent reason, when people address me as Sir I just want to scream at them "Are you fucking blind? Do you NOT see these tits? If these tits got any bigger they'd be required to have break lights and a license plate you dumbass!" but I just smile and move along. I've come to believe that this reaction is more about being hurt at being invisible to people than it does to my gender identity."



Wolfsong, your response to being mistaken for a man, despite your impressive boobage, made me remember fondly a butch lover who was almost always called "Sir," and who was confronted by security not once but twice in the time I knew her—after women reported a man in the ladies' bathroom.

She too marveled that anyone could mistake her for male, as her breasts were (and are, I suppose, though I haven't seen her for a while), absolutely huge.

What's interesting is that I read her as butch from the first moment I heard her beautiful deep voice on a friend's answering machine (she was trying to set us up, and knew I would swoon for it), and my reading never wavered, even though she is much more endowed upstairs, than I am.

Her breasts, in other words, did not feminize her. She didn't "present" them the way I present my own little girls, when we are dressing up to go out. She kept them under wraps, snugly out of the way. And they behaved, of course.

I think we "read" people based on certain indicators, and that we do this instantly and subconsciously. The signs that masculine energy is approaching were so clear, in my lover—physical aspects like her walk, her way of holding herself, her gaze, as well as cultural indicators, like her clothing—that the signs she is a woman became secondary.

I raise my glass (I mean, paper cup with coffee), to the large-breasted butch women out there in the world, who emit a welcome and much-appreciated vibe.

[Wolfsong]

Originally Posted by Toughy

ok you made me spit donuts (yeah yeah I know real healthy) and coffee all over my puter...........laughin....

oh yeah welcome to the Planet.........

You dope....don't eat donuts. Even my fat ass is smarter than that. Hey listen I've had this mental image for years and it cracks me up every time. Whenever I take my bra off I see this in my head.....

[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJxJakcwBOM&feature=related"]Looks great! Little full, lotta sap - YouTube[/nomedia]

Originally Posted by Mr. Cynthia

I just go with whatever they call me...which is especially funny when they call me "sir" 15 times and then look at the name on my Visa card- talk about priceless!

My standard reply for "Excuse me sir, that is the ladies room" is "Great thanks. You know you would think after all these years by now I would have figured out how to pee standing up"

Originally Posted by Parker

I havent yet evolved to the point where being called sir or having mail addressed to Mr. Wolf doesnt bother me. I would like to say that I have but it would be bullshit - it hurts and pisses me off at the same time - which is interesting, seeings how it happens all the time - you'd think I'd be used to it by now.

Like Wolfsong, I am surprised they dont see these huge tits - even in an over-sized t-shirt, they are still quite prominent and enter a room a few minutes before I do. I would love to get a breast reduction if for no other reason than to be able to lay on my stomach without having to adjust them and move them out of the way.

But I digress with my TMI ...

I have to agree with what Wolfsong said about being invisible - no, I dont expect strangers to know anything about my sexuality or gender identity, but being invisible as a woman simply because I am masculine gets tiresome - hell, it even happens on sites like this where "he/hy" is still the default for a lot of folks when addressing butches.

I dont like being invisible, but I refuse to change who I am or how I dress in order for others to "see" me; so I just have to suck it up and find a way to get past the hurt and anger and come to understand that no harm is meant - some people will just never see me.

I hope one day to evolve into that state of Zen where things like that dont even come up on my radar of things that bug the crap out of me.

I think it is a lot more for me than feeling invisible as a woman, although there is that. Just because I am masculine does not automatically mean that I want to get rid of every aspect of my female self. I've worked hard to love me as my whole self. That includes her. It is because of her that I can. The woman in me is where my strength and power comes from and I would not betray her for anything in the world. I did that once and I fucked myself up. I think of myself as berdache, two spirits that are part of a whole me.

Besides, I can ignore my womaness all I want........ then when that first cramp hits every month all deniability is out the window and there I am in bed with a quart of ice cream, a box of tissue, and a remote watching Grease for the 900millionth time.

Anyways more than that, it's the feeling of being invisible as a person. As if my presence to that person means so little that they haven't looked me in the eye while speaking to me and actually saw me. *Shrugs.....my baggage I guess..... but I hate it when it happens to me so I make it a point not to do it to other people.

[Wolfsong]

Originally Posted by IslandScout

What's interesting is that I read her as butch from the first moment I heard her beautiful deep voice on a friend's answering machine (she was trying to set us up, and knew I would swoon for it), and my reading never wavered, even though she is much more endowed upstairs, than I am.

Her breasts, in other words, did not feminize her. She didn't "present" them the way I present my own little girls, when we are dressing up to go out. She kept them under wraps, snugly out of the way. And they behaved, of course.

I think we "read" people based on certain indicators, and that we do this instantly and subconsciously. The signs that masculine energy is approaching were so clear, in my lover—physical aspects like her walk, her way of holding herself, her gaze, as well as cultural indicators, like her clothing—that the signs she is a woman became secondary.

I raise my glass (I mean, paper cup with coffee), to the large-breasted butch women out there in the world, who emit a welcome and much-appreciated vibe.

I you right now. Thank you for that