only another butch would understand

[Mister Bent]

Originally Posted by BullDog

Great post Metro. I am not at all interested in perpetuating stereotypes, and you covered the issues very well.

I enjoyed your post as well Mister Bent, although I don't tend to bond with people over masculinity per se. As an example straight males are masculine too, and I find that I have very little in common with most of them. Masculinity may be a bonding element for some. For me, not so much. I have found that in other organizations and communities where it was supposed to be butch space but ends up being "masculine" space and butches- and in particular female and woman identified butches- tend to get erased and many false assumptions made. I do like bonding with a wide range of people and gender identities- but not at the expense of my gender identity when it is suppposed to be a place for my kind- just something to keep in mind for all.

Right. I probably could have worded that a little better, and I appreciate your post all around.

By bonding element I meant something more in the manner of what I said toward the end of my post, that "masculinity" doesn't belong solely to one group of masculine people and, further, that there is no "hierarchy" of masculinity with which to segregate (I hate that shit).

I, too, have seen incidents where female and woman identified butches have been "erased" or treated as "less than," which I find absurd and harmful. I no more want someone policing my identity, my "butchness" than I want to do so to another. And it does go both ways, which you've no doubt seen, wherein the male identity is criticized as not being what butch is, or not belonging in queer space. You've been around, you know the drill. Regardless, I personally try to honor, and am thankful for the long history of butch. I may be male identified, but butch is meaningful to me, and most evocative (to me), of who I am.

"Being butch" isn't something with which I automatically bond with others either, but the experiences that come of being butch - maybe. Real bonding comes from more than simply sharing a common thread.

[Dean Thoreau]

jess, can I give your phone number to the 6 diva's? you can be there super hero...at the fixing plunging stuff you look better in the blue tights!.

[RockyMountainButch]

Hey hows it going yall? Jet, where you been man? Nice to see you here. A friend sent me here so gonna check it out.

[blush]

Originally Posted by Kam

Jet - I think part of what it is ... is human psychology. During our courtship our women learn what it is that drives us, inspires us, what are pleasures are, our intimate thoughts, our favorite movies, music, food to eat... and so forth. When it come to the nastiness of a bad argument or break-up, some of them start pushing buttons, they find the thing that insults, shocks, tears us down, etc. the most - and go for the jugular vein...

Stating the obvious...

It strikes me that people who pull this trick (finding weak spots and exploiting them in a fight) are not limited to any gender, sexuality, or identity.

They're simply assholes.

To say "our women" do this or that is gets my hackles up. It implies femmes and this type of asshole behavior go hand-in-hand. They don't.

[Darth Denkay]

This is so true Tommi - such a great gesture.

Originally Posted by Tommi

Only a Butch would understand, that nod we have for each other as we pass each other on the street, or in a restaurant.

[apretty]

Originally Posted by WicketWWarrick

This is so true Tommi - such a great gesture.

that probably is a butch + butch thing--i'm less likely to nod and much more apt to say: HI SAILOR!

(well, in my single days--a girl's gotta eat!)

[Queerasfck]

Originally Posted by apretty

that probably is a butch + butch thing--i'm less likely to nod and much more apt to say: HI SAILOR!

(well, in my single days--a girl's gotta eat!)

hmmmm, so maybe you really weren't really a virgin when we met

[apretty]

Originally Posted by EzeeTiger

hmmmm, so maybe you really weren't really a virgin when we met

ew yes i was/am!

[Darth Denkay]

Hi all!

I'm going to use this portion of Jess's post as a jumping off point...maybe I should ask first...nah, it's all good.

I absolutely agree with the statement that being a happy handyman does not come at birth. I'm going to take it a step farther and add that sometimes it never comes (not implying that you indicated that it did). I've got a small tool box with your basic set of tools. I can do minor repairs around the house but I'm not going to try anything that's too difficult. Usually if something needs to be fixed I look it up online, see if it looks do-able, and if not I'm calling the repair guy.

It does occur to me that as an adult I have generally always rented, meaning I don't have to pay for repairs. One of these days when I buy again, that might be motivation to try and pick up more skills. Then again, maybe it won't.

Same thing with my car - I can do the basic maintenance but I've got a great mechanic for anything beyond that.

Speaking of cars, I've noticed that my straight guy friends seem to go with the stereotype that I give a shit about cars. We'll be driving around and they're talking about models and years and such - I'm politely nodding my head but really couldn't care less. I can't identify a car until I'm close enough to see the model written on the back. It's just something I'm not interested in.

I was talking to a butch friend a while back and he was concerned because he felt as though because he's a butch he should be a happy handyman in order to take care of his partner. I pointed out that some partners are quite capable of taking care of home maintenance. Beyond that though, just because I may not do the repairs with my own hands doesn't mean I'm not taking care of my partner. I'm not good with my hands (well, at least in that way )but I know who to call when something comes up.

I've got a fairly unrelated question as to how butches prefer to be referred to (knowing that this is personal preference, there is no single answer. We know that within our butch ranks we have female-identified, male-identified, other-identified; those who prefer male pronouns, those who prefer female pronouns, and those who couldn't care less. One word I use frequently with butches is 'bro'. I'm assuming that male-identified would be fine with this, but does this term feel erasing to some? I'd love to hear your collective thoughts on this.

