Femme Led Relationships and Trans/Butch/Femme Bottoms

[The_Lady_Snow]

...................

[Waldo]

Leave it to Snow to whore around for conversation.

xo Snowy.

[The_Lady_Snow]

Originally Posted by Waldo

Leave it to Snow to whore around for conversation.

xo Snowy.

Well it is Saturday night, it's how it rolls...

[Waldo]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

Well it is Saturday night, it's how it rolls...

Uh huh. There is clearly not enough of the chatty around these parts tonight.

[The_Lady_Snow]

Originally Posted by Waldo

Uh huh. There is clearly not enough of the chatty around these parts tonight.

Not when it comes to this particular dynamic!

[Martina]

Ah well, missed the chance to chat. i am in a Femme-led relationship, but i am not butch/trans. Don't know if i should chime in anyway.

[weatherboi]

Originally Posted by Martina

Ah well, missed the chance to chat. i am in a Femme-led relationship, but i am not butch/trans. Don't know if i should chime in anyway.

hey Martina!!!
your opinion is always welcome in here, so please feel free!!!
i would also be willing to ask admin to change the title of the thread...i feel the femme led dynamic is so small it might be to our advantage. what do you think?

[weatherboi]

i am a lucky guy that gets to do this!!!

[Martina]

Thanks!!

Great graphic! Yum.

i am so so so so so into giving footrubs. My Queen loves them. My Sir too, actually.

i am trying to learn how to do a pedicure, but i am bad. Even though i am femme, i have never done my own nails (and hardly ever had them done). Ma'am bought me a lovely kit, but it took FOREVER the first time and was a mess. i know boys who can do better pedis than this girl. god. lol.

Being at Her feet, for whatever reason, is one of the joys of life.

Re changing the title of the thread, i don't know how many new folks it would bring in. Nice to feel welcome though.

[weatherboi]

hey Martina!!!

i have become very fond of styling Ms's hair for Her. She has been very patient while i have learned to use the Chi. i have often thought about teaching myself how to give Her a pedicure. when She allows me to rub Her feet i use this



i also wanted to add that i have never in my life styled hair or anything in the beauty/style related in service before...i was really nervous using that Chi...it is hot!!! burning Her does not feel good and makes me want to crawl in a hole when i have. my point is She is super forgiving and patient and i am lucky to have a Ms that allows me the space to gain value in giving up something. it makes me trust in her direction of Our/our relationship so my acts come to Her more willingly. hope that makes sense.

[waxnrope]

Originally Posted by Isadora

All relationships are about energy exchange, not necessarily about "power" exchange, but I don't know a relationship that has lasted longer then a couple years that does not at some point deal with balance of "power". Especially since, in my understanding, this is not a BDSM thread and therefore BDSM and D/S relationships have a unique form of power exchange.

My grandmother ran the household. She was bossy. My grandfather adored her and his always strove to make her happy. She led fearlessly. He followed willingly. They, as far as I know, were not a BDSM couple.

My Great Aunt Laura thew her abusive father out of the house when she was 16 and with her brother George (a year older then her) supported and raised her 8 younger brother and sisters and she ran her husband the same way. Mr. Ward did everything she asked and loved her.

I am bossy. I like to be in control until I don't want to be. Heh. I boss Hawk around and have for years (going on 22). It is innate. I do not have a D/s relationship with Hawk. Hawk is not my bottom/boi. Hawk is my spousal unit we have very clear understandings of how our energy is exchanged. Heh.

Now I remember hearing my Grandpa's younger brother once say that my Grandfather was "hen pecked" but I never ever in years of being with them heard him complain or do anything but agree with her. Except when he would slip me money when she was not around. *soft smile* Sometimes outside observations of people's relationships is assumptive and annulling.

I think this is where I get confused when taking/co-opting/borrowing/re-defining D/s leather language (i.e. bottom) and using it in vanilla or other flavors of relationships. I see common language as a feature of a "culture" and when I see it out of cultural contest, I have to be the "hanged man" and look from upside down to see from a different point of view. Everyone does that at a different angle and sometimes no matter how many ways I look at it, it just doesn't work for me. But I always try to look.

So, my point is relationships, are like snowflakes, each one unique and beautiful or disgusting in its own little way.

This thread is not a place that I thought to view. I believed that there was nothing for me here. However, one doesn't learn anything by avoiding ...

Your post, Isadora, certainly changed my thinking. What you have is deep and powerful and interrogates the binary traps in which we have a tendency to set for ourselves ... and others. You've planted fertile soil in which to grow. I have learned much from it ... and sense there are things ... yes, for me ... within in which I need to consider. A week's worth of reflection at least ... I'm slow, what can I say?

