Stone Femme?

[BullDog]

Yes of course Dapper. And there are some Stones who only want to date/partner with other Stones and that is absolutely their right.

I personally have found many femmes who are happy and fulfilled either way. So for me, it is more likely I will be compatible with a stone femme but don't think it's an absolute requirement that they specifically id that way.

I have also had a few femmes who id as stone femmes tell me they have dated/partnered with butches and FTMs who did not specifically id as Stone but their preferences and how they related to each other still matched well, so it wasn't an issue.

[girl_dee]

Originally Posted by DapperButch

Bull Dog, girl dee, just giving my opinion, based on my experiences and preferences.

of course, thats what we are all doing

[Gemme]

Originally Posted by girl_dee

of course, thats what we are all doing

Yep.

In the Femme Zone.

[BullDog]

There have been butches and FTMs participating in this thread from the very beginning. And femmes participate all the time - and I do mean all the time - in butch threads. A recent example - About Butches Q & A. I am happy for their input.

There are clearly threads that should be femme-only or butch-only. I wasn't aware this was one of them.

[girl_dee]

Originally Posted by BullDog

There have been butches and FTMs participating in this thread from the very beginning. And femmes participate all the time - and I do mean all the time - in butch threads. A recent example - About Butches Q & A. I am happy for their input.

There are clearly threads that should be femme-only or butch-only. I wasn't aware this was one of them.

Honestly i don’t post in butch zone threads. i appreciate them SO much and enjoy reading but feel its a no post zone for me.

It does bother me when we cross post, i do feel we should have our space on each side. Its just been done so much, it’s just what happens...

[Gemme]

It's not a 'never enter' thing, Bully. It's a 'I was excited that this thread was active again' only to see that half the new posts came from outside the femme scope.

You are right. None of us have a place that's 'just ours' anymore, so just ignore my frustration. I can always unsubscribe.

*shrug*

[BullDog]

Gemme, I just feel it is a very big double standard, because femmes do post a great deal in the butch zone and it never seems to be an issue, but when butches are in the femme zone feathers fly. I do see threads where it is clearly inappropriate. Anyway, I am happy to not post in the Femme Zone from now on.

Sorry for the derail.

[DapperButch]

Originally Posted by Gemme

Yep.

In the Femme Zone.

Originally Posted by BullDog

Gemme, I just feel it is a very big double standard, because femmes do post a great deal in the butch zone and it never seems to be an issue, but when butches are in the femme zone feathers fly. I do see threads where it is clearly inappropriate. Anyway, I am happy to not post in the Femme Zone from now on.

Sorry for the derail.

It is true that there are some femmes who post in butch threads all of the time. I have not said anything about it because if someone says something the response you hear is that we are supposed to write in the OP that it is for <gender> only. However, I personally think that if the thread is to ask a certain group a question, only that group should respond.

With that said, after I posted I sort of panicked and went back and read the first post. It looks like it is a thread for stone femmes along with input open to butches (and now skimming through it looks like people of all stripes participated). It noted that it was a thread to be a counterpart of the Stone Butch thread at the time.

Anyway, even though I saw butches were allowed to come in, I felt weird about it, which is why I wrote such a brief response to Bull Dog and girl dee.

Gemme, I think there is another Stone Femme thread out there that only has Stone Femme participants. I am definitely one for support specific group only spaces.

[CherylNYC]

Back to the discussion- I'm one of those stone femmes who doesn't want to risk dating a non-stone butch. I know I'll just be waiting for the inevitable, excruciating moment when they tell me they're not satisfied with my boundaries. I'm still not confident enough about it to risk that.

My most recent ex was 100% stone. What a relief! I felt no pressure and no insecurity. That part of our relationship was so pleasantly comfortable and relaxed. She told me she was similarly relieved. I want that level of comfort in any future relationship, so I think I'm going to have to stick with stone butches exclusively.

[girl_dee]

Originally Posted by CherylNYC

Back to the discussion- I'm one of those stone femmes who doesn't want to risk dating a non-stone butch. I know I'll just be waiting for the inevitable, excruciating moment when they tell me they're not satisfied with my boundaries. I'm still not confident enough about it to risk that.

My most recent ex was 100% stone. What a relief! I felt no pressure and no insecurity. That part of our relationship was so pleasantly comfortable and relaxed. She told me she was similarly relieved. I want that level of comfort in any future relationship, so I think I'm going to have to stick with stone butches exclusively.

[COLOR="Navy”]it’s awesome when you find someone who matches your desires. It’t not easy in our community.

There are so many variables within stone and non-stone, it’s hard to find someone that matches them perfectly. [/COLOR]

[dark_crystal]

Stone butches will experience me as stone, non-stone butches will experience me as flexible.

The receptive role is default for me, but I will provide any service that is requested, and enjoy both being asked and being complaint. They do have to request it, though, i am never going to seek out the active role.

I enjoy performing those services but i don't feel deprived when i am with someone who does not request any particular thing. Some butches are into queening and some never take off their pants and i'm just there making sure they get what they need.

[Medusa]

I happy with responses from all identities on whatever I post in here jtbo.

I checked back to see if I had ever posted in here and was surprised to see that I hadn't (or maybe not surprised).

I've never identified as a StoneFemme but have been identified as a StoneFemme based on being partnered to folks who identified as Stone or "Touch me not" (their term).
The thing I remember from back in the day on the Dash site is how surprised I was to find that there are folks out there who don't enjoy certain things. Granted, I was 22 when I found the Dash site and had dated/partnered with people up until that point where anything went. So began my education!

I remember reading that some folks used the term "Stone" to mean "very", as in "I'm Femme and never take on or am perceived as any other identity", and that's an oversimplification but the gist of it was more about identity than sexual behavior.
Because some of those StoneFemmes would talk openly about the kind of sex they were having with their partners and it didn't sound like anything was out of bounds.
Still, overwhelmingly I think "Stone" is defined by what touch is and is not