The Purse: Unpacking Femme Privilege

[Angeltoes]

I'm curious as to why people feel uncomfortable about accepting a cup of coffee from a stranger. I have bought for and accepted various things from strangers.

[Toughy]

Originally Posted by Angeltoes

I'm curious as to why people feel uncomfortable about accepting a cup of coffee from a stranger. I have bought for and accepted various things from strangers.

cuz my momma didn't raise no fool.........laughin.........

don't take candy from strangers........

[Bèsame*]

It has come to pass unfornately that strangers, are not who they portray themselves to be. As much as we/I want to believe they are kind, no one really knows what lurks behind their motives. Most of us see and feel the flags, but some do not.

Originally Posted by Angeltoes

I'm curious as to why people feel uncomfortable about accepting a cup of coffee from a stranger. I have bought for and accepted various things from strangers.

[Angeltoes]

True, but I grew up a long way from Boise, Idaho in a really harsh environment and have yet to regret buying or accepting something so small from a stranger. If I'm chatting on line with someone and say 'I'll get this' and pay for their coffee it's just a simple gesture to be nice. So if I would do it to be nice, I can't see why others wouldn't.

Originally Posted by Uniqueswtfemm

It has come to pass unfornately that strangers, are not who they portray themselves to be. As much as we/I want to believe they are kind, no one really knows what lurks behind their motives. Most of us see and feel the flags, but some do not.

[The_Lady_Snow]

Originally Posted by Angeltoes

I'm curious as to why people feel uncomfortable about accepting a cup of coffee from a stranger. I have bought for and accepted various things from strangers.

I like my boundaries to be crystal clear with folks especially strangers, it's unfortunate that sometimes if not most of the time that when something is purchased it'll equate in their mind one "owes" them time, your attention, your gratitude.. *My* time is valuable, certainly worth much moré than a beverage.

That's how *I* roll not everyone may share this particular line of thought.

[Kätzchen]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

I like my boundaries to be crystal clear with folks especially strangers, it's unfortunate that sometimes if not most of the time that when something is purchased it'll equate in their mind one "owes" them time, your attention, your gratitude.. *My* time is valuable, certainly worth much moré than a beverage.

That's how *I* roll not everyone may share this particular line of thought.

Just to add to this line of thought:

This is how *I* roll, too.

Angeltoes, as you grow on your journey these days, you will find that you tinker with your own system of boundaries and you may even find that several experiences of your own, now or in the future, will sharpen your focus on where your boundaries will need shoring up or expansion - on any given day or time or even more specific, as defined by an event that is unique to your own experience.

My boundaries in the past were pretty open. Not so much anymore but to add specificity to my statement: I remain open minded but govern my boundaries judiciously with each event or circumstance that presents the opportunity to fine tune my boundary system... because this is how my stone rolls these days.

[Angeltoes]

But I do have clear boundaries. We're still talking about a cup of coffee, aren't we??

That's how you roll and that's fine. But personally, I do NOT think my time is worth more than the price of beverage because unless I'm working, my time is not for sale. I give it freely or not at all.

Originally Posted by Kätzchen

Just to add to this line of thought:

This is how *I* roll, too.

Angeltoes, as you grow on your journey these days, you will find that you tinker with your own system of boundaries and you may even find that several experiences of your own, now or in the future, will sharpen your focus on where your boundaries will need shoring up or expansion - on any given day or time or even more specific, as defined by an event that is unique to your own experience.

My boundaries in the past were pretty open. Not so much anymore but to add specificity to my statement: I remain open minded but govern my boundaries judiciously with each event or circumstance that presents the opportunity to fine tune my boundary system... because this is how my stone rolls these days.

[Kätzchen]

Originally Posted by Angeltoes

But I do have clear boundaries. We're still talking about a cup of coffee, aren't we??

That's how you roll and that's fine. But personally, I do NOT think my time is worth more than the price of beverage because unless I'm working, my time is not for sale. I give it freely or not at all.

My response was a direct response to your original question of:

I'm curious as to why people feel uncomfortable about accepting a cup of coffee from a stranger. I have bought for and accepted various things from strangers (Angeltoes).

Three other members besides myself posted in response to your original question for a total of 4 other perspectives of various experience in direct answer to your statement in question.

Accepting a cup of coffee, whether it be from a complete stranger to someone we barely know to someone we know better than as just a stranger (the aforementioned are examples of a particular context), come with types of intended or unintended consequences, which we may or may not be fully aware of. Hence why you got 4 offerings of perspective of various degrees.

Clear boundaries and valuation of time and other sets of items associated with the "cup of coffee" scenario you spoke of, are clearly not as simple as one might think.

[Blue_Daddy-O]

Originally Posted by Kätzchen

Clear boundaries and valuation of time and other sets of items associated with the "cup of coffee" scenario you spoke of, are clearly not as simple as one might think.

I believe often times it can be a simple gesture and others may read too much into it and miss out on the kindness of strangers.

Granted I've been on the receiving end too when it was meant to gain more.

[Toughy]

I could staunchly go around using terms deemed acceptable by the current intellectual ruling class feminist theorists,

Reader do you really think this comment was necessary? It feels snarky in my mind.
--------------
As to ladies or or girls or ma'am or miss or mister or other gender specific words.......some like it and some don't.........I err on the side of just saying 'Hi how is it going' vs 'Hi ladies, how is it going?'......the ladies thing is totally un-necessary when addressing strangers and that is my nickel's worth.

It just feels creepy if someone I do not know at all.......a complete stranger offers to buy anything for me. If it's someone I see regularly in a store then it's all good. If someone I don't know is short some change in the grocery check-out, generally I will dig in my pocket to help them out and appreciate it if someone does the same for me. I think of it as paying forward.

so as you can see my feelings are totally muddy around this.....

[tantalizingfemme]

Originally Posted by Blue_Daddy-O

I believe often times it can be a simple gesture and others may read too much into it and miss out on the kindness of strangers.

Yes, however the incident we are discussing, Reader offered to buy the women's coffee with the intention of getting something in return or else she wouldn't have said she was "shot down"; Not in an act of kindness towards a stranger. Which feeds into the reason why a lot of us wouldn't accept someone else paying for our coffee.

[Reader]

Hi all. OK, I will try and answer some of the posts.

First of all, not everyone is offended by being called a "lady". Sure, in theory, I could staunchly go around using terms deemed acceptable by the current intellectual ruling class feminist theorists, et al, but, I was just chatting in line late at night at Dunkin Donuts unexpectedly. "Ladies" is what I said. They neither blanched, nor fumed. Just sayin'.

To me, giving someone my number directly seems even more forward than giving a waitress a five for two cups of coffee. But, maybe they were offended. If so, then even if she/they were dykes, we would not have been suitably matched even as pals. I am fairly laid back in many ways. As some of you know, I am considered non-'pc' by some folks, gauche by others. For example, I have been known to take my own spinach to Chinese food restaurants and ask them to sautee it because they didn't serve it on their menu. This could mortify some dining companions.

If the woman had said "Why, thank you, that's very nice of you. Might you join us?", I certainly would have joined them for the coffee and chatted for a few minutes. Offering to pay for a beverage certainly does not seem as ominous to me as it seems to be to some of you, but I don't know what kind of experiences you've had.

I've been at plenty of bars when folks buy rounds or single drinks for me. It never felt odd. But, I can understand if some folks don't like it.

I often pay for my companions when dining out, because there were times when others paid for me. I honestly never feel that anyone "owes" me a thing just because I happen to pay for us to do something. I OFFER. I hang out with folks who do not have a sense of entitlement, who do not EXPECT me to pay. My pals pay for me, too, sometimes and if they don't pay for me they do other things which are even better, like COOK for me and then wash the dishes...who can beat that! Who can beat having your girlfriend cook food, dish it up, serve it to you as you sit on her couch and then have her take the dishes away and wash them, too? I will gladly pay for dinner out to get that treatment at home. However, the second I think someone feels entitled to such treatment or is using me I will stop treating them well. I am always appreciative when a woman does things for me and I always feel appreciated, now, that is, when I do things for people. Otherwise, I do not do them. I simply S-T-O-P doing them if I feel used.

I am not on this board as much lately, but I'm glad I saw this thread is active again. Let me also just add that as a butch I do possess butchness. I AM a butch. I will bring a woman flowers. I will remark that she looks pretty. I will delight in her femininity as it defines itself and reveals itself in my world. I like femmes. I do think there is "femme privilege" and I support that for the most part.

[aishah]

If the woman had said "Why, thank you, that's very nice of you. Might you join us?", I certainly would have joined them for the coffee and chatted for a few minutes. Offering to pay for a beverage certainly does not seem as ominous to me as it seems to be to some of you, but I don't know what kind of experiences you've had.

I've been at plenty of bars when folks buy rounds or single drinks for me. It never felt odd. But, I can understand if some folks don't like it.

I often pay for my companions when dining out, because there were times when others paid for me. I honestly never feel that anyone "owes" me a thing just because I happen to pay for us to do something. I OFFER. I hang out with folks who do not have a sense of entitlement, who do not EXPECT me to pay. My pals pay for me, too, sometimes and if they don't pay for me they do other things which are even better, like COOK for me and then wash the dishes...who can beat that! Who can beat having your girlfriend cook food, dish it up, serve it to you as you sit on her couch and then have her take the dishes away and wash them, too? I will gladly pay for dinner out to get that treatment at home. However, the second I think someone feels entitled to such treatment or is using me I will stop treating them well. I am always appreciative when a woman does things for me and I always feel appreciated, now, that is, when I do things for people. Otherwise, I do not do them. I simply S-T-O-P doing them if I feel used.

i've had a lot of experiences with masculine-of-center folks who felt entitled to my time and attention because i am a femme woman, period. mainly cisgendered men, but not only. that's why i'm wary of strangers, especially strangers doing nice things for me. i'm extremely friendly to everyone and i like to believe the best of people, but my experience has been more often than not that masculine-of-center folks have taken that to mean that they can invade my space physically, pressure me to go out with them, pressure me for my number, etc. often if i say no, i'm completely ignored and they refuse to stop pressuring me or they get angry and threaten me. that is why i personally understand the wariness to accept free cups of coffee, free drinks at the bar, or what have you.

obviously not all strangers are like that, but i'd say about half or more of the time, i end up in a very uncomfortable situation. so, you know. i'm still an extremely friendly person, but it has made me very wary, and i completely understand why some people might not be friendly, or might appear standoffish, or might not accept a drink from a stranger or acquaintance.

for me, buying something for someone i know and have an understood relationship with where there are not implied expectations or we're cool like that is a totally different story. i buy things for friends and they buy things for me all the time.

[Martina]

Originally Posted by Reader

Let me also just add that as a butch I do possess butchness. I AM a butch. I will bring a woman flowers. I will remark that she looks pretty. I will delight in her femininity as it defines itself and reveals itself in my world. I like femmes. I do think there is "femme privilege" and I support that for the most part.

You get that is not what femme privilege means? Femme privilege is what we get from passing as straight. It means we aren't read as gender non-conforming and don't receive the hostility that folks who do receive. It's nothing most of us want, and it has nothing to do with receiving flowers from butches or being flattered.

Moreover, BEING butch does not mean bringing women flowers or delighting in femininity. As you know, the world is full of butches who prefer other butches.