Thanks for eloquent way of saying it, and thanks to WB for starting this thread ...

[bigbutchmistie]

Great thread...

[Martina]

Originally Posted by weatherboi

hey Martina!!!

i have become very fond of styling Ms's hair for Her. She has been very patient while i have learned to use the Chi. i have often thought about teaching myself how to give Her a pedicure. when She allows me to rub Her feet i use this



i also wanted to add that i have never in my life styled hair or anything in the beauty/style related in service before...i was really nervous using that Chi...it is hot!!! burning Her does not feel good and makes me want to crawl in a hole when i have. my point is She is super forgiving and patient and i am lucky to have a Ms that allows me the space to gain value in giving up something. it makes me trust in her direction of Our/our relationship so my acts come to Her more willingly. hope that makes sense.

Thank You. i will mention the product to Her. She is a lover of essential oils, and we use those a lot, depending on the mood. There is also a balm, whose name i have forgotten. i will let You know.

There is a lot to be said for a bare handed rub though, i think. i love that transition from a tight foot to something soft, warm and relaxed.

That's awesome about learning how to do hair. That's a valuable skill! Yes, my Ma'am is patient too. She has to be -- to be my Dominant. i want to learn more about massage, but the classes are so expensive.

i love caring for and worshipping Her feet. Something extra special in that with a Femme Dominant.

A former Femme Dominant had me shave her pussy. Now THAT was scary the first couple of times. But fun!

Performing body service for a Femme IS intoxicating.

[Mitmo01]

This is def our house and our dynamic....wanted to bump this up a while ago....I know that this type of dynamic is unusual in that it is not in the majority but i suspect its more common then we know....

my Ms and I are going to deeper levels in exploring our boundaries and our wiring so to speak and it feels very liberating for me....

[Angelika]

No posts here since FEB 2011? Either we do not have many in this type of relationship on BFP, or, they would rather have their nails pulled out than admit it openly *grins*. Be that as it may, I myself have been absent from BFP for a long while, and on that note, returning, I shall post here for my first 'return' post.

I agree with Isadora ... it has been around for ages. Not all 'Femme led' dynamics are D/s or BDSM, and of course, at the same time, not all 'Femme led' dynamics that hold components of D/s or BDSM, are 'Femme led' outside of such parameters. That is the beauty of all relationships, the uniqueness. In my case, all components are usually present, but much also depends on my willingness to engage.

I have no personal issues frolicking within the fold of 'vanilla' as da Boss where no D/s or BDSM takes place, nor do I go screaming into the night in frustration when I cannot beat some flesh or have my toes sucked in the shadowy flickers of candlelight. I do have issues if I am not da Boss though *laughs*

I love being the Head of the Household (for the lack of a better term), may it be within, or outside the lines of D/s (or BDSM). It carries with it the responsibilities, of course, but more so than anything, its openly empowering on so many levels.

Ah yes, dressed in pantyhose, a dark suit where the skirt stops just above the knees, pencil kind, the blouse almost sheer, hinting, but not showing; stilettos that make you afraid you will step on your boobage at age 60 if you do not wear a bra now; hair piled up, loosely cascading, inviting yet with a 'hands off' sign invisibly attached; small half mooned glasses perched at the end of the nose, looking over them at some unsuspecting Butch ... and not saying a word. Perhaps leaning against the doorway of a car repair shop, or standing casually in a boardroom setting, or waking up to sunlight streaming through my window and the smell of coffee assaulting my nostrils ... waiting, and knowing.

Oh the endless possibilities in a Femme led world!!!!

Angelika

[Sachita]

I'm reading and watching. I'm in this type of relationship right now. We always had this type of dynamic even as friends. There is no struggle and it's very peaceful having the parameters defined. My BDSM days are over... not saying I'm not kinky, just not into the lifestyle or serious SM play but enjoy a natural femdom dynamic. I honestly think it's part of who I am. It's both sexual and spiritual for me.

I am a natural born alpha femme and although I can exist in an intelligent BF relationship, I flourish when I lead and the other appreciates that.

More later

[Sachita]

Originally Posted by Jess

While reading through this thread, I keep stopping and scratching my head just a little as I am trying to understand why it was placed in the gender, label, id forum instead of in the BDSM forum. I think because so very much of the "issue" that is originally written about is very specific to the "power exchange" relationship, which is more readily accepted and discussed within the "power exchange" community, it may be better served being *there*.

