Men with boobs.

betenoire · 05-13-2010, 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bit

I had to read this twice and then walk away and think about it before I had even a glimmer what you're talking about.

Are you saying there are happily female-ID'd Butches who go by male pronouns only online (or whose partners refer to them by male pronouns only online)--and that these Butches are not in any way male identified?

I've not come across anything like this, so I'm mystified.

Did I totally miss your meaning?

No, I don't believe June is happy about it.

I think what June is saying is that it is grody bullshit that we have created an environment where Female-ID'd Butches are perceived as "less Butch" than Male-ID'd Butches, and that this grody bullshit environment causes some Butches to succumb to the male pronoun even though they aren't necessarily feeling it, in order to avoid bullshit/drama/ridicule/etc.

EDIT - duh. you weren't saying that June was happy about it.

yes, I do believe you heard/read June correctly. yes, I am QUITE positive that happens.

apretty · 05-13-2010, 11:31 PM

grody bullshit is a perfect term--i like this whole post. and i like that we're talking about it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by betenoire

No, I don't believe June is happy about it.

I think what June is saying is that it is grody bullshit that we have created an environment where Female-ID'd Butches are perceived as "less Butch" than Male-ID'd Butches, and that this grody bullshit environment causes some Butches to succumb to the male pronoun even though they aren't necessarily feeling it, in order to avoid bullshit/drama/ridicule/etc.

EDIT - duh. you weren't saying that June was happy about it.

yes, I do believe you heard/read June correctly. yes, I am QUITE positive that happens.

yes! and i was also making the same reference, though not as concisely, here:

Quote:

Originally Posted by apretty

1. with regards to pronouns: i ask, prior and i default 'she' for butches because i know more 'she' than 'he/hy' butches and while 'he' seems a the go-to pronoun 'online' --i like continuity (and newsflash: she does not equal less-than).

Beau · 05-13-2010, 11:47 PM

I've posted about the topic of the devaluation of female and/or woman-ID butch online ad nauseum. Most recently in a thread on the "butch female in a patriarchal world" thread. http://www.butchfemmeplanet.com/foru...5&postcount=26 That was some of my reasoning, and I believe it to be valid approximately 2 months later.

So here we are again, another thread with much of the same topic discussed due to the unfortunate language of a reluctant gay icon and her limited, poor choice of vocabulary to describe her sexuality. After reading apretty's post of more of Cynthia Nixon's interview, I realized her tremendous discomfort with the public's perception of her as queer. She seems homophobic in those comments, seeking to relate to a straight world who already (falsely) believe most butch lesbians are wannabe men. Do I condemn her? No. Do I support her? No. Does it matter to me? Yes.

26 years ago I was beaten up. I shared the story on another website, but the crux of it was that these two men who punched me and threw me to the ground, who were kicking me in the kidneys and in the ribs, and who made me piss blood for a week were screaming at me, "You want to be a man?!" "You think you're a man?!!" "You fucking dyke!!" etc. etc.

I'm sort of hoping all can see the connection, but at the risk of it not being logically associated, let me make it crystal clear. I never wanted to be a man. I was just a dyke who made a poor choice myself by being in a situation that led to that beating. However, that's the only way those Neanderthals could view me -- as a "man with boobs". That's the way a good deal of society still views me, and other women like me, even today. And Cynthia Nixon's offhand remark merely gives fodder to those narrow-minded binary buffoons who'd put boxes and bars around behaviors and traits to keep the world simple and understandable for themselves.

I'm not playing. I'm not here to cater to the morons. I want the world to see me as a woman, a very masculine woman perhaps, but all woman nonetheless. So, when the medical tests I've had run this past month revealed what actually happened to my body from that beating, I found this thread and Heart's concern on a societal level relevant and valuable not just for me and my life, but for all the butch women who still risk getting beaten up just for being who they are in a world that can't see beyond rigid gender identities.

05-13-2010, 11:47 PM	#3
Beau Timed Out How Do You Identify?: . Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: . Posts: 178 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 71 Thanked 339 Times in 87 Posts Rep Power: 0	once more with feeling I've posted about the topic of the devaluation of female and/or woman-ID butch online ad nauseum. Most recently in a thread on the "butch female in a patriarchal world" thread. http://www.butchfemmeplanet.com/foru...5&postcount=26 That was some of my reasoning, and I believe it to be valid approximately 2 months later. So here we are again, another thread with much of the same topic discussed due to the unfortunate language of a reluctant gay icon and her limited, poor choice of vocabulary to describe her sexuality. After reading apretty's post of more of Cynthia Nixon's interview, I realized her tremendous discomfort with the public's perception of her as queer. She seems homophobic in those comments, seeking to relate to a straight world who already (falsely) believe most butch lesbians are wannabe men. Do I condemn her? No. Do I support her? No. Does it matter to me? Yes. 26 years ago I was beaten up. I shared the story on another website, but the crux of it was that these two men who punched me and threw me to the ground, who were kicking me in the kidneys and in the ribs, and who made me piss blood for a week were screaming at me, "You want to be a man?!" "You think you're a man?!!" "You fucking dyke!!" etc. etc. I'm sort of hoping all can see the connection, but at the risk of it not being logically associated, let me make it crystal clear. I never wanted to be a man. I was just a dyke who made a poor choice myself by being in a situation that led to that beating. However, that's the only way those Neanderthals could view me -- as a "man with boobs". That's the way a good deal of society still views me, and other women like me, even today. And Cynthia Nixon's offhand remark merely gives fodder to those narrow-minded binary buffoons who'd put boxes and bars around behaviors and traits to keep the world simple and understandable for themselves. I'm not playing. I'm not here to cater to the morons. I want the world to see me as a woman, a very masculine woman perhaps, but all woman nonetheless. So, when the medical tests I've had run this past month revealed what actually happened to my body from that beating, I found this thread and Heart's concern on a societal level relevant and valuable not just for me and my life, but for all the butch women who still risk getting beaten up just for being who they are in a world that can't see beyond rigid gender identities.