The Femme Continuum: The "Highs" and "Lows" of Visibility

[Liam]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

Liam can you share with us how this experience fits in the Femme Continuum? Do you have any other thoughts about the Femme experience?

My post was in response to Bulldog's...

Originally Posted by BullDog

There seems to be awful lot of rules for what women can look like (and act like) and be seen and taken seriously as queer/lesbian.

It seems hyper feminine is seen as the top of the femme hierarchy (most valued) but at the same time seen as the most suspect (supposedly more straight appearing), in terms of being legitimately queer/lesbian.

Why is feminine associated with straight and masculine associated with lesbian/queer when it comes to women?

particularly the statement I bolded. My experience has been that masculine is not associated with lesbian, and that is the only point I was making. As I stated earlier, that is the only comment I would be making in this thread, but thanks for asking.

[BullDog]

I believe you may have misunderstood me, but there is an entire thread already discussing how masculine women are seen. I believe that women that have what is perceived to be a feminine appearance are usually read as straight.

[SuperFemme]

Originally Posted by BullDog

I believe you may have misunderstood me, but there is an entire thread already discussing how masculine women are seen. I believe that women that have what is perceived to be a feminine appearance are usually read as straight.

That is how I read it. That Femme is perceived and read as straight, whereas Butch seems to be read as Queer most times.

[BullDog]

Originally Posted by SuperFemme

That is how I read it. That Femme is perceived and read as straight, whereas Butch seems to be read as Queer most times.

Yes and many masculine women who are not butch or lesbian/queer are often read as lesbian/queer as well.

I guess my point was, the standard for lesbian/queer seems to lean more towards the androgynous/masculine side than to the feminine side.

[SuperFemme]

Originally Posted by BullDog

Yes and many masculine women who are not butch or lesbian/queer are often read as lesbian/queer as well.

I guess my point was, the standard for lesbian/queer seems to lean more towards the androgynous/masculine side than to the feminine side.

I wonder why that is? Is it just THAT ingrained? Remember when K.D. Lang was on the cover of some magazine with Cindy Crawford giving her a shave?

On one hand it was kind of hot, just because I adore K.D. Lang. But it kind of pissed me off that she was up there with a hyper feminine straight girl. I felt uber icky about that.

[Linus]

Originally Posted by SuperFemme

I wonder why that is? Is it just THAT ingrained? Remember when K.D. Lang was on the cover of some magazine with Cindy Crawford giving her a shave?

On one hand it was kind of hot, just because I adore K.D. Lang. But it kind of pissed me off that she was up there with a hyper feminine straight girl. I felt uber icky about that.

What femme lesbians existed back then? How would you know? (and I'm thinking mainstream media models -- IIRC, this was for a fashion magazine)

I think that was one of the prime examples of femmes being invisible (I know Crawford -- or at least I believe she isn't -- gay but how would we know?).

[SuperFemme]

Originally Posted by Linus

What femme lesbians existed back then? How would you know? (and I'm thinking mainstream media models -- IIRC, this was for a fashion magazine)

I think that was one of the prime examples of femmes being invisible (I know Crawford -- or at least I believe she isn't -- gay but how would we know?).

What mainstream media models of femme exist NOW for that matter?

[DamselFly]

as to the continuum, i've been all over the place as to outer appearances:in the beginning wearing "the uniform" back in the 70s, if y'all remember that: looking as girly as could be, and frequently mistaken for a straight woman (which i HATE), and now somewhere in the middle, i guess, wearing short hair b/c of being a Roshi and jeans around the farm, but dresses or feminine pants and shirts, polished nails, lipstick, etc when i go to town. if i go in my "farmhand attire", i run the risk of being mistaken for a kid, even by other kids, lol.
i do think that femmes get judged both ways by the way they dress, and that there IS a hierarchy from "High femme" being the Queen Bee, so to speak, and "low femme" being seen as an androgyne in hiding, though if you're "High femme", you sometimes get castigated for being "too straight" and "low femme", you're not seen at all.
i really dislike this hierarchy, though i've seen less expectation of it here than on some other sites and some other real time places. to me a femme is a femme, and how she chooses to express herself is her (and if she wishes, her partner's) business. i am no less a femme b/c i am not constantly in dresses w/high heels, my make-up always so, etc. my current lifestyle does not permit that, even if i still wanted it. as i've grown older, i've become more myself and less what i thought the world, even the B/f world, wanted. i am a Roshi, so my hair is very short. because of my modesty code, i wear longer usually free-flowing skirts or dresses, when i'm not in "farmhand attire". because i walk with a cane, heels are no longer an option. i realize that this puts me "out of the radar" of some butches, but then, i wouldn't be accepted as me, even if somehow noticed. i want S/someone who wants me for me! i'm very up-front about who i am! (as if Y/you hadn't noticed that by now, lol.)
my 2 cents.
DamselFly