The Female Male ID "Wars"... or Great Divide

[Kobi]

Hi Jo,

You might be surprised that I agree with a lot that you say. I am 54. I am tired of being a freakin activist in my personal and public and professional life. I've fought all the battles I really want to fight. But, If I dont speak to the sexism and misogyny now and then as a reminder to people that it hasnt gone away, I am implicitly or explicitly agreeing to be a willing participant in my own victimization. It sucks the big one.

And, I dont hate men per se. I have brothers and nephews and male friends. I love them even when they are being shitheads. I am very cautious with them and suspicious of their motives.

Women being good role models for the men/males in their lives is a terrific tribute to all women. And sometimes we do accomplish more on a more to one basis because we change hearts. Changing a heart lasts generations.
You must be very proud of your son as he is of you.

I doubt we will see equality or the end of all the isms in my lifetime either.

Thanks for sharing.

Originally Posted by JustJo

Hi Kobi,

I don't feel like you're on a soapbox...I feel like you're stating your mind and your heart, and I'm always in favor of that.

To the other points...yes....ALL of that bothers me. I'm 48 years old...and it frustrates me beyond all description that the ERA never passed, and everyone seems to have let it all fall by the wayside.

It bothers me that I had to go back to college for 4 years to get an MBA so that I could make the same "decent" living that a whole lot of men can make with a high school diploma.

It bothers me that while women are gaining with regard to pay equity, we are still nowhere close...and probably won't be in my working lifetime.

Lots of things bother me. Racism bothers me. Sexism bothers me. People talking to me like I'm an idiot bothers me. People who drive slow in the left lane bother me. What we're doing to our environment bothers me.

Here's the other thing though. I have to live in the world every day. If I rant at everything that bothers me every day, then I will literally die. My health can't handle that.

I value peace. I value compromise. I value getting along with others as much as possible. I value speaking my own truth and letting others speak their own too.

I don't hate men. That's an interesting position for me. I have never, in my lifetime, been able to count on a single male person for anything. I was raised by a single mother. My grandfather was a child molester that I had to defend my 4 year old cousin from when I was 16. I was gang raped at 14. I have been ripped off, lied to, molested, raped, used, belittled, humiliated, coerced and disregarded - by men.

Here's my other reality. I am the mother of a son, and I live in a world that is composed of men as well as women.

I will speak my truth, live my life and push my own agenda as far as I can, but I choose to do it without trampling over others as much as I possibly can. That doesn't mean I'm not angry. It doesn't mean I don't see injustice.

Here's what I also believe. Change ...REAL change...is slow. Very slow. That sucks, but it's reality. My son doesn't believe the crap about women being "less than" that his father and grandfather believe. In large part, that's because of who I am and how I live.

I honestly don't believe that I will see equality and the end to misogyny in my lifetime. That's a shame. However, I will do my part by living as an example of a strong, resilient, capable woman...and I will raise a son that is one step closer.

That's where I come from. It's different than where you come from, or from most (or maybe all) of the others who have posted here. I think we all have to do it in our own way. It doesn't mean that my way is more valid than yours...or vice versa.

[Gayla]

Kobi -

I am almost 44. I've been out for a very long time. I've been involved in lesbian, feminist, separatist communities/politics/activism since I was, essentially, a child. I "get" your experiences in ways that many people may not because mine have been very similar. I've fought for "women space". I've marched in the streets, spoken at rallies, been published numerous times, had my name smeared in many different places. I embraced my lesbian identity with everything I had including my Birkenstocks, labrys earring and Chris Williamson albums. I cried the day I found out Holly Near was sleeping with a man and I cheered the day kd lang hit the cover of GQ. Up until I moved to Seattle, every job I've had was in some way seen as a professional queer. I've worked in non-profits, worked in a feminist bookstore, managed a gay/lesbian bookstore, owned a gay bar, and worked as a therapist in an inpatient chemical dependency treatment center that only served gay & lesbian clients.

So yeah, I "get" it and we come from places of common reference points.

Based on those reference points, I guess I'm still not really understanding what it is about the site that makes you question whether you belong here. There's never been a time in my life where I wasn't butch, even when it was seen as a negative in the lesbian-feminist community. It's as much a part of me as my big ears and the mole on my left shoulder. So when I see an online community that is called "Butch Femme Planet", there is no doubt that this is a place for me.

Yes, there is a huge amount of diversity in this community. There are people here that are just like me and a bunch that are very different. Knowing that other people don't share my same definitions, beliefs and values about "what butch is" doesn't diminish my place in the community or in any way make me see myself as other or not belonging.

You've talked about a lot of different things, and I know you've mentioned a few different things in different contexts, but I really am curious about what types of things, to you and others that feel the same way, lead you to think you don't belong here?