Originally Posted by SyrJess

Personally, I think part of the "things only a butch would understand" is that knowing how to be "handy" and fix things, use tools, learn which tools to buy and which will make your life/ task easier... Does not come at birth!

Generally speaking, most of the butches/ women I know had at least one brother to whom their Dad's "taught" helpful junk to. Fixing cars/ toilets, etc. and as adults, we learned to hate that because we became reliant upon the service industry to do even the simplest repairs/ maintenance tasks.

What this butch understands is that even though my Dad didn't teach me and I spent years waiting and paying for repairs was that I could learn and it was actually pretty cool to do so. Some projects are fraught with frustration "while" I learn, but the end result of being able to do something "handy" for myself kicks ass! Burp! HOO RAH! ~scuse me~


Jess

[Diva]

Originally Posted by Bit

*reads Chris's post*

*starts laughing*

'scuse me, Diva, can I borrow this?

*pulls Derailer Crown from Diva's head, plops it onto Chris's*

k y'all, carry on!

Wait.


You took my Tiara?????

Right.

[Tommi]

Originally Posted by WicketWWarrick

This is so true Tommi - such a great gesture.

Nodding to the BG WicketWWarrick

and to Metro, who likes what he sees..


So, Butch's let's see in ten words or less.

1. What age were you when you first said "I'm butch" ?

2. To whom, yourself included?

[Jet]

Originally Posted by RockyMountainButch

Hey hows it going yall? Jet, where you been man? Nice to see you here. A friend sent me here so gonna check it out.

hey welcome good to to see you again

[Jett]

Originally Posted by Tommi

Nodding to the BG WicketWWarrick

and to Metro, who likes what he sees..


So, Butch's let's see in ten words or less.

1. What age were you when you first said "I'm butch" ?

2. To whom, yourself included?

I think it's a difficult question because the first time it was verbally acknowledged someone had said it to/about me first, that I was butch, and I don't think I've ever really said it to anyone in a informative type of context.

So I guess I acknowledged it, said it (the word) about myself internally after it being said to me at as a teenager (like 19 I think)...

Ok I think that's right around 10 words...

[Jess]

Originally Posted by Tommi

Nodding to the BG WicketWWarrick

and to Metro, who likes what he sees..


So, Butch's let's see in ten words or less.

1. What age were you when you first said "I'm butch" ?

2. To whom, yourself included?

Like Metro, it was said "about " me first.. in the second grade, by my babysitter's niece... "here comes my little butch" .. I went home and asked momma what it meant. She said it meant that babysitters niece was mean.
I don't think I truly embraced the term until I was around 35 and began seeking out folks who were also embracing it.

Sorry... that wasn't ten words or less... my girl says I practice "butch math" which means more bigger better harder faster.. LOL!

[Jet]

Originally Posted by Tommi

Nodding to the BG WicketWWarrick

and to Metro, who likes what he sees..


So, Butch's let's see in ten words or less.

1. What age were you when you first said "I'm butch" ?

2. To whom, yourself included?

I felt different at the age of four. It was when I fell to my knees over a girl at 16 that I knew I was butch. I told my best friends.

Originally Posted by RockyMountainButch

Hey hows it going yall? Jet, where you been man? Nice to see you here. A friend sent me here so gonna check it out.

Hey did you get my post at the other site about Colorado? My kin are in Boulder, Ft. Collins, Greeley, Sterling, Telluride, and Denver, Windsor..we have a lot in common as Colorado is my home state. Keep in touch dude.

[BullDog]

I just ran across a thread with a link to a video that I hadn't seen before, so I thought I would post the link in case others hadn't seen it as well. It looks like the video is about an hour long, and I haven't had time to watch it yet, but I believe it is a very important topic. Here is the link:


Tough Guise

I feel that unexamined masculinity is a big problem in our current day queer and butch femme cultures.

[Greyson]

Originally Posted by Admin

We do not want to create a site where posturing, hierarchies, sexism, or ignorance is the norm...nor do we want members to feel that their own gender identities or ways of being are being mocked, "othered", or dismissed.

Again, please take some time to do some hard thinking around this issue and take the initiative to make sure that your words are welcoming and inclusive of all ways of being.

Thanks,
Admin

I have not had much time the past few days to peruse and hang out in cyber land. I've had a pretty hard day in the "real world" and reading this made me smile. Thanks.

[Greyson]

Originally Posted by BullDog

I just ran across a thread with a link to a video that I hadn't seen before, so I thought I would post the link in case others hadn't seen it as well. It looks like the video is about an hour long, and I haven't had time to watch it yet, but I believe it is a very important topic. Here is the link:


Tough Guise

I feel that unexamined masculinity is a big problem in our current day queer and butch femme cultures.

Bull Dog, LTNS. I was just going to sign off and the last line about "unexamined masculinity" caught my eye. If I understand you correctly, I agree. When I have more time, I will come back and view the video. I know you already know but for anyone reading this I identify as a Transmasculine Butch.

Good to see you again. Bye for now.

[BullDog]

Thanks Greyson, it's good to see you and I look forward to your thoughts. I haven't gotten much of any response at all so far, and I have posted this here as well as 2 very large butch groups on Facebook. Thank you very much.

[Toughy]

Bully....

give me a little time to take a look at the video.....then I'm sure I'll have some comments.....

unexamined masculinity.....interesting idea..........