Some labels do not include trans in the definition

[little man]

Originally Posted by Linus

It's the idea that we always categorize "transsexed" (I'm a little icky about this as it feels like we're transgressing on intersexed individuals -- ah, English. Such a fun language) individuals as always "trans" man or "trans" woman.

Some female bodied, male-identified do not identify with the "trans" idea, whether before, during or after medical treatment or even without. They see themselves as male only. No trans anything.

The thought that started this was whether the LGBTQ community assumes that someone like me has to be trans (I do identify as trans but I'm experience as an example rather than using someone else).

Does that clarify?

could you elaborate on "someone like me"?

also, are you asking whether to be a part of the lgbtq community, one would have to identify as trans forever and a day, or would dropping the trans descriptor bar you from membership?

[Linus]

Originally Posted by little man

could you elaborate on "someone like me"?

Me, as someone who was assigned female at birth but is male.

also, are you asking whether to be a part of the lgbtq community, one would have to identify as trans forever and a day, or would dropping the trans descriptor bar you from membership?

No. I'm not thinking of forever. I'm thinking of starting from the beginning. Of never having trans as part of their identity.

[Jess]

Originally Posted by Linus

Me, as someone who was assigned female at birth but is male.



No. I'm not thinking of forever. I'm thinking of starting from the beginning. Of never having trans as part of their identity.

I have always wondered about this as well. Please understand that I ask questions about things I don't understand and appreciate when folks are able or willing to help explain it. I do try to gather info from different sources, as everyone's experience is not the same.

As the years have passed and so many more folks are able now to transition more easily ( or are choosing to do so) than in years past, I have wondered at what point do those who have transitioned ( or became what they were from birth) stop using the "trans"itional descriptor and just use man or woman.

For me, it is much more confusing to use the "trans" sexxed/gender than to not, as I can often times not tell when the person wishes it as part of their nomenclature. Much easier to say "man" "woman", "other" ya know?

I never know for example, when it is that they are trying to remain honoring their past female experience ( in the case of FTM's) or if like Wil was asking, if it is still being used to remain a part of the queer community ( not that it needs validation). I don't know, so I ask. I think anyone who feels a part of the queer community probably is, coz like my Dad told me "it's a hard path you are choosing" and I don't see many heterosexual folks chomping at the bit to have no rights and be the object of social ostracism.

I do very much thank everyone for touching on this subject.

[apretty]

trans: i always associate the term "trans" as a kind of broad, ending up in some place other than where you originated.

prior, and maybe still sometimes when i forget that it's just not my business, i was confused by women who trans-itioned from F to be in a state of trans, FTM but not ...Male?.

anyway, i'm probably off topic again.

[little man]

Originally Posted by apretty

trans: i always associate the term "trans" as a kind of broad, ending up in some place other than where you originated.

prior, and maybe still sometimes when i forget that it's just not my business, i was confused by women who trans-itioned from F to be in a state of trans, FTM but not ...Male?.

anyway, i'm probably off topic again.

kinda like transportation? moving from point a to point b?

i think, for me, this might just well be the case...that the 'trans' aspect is the place(s) i am until i arrive. i'm just not sure there is an actual arrival point. but, that would be my interior life. life in the world? i figure being taken at face value as a man means i've arrived. no one who sees me face to face calls me ma'am. could be the mustache, could be the bald spot. or, it could be that my overall presentation is what they expect to see from a man.

side note: i view male and man as two distinctly different things.

[EnderD_503]

I think this is a great topic because many people don't really understand how someone could consider themselves the opposite of the biological sex they were assigned at birth while not considering themselves trans-anything. Not FtM/MtF, not Transman/Transwoman, not transsexual, not transgender etc. I noticed a lot of the same confusion in the FtM vs. Male Id'd Butch thread, I think it was.

To answer Linus' question, no I definitely don't consider all those who were assigned the wrong biological sex at birth always trans-something. Why would they need to be? It's all highly individual, since there are many ways someone assigned the wrong biological sex can identify and various courses of action that can be taken to make one feel more at peace with one's body. Also, whichever course a person takes, does not make them any less/more of something than anyone else, imo. Some may consider themselves transmen/women but not male or female, while others consider themselves third gender, something else entirely, a mixture of the two or certain aspects of the two, others consider themselves strictly male/female but not trans, some retain/take on butch/femme or any other label they feel suits them.

I would consider a person the gender/sex they've expressed themselves as, not the one I think they are by my own definition. Why should I create somebody elses label? I think the only reason a person would do so would be due to their own inhibitions regarding gender/sex, and generally being uncomfortable with certain gender expressions. Personally, I consider myself both male and butch, still a part of the b/f dynamic and not trans or female (distinguishing biological and neurological) or anything else, and would extend the same courtesy toward others as I would like to receive myself. I think I would be pretty hypocritical if I did otherwise, and I think doing so polices gender.

I also don't understand the idea that somehow if someone who was born one biological sex and considers/understands themselves to be of the opposite sex, they should no longer be a part of the b/f dynamic or lgbt community. We, of all people, should understand the variety found in human gender expression. Male, butch, trans, femme, female etc. are not mutually exclusive.