Expectations of FTMs/transsexed men (Dylan's thread)

[Dylan]

Originally Posted by Emmy

What I was wondering about, and perhaps not articulating well, was whether wishing to date or to partner with men who belong to this community, specifically, was necessarily undermining. (Maybe it is, btw- not meant to be a rhetorical question...)

To me (and speaking only from my me place), I don't see dating people within One's community as undermining anything. Personally, if someone told me they ONLY date FTMs, I have no problem with that either. I wonder how someone would KNOW an FTM on the street from any other man, but...

I (me, me, me) DO wonder is IF and DO folks in this community who date men feel the need to either A) 'hide' that for fear of 'having their community card' taken away or B) constantly ID their partner (in some way) as 'formerly woman' or 'female bodied' for (again) fear of 'having their community card taken away'

I know very well the crap married/formerly married folks, bisexual folks, folks who partner with guys get/have gotten over the years in this community, and I just seriously wonder if this makes some people feel the need to constantly refer to their partner as FTM/trans/etc instead of just 'guy' or 'man'. Like if those people feel maybe they'll get less 'flack' and deal with less 'explaining' if they constantly refer to their partner as 'formerly-woman'.

Honestly, if One is dating only butches and transmen...I have to kind of wonder A) how do you know who's trans and who's not and B) are you seeing transmen as 'really butch women'?


Dylan

[TCB]

This is a great thread. Dylan, I always love your posts-thanks for speaking exactly what I'm thinking at times.

I shall continue to follow this thread....

[betenoire]

Originally Posted by BullDog

If a queer femme is to see trans men exactly as they see non-trans men, then in order to be attracted to a trans man she's supposed to be attracted to all men? How does this work if one is queer?

Well, I'm Queer. And I am attracted to Butches, FTMs, non-trans-guys, Drew Barrymore, Jack Black, and whoever happens to be providing me with coffee. I am quite open about my bi/pansexuality. (I hate the term pansexual because it has the word "pan" in it - irrationally.) If I weren't married and monogamous now god only knows who I would be with - but I was still dating people who were born with a penis right up until the time I started dating my spouse.

I feel like you're excluding those of us who aren't lesbians from your definition of Queer. I'm not liking it.

Originally Posted by Dylan

Shock of all shocks

Queer does NOT mean lesbian...this is NOT a lesbian community, this is a QUEER community, and QUEER doesn't mean lesbian

Nope, sure doesn't.

Originally Posted by TenderKnight

Mmmm.. You don't need to be attracted to ALL men.. But, if a queer femme is attracted to me, I would want them to be attracted to me as the man I am and always have been, rather then as someone that was a woman and now looks like a man.. you know?

Exactly. What things look like -TO ME- is a whole lot of people are attracted to the FT part of FTM.

Originally Posted by Dylan

Honestly, if One is dating only butches and transmen...I have to kind of wonder A) how do you know who's trans and who's not and B) are you seeing transmen as 'really butch women'?

In the case of some (not all) people B is what I generally suspect. I see it in real life a lot.

I come from a pretty huge city, so I have had the pleasure of being acquainted with a zillion different people. And a really big chunk (we're talking well more than half, here) of the REAL LIFE transmen I know will only date women who -do- date both trans and non-trans men. And these -are- transmen who I met in the Queer community. (I actually don't have any friends who aren't part of the Queer community - because that's who I choose to pal around with.) All I know (and this is in pretty stark contrast to what I see online) is that the majority of my FTM friends feel that it's very important to know that the people they date are attracted to who they ARE and not who they "were" or some journey they supposedly have gone on.

Also - I don't get where people are under the impression that anybody is putting the weight of understanding on the shoulder of Femmes and expecting nobody else to understand anything? Maybe I missed the post that has given people that impression - but it reads as very knee-jerky to me.

[BullDog]

Betenoire, I don't think all queers are lesbians. I don't think all queer femmes are lesbians. There I've said it twice now- this time with a little refinement.

[BullDog]

Originally Posted by betenoire

Well, I'm Queer. And I am attracted to Butches, FTMs, non-trans-guys, Drew Barrymore, Jack Black, and whoever happens to be providing me with coffee. I am quite open about my bi/pansexuality. (I hate the term pansexual because it has the word "pan" in it - irrationally.) If I weren't married and monogamous now god only knows who I would be with - but I was still dating people who were born with a penis right up until the time I started dating my spouse.

I feel like you're excluding those of us who aren't lesbians from your definition of Queer. I'm not liking it.



Nope, sure doesn't.



Exactly. What things look like -TO ME- is a whole lot of people are attracted to the FT part of FTM.



In the case of some (not all) people B is what I generally suspect. I see it in real life a lot.

I come from a pretty huge city, so I have had the pleasure of being acquainted with a zillion different people. And a really big chunk (we're talking well more than half, here) of the REAL LIFE transmen I know will only date women who -do- date both trans and non-trans men. And these -are- transmen who I met in the Queer community. (I actually don't have any friends who aren't part of the Queer community - because that's who I choose to pal around with.) All I know (and this is in pretty stark contrast to what I see online) is that the majority of my FTM friends feel that it's very important to know that the people they date are attracted to who they ARE and not who they "were" or some journey they supposedly have gone on.

Also - I don't get where people are under the impression that anybody is putting the weight of understanding on the shoulder of Femmes and expecting nobody else to understand anything? Maybe I missed the post that has given people that impression - but it reads as very knee-jerky to me.

Well, if there are transmen who will only date women who will date both trans and non-transmen, then that's there preference. My first thought is do the women dating them have any rules of their own, like say see me for the queer that I am and not just interchangeable with straight women? Then again, what would I know. I am just a simple lesbian.