The Purse: Unpacking Femme Privilege

[Nomad]

Originally Posted by Reader

Well, I hear you about the eye-contact thing. Perhaps in NJ it is different.

About two weeks ago I was in Dunkin Donuts and it was late at night and two nurses in scrubs were getting coffee. I was next to them getting my own coffee, when the dark-haired one began chatting me up. I chatted back. She was kind of nice and seemed like she could have been a femme lesbian, but it was hard to tell since she and her friend were both wearing scrubs.

I got the feeling she was flirting with me. Normally, I am sort of dense about such things, but I have been lacking a femme in my life, missing that pleasant femme energy a lot lately and so I am more aware of its absence, I guess.

She and her friend received their stuff and I said to her, "I'd be happy to get that for you ladies", holding out a bill in their server's direction. She said "Oh, uh,..." and she stammered and looked at her friend. I added, "Might I get those coffees for you?" She finally said, "Oh, no, no. Thanks anyway. We have it." I said "OK", paid for my coffee and left.

Now, I could interpret that interaction in a few ways. My best friend, a femme by the way, made a disparaging remark about straight women who enjoy flirting with butches when I recounted this tale to her. Maybe she was just a friendly woman who was not flirting at all. Who knows?

Until I am coupled, I will continue, on those rare occasions, to make friendly gestures to women who appear to flirt with me in public.

It's kind of fun, in a strange, character-stretching way, to be shot down in public. After all, a loaded gun, once properly disassembled, is rendered impotent. The same holds true for defeat.

maybe she just wasnt "out" to her friend. co-worker/work environment situations are hard for some people.

maybe she didnt know you were flirting. maybe she's the 2 x 4 type.

maybe she thought "OMG you think i'm flirting with you because i wanted you to pay for our coffee" and got embarrassed because she thought she was sending the wrong message

maybe she's married and didnt want her friend to see her accepting coffee from you or accuse her of flirting with someone

maybe she changed her mind mid flirt because your offer to pay was overt and she felt shy of it. (next time just pay the cashier for all 3 and walk away. if she's pleased she'll catch up with you to say 'thank you'.)

Originally Posted by tantalizingfemme

Yes, however the incident we are discussing, Reader offered to buy the women's coffee with the intention of getting something in return or else she wouldn't have said she was "shot down"; Not in an act of kindness towards a stranger. Which feeds into the reason why a lot of us wouldn't accept someone else paying for our coffee.

i thought the intention was to return the flirtation with equal interest and to check to see whether it was ok to take things one step further - i.e.: a cup of coffee. is that not so? i feel like i'm being slow here. sorry. "shot down" is just a phrase. i use it for all sorts of things that have nothing to do with me trying to get my groove on with someone. is it not ok for me to have thought, "oooh. way to get your flirt on!" when Reader offered to pay for coffee during a mutually engaged flirtation? people do it in bars all the time for more obvious reasons few of which involve intent that's above board. obviously Reader doesnt have any ill intent and coffee seems pretty benign to me. is this another one of those "(sigh) someone crack Nomad's skull open another inch please" education moments?

i want to understand both sides. i think i do understand both sides but i see them as a perspective in the moment sort of thing and not something that can be debated clearly because it's been taken out of context. i understand that it wasnt an altruistic act, thus eliminating the random act of kindness thing but is it necessarily a "wrong" act? cant it just be an act that is interpreted differently based on individual circumstances and the context of the moment or would it have always wrong for a femme (using Reader's reference word) to initiate or accept unexpected flirtation plus a sudden invitation for coffee from someone?

would we be talking about this at all if the person being offered something wasnt a femme? would it have been considered equally wrong if Reader was the one who received the "let me get that for you" from the femme? i understand the mindset behind leaving the "power to direct" with the person being approached (a femme, in this case) at first, allowing that person to tell you which direction they're willing to go and which direction they're not, and accepting that without attitude or aggression. that's just respect. and isnt that what Reader did? offered. got a "no thanks" and moved on without pushing?

if someone had done it for me i wouldnt have automatically thought "quit trying to buy me buster." i would have thought either "no thanks, not interested and dont want to lead you on" or "oooh! way to get your flirt on!" if that person were standing in line next to me at the grocery store and was flirting with me and then offered to pay my $60 grocery bill i'd have thought "uhm. no. creepy. buh bye now." but we're talking $2 here.

for the price of a cup of coffee my dignity cannot be bought. anyone assuming so would find themselves spitting out pieces of their pathetic ego by the time i was done with them. but for the price of a cup of coffee i might get the hint that someone was flirting with me. (i'm the 2 x 4 type meself)

i would sincerely appreciate further explanation/discussion. (small words, type slowly)