I think that in the gender/ id spectrum aspect of this subject many folks in the b-f community are a tad rigid in what their minds eye creates relating to how butches and femmes "should" interact with one another. This goes all the way to their entire vision of what butch and femme mean to them. Adjective or noun? It goes to some very core issues for some folks and with terminology constantly evolving as we ( as a part of the greater LGBT community) are becoming more self aware and more socially conscious, we either buck the changes or roll with them and hopefully grow a little on that journey.

I don't particularly see the feminine partner in a relationship "leading" as something exclusive to BDSM relationships. We ( probably) ALL have people we know, where the "woman" in the relationship "pulls the strings", as it were. The old jokes of the "taming of the shrew" or poor uncle Jake... his wife keeps him on a short leash.

Frankly, in most relationships however the dynamic of decision making, nurturing, income earning etc., is based on who does what best and whatever works for each individual couple is just what works best. I don't see a man/ male id / masculine woman ( either of them) as "less than" for choosing to express the more a) nurturing b ) domestic c) gentle or d) ( insert any word that is usually a descriptive for the traditional "home maker" role) aspects of themselves. I think this is where we can often get really twisted in how we view our peers. Too often, it can really screw with how we view ourselves as well.

In my experience in the Leather/ BDSM communities, there was far more acceptance and APPRECIATION of the roles chosen by individuals and their dynamics as a "couple" or as part of a "family". That small portion of the greater community seems to have for the most part, worked through most of the possibilities of what relationships "can be" and do not in general "judge" another's kink ( or turn-on, or whatever floats their boat). They seem to get it, when it comes down to "whatever makes you guys happy". Of course, with that said... YES, there are folks even in that very small but diverse community who still need to one up someone else or make judgements about others to make themselves feel better. What I have come to realize about all of that, is that it really comes down to individuals and not the whole community.

Personally, when I see an obvious "power exchange" that has been "chosen" , I see far more than the gender preference. It makes no difference to me where the individuals fall on the spectrum of gender portrayal. Actually one of the most interesting aspects of it all for me, is "where" individuals find their power core and how it chooses to be expressed. Ex: I have a friend who is a dominant gay man who prefers to Top from a Dominant Female space and prefers to dominate/ top masculine id'ed female/boi bottoms. His love life, however, is more of a "vanilla" gay man. He also maintains a Daddy/ girl relationship with a straight woman ( who happens to be a Femme Top) that is strictly platonic. So, where we find our, or express our "power exchange", can be and often is totally removed from where we "live", so to speak.

I dropped the Syr from my nickname here as I wanted to be able to discuss a wider range of subjects without being judged or pigeonholed as being "one of those Leather folks". I also dropped it because I am no longer as active as was in the Leather community. I no longer needed to "define" myself as primarily residing in that realm. While the exchange of power energy is still a huge turn-on , it does not limit or shape my interactions in the rest of my world.

I see this issue as more of one of self acceptance and finding your "bliss" as it goes. If you are happy, then have at it!!! Devil be damned if others feel a need to judge your path to happiness and wholeness.

I read this again and took some time really thinking about it. As you know the "scene" was a very large part of my life some years ago. Traditional relationships were not enough for me and I stepped into a reality I created based on female domination which was a combination of my sexual and spiritual needs. For whatever reason I needed the healing of power exchange and that shaped me to be the woman I am today.

I've stepped into several dynamics and lived many lives just in this lifetime. Although I sexually open-minded and experienced in all level of physical and mental types of play- bdsm, role-play, sm, I honestly never really placed myself totally into the bdsm lifestyle, per se. They were elements of it I found exciting but it was the exchange of power, the mental dynamics of "feminine power exchange" that kept me interested. Even when I started dating in the BF community I found myself drawn to those who accepted my natural dominance and was ok with me maintaining general control over our day to day. I am a strong woman who wakes up calculating my every move and use to making decisions and taking most of responsibility. Normally I am also the one that earns the most income and feel more comfortable making most of the decisions for our home. The only time I don't need to be in control if the bedroom. This is not to say I can't swing into almost any direction. I can, but now I am finding that I don't need the kinky games as much as I did when I was younger. It's more about the day to day dynamic and when it comes to intimacy I want it to be soft, bonding and comfortable for both of us. If my partner needs something I am happy to give it to them no matter what it is but my needs are fairly simple when it comes to having an orgasm.

But you're right... we all travel across that polarity. My base energy may be one way but I swing in different directions based on my needs at the moment. Perhaps this is what makes relationships so difficult? The expectation and counting on someone to always be the same rather then being able to ride and shift with them? Perhaps there is a special chemistry that allows us to accept each other no matter what the moment unfolds.

I have always been and will always be a natural alpha femme. Although you can attempt to keep me somewhat bridled it would be a shame to do this. My passions and creativity lie in my natural dominance. If you learn to feed it, seduce it you unleash the most amazing woman. This I have learn and shall not forget.

There is a huge misconception that a masculine butch can not be with an alpha femme. The truth is that the strongest people I know prefer allowing someone else to be in control. Not because they can't step up to it but prefer not to. They don't really give a shit what people think and they know who they are. A warrior fights for his Queen and subjugates himself because he adores her not because he is weak or emasculated.

Reading your post made me think a lot about the past and this has all been very reflective. There were quite a few gay men I had femdom interaction with. It was funny walking into a gay leather bar and seeing a select few groveling around me as if I was royalty. They needed this exchange as much as I did. We all need to really tune into our frequencies rather then allowing our heads to force round pegs into square holes.

[Sachita]

Today I was talking to an ex. This is a very masculine butch alpha type person. We talk every few months and have kept a great friendship going. This person is not submission, by no means but....

After posting in this thread I asked hym today if hy felt I was too dominant or too aggressive and if that was ever a power struggle for hym. We ended things mainly because hy had serious control issues and this constantly became an issue. Hy wanted to always be with me, plan what we did, etc etc and I needed a lot of space. I just don't require being around another human all the time. Hy wanted that perfect little world with wife, kids and white picket fence. That's just not me. but....

hy said that although I was very strong I was the first woman to really seduce hym as a femme. That hy always felt strong and masculine. I was sexually aggressive to a point. I knew what I wanted and how I wanted it. I called it "daddy duty". So even on my back I was in control. Hy said that looking back it was all extremely hot and that today it has shaped hys thinking and hy looks for strong feminine women. Still hy won't let go of the control issue and for us it's like oil and water. I could deal with an alpha type person as long as they weren't that way towards me. I think this is why I'm more drawn to the daddy types because I enjoy a strong partner but I'm like the spoiled little brat girl that always gets her way. I prefer to lead as well.

[Toughy]

by Angelika
Ah yes, dressed in pantyhose, a dark suit where the skirt stops just above the knees, pencil kind, the blouse almost sheer, hinting, but not showing; stilettos that make you afraid you will step on your boobage at age 60 if you do not wear a bra now; hair piled up, loosely cascading, inviting yet with a 'hands off' sign invisibly attached; small half mooned glasses perched at the end of the nose, looking over them at some unsuspecting Butch ... and not saying a word. Perhaps leaning against the doorway of a car repair shop, or standing casually in a boardroom setting, or waking up to sunlight streaming through my window and the smell of coffee assaulting my nostrils ... waiting, and knowing.

Ah yes...............damn woman

[Soft*Silver]

I am in a femdom relationship with someone who is slowly transition MtF. It took me a long time to get over myself and deal with the boundaries I established for myself as a lesbian femme in order for me to accept this lovely relationship. Because he (and yes he still uses the H word) was born male and I am lesbian, people have been quite snotty regarding us. (not here) I have to argue my right to call myself a lesbian. These people mainly piss me off because they want our relationship to be pigeon holed under homophobic and transphobic conditions.

I found so much strength beating down my self inflicted barriers and claiming my right to be who I am. I LOVE packing. I LOVE B&D and have even started getting much more experienced in S&M as well. Physically I was waylaid for a time, but its amazing how creative one can get when one is hungry for power exchanges and all that goes with it.

my gurl has the additional stigma of being caught betwixt and between and having his identity and role questioned. He knows he is betwixt and between and thus, is his reason for keeping the H pronoun. I have never met a more honest and real person in my life.

I have had people call me closeted for being in this relationship. Really? How is this any different than all the other twists and turns of any other person in the LGBT family? I am a lesbian, involved with someone who is transitioning to becoming who he is, a female bodied person. Until then, we accept his male body that serves his femaleness. How is that hard to understand? If you can turn on a light switch, you can turn on your mind to accept this too. Calling me closeted was foundationally transphobic. And I wont accept it...

I have tried to be a submissive femme because thats what I thought would make me happy. It didnt. Once I became real and honest, I came out of my own closet and accepted the FemDom in me. I have never been happier...

I am a FemDom. I am no longer struggling with my own power struggles now that I have accepted who I am and have begun living in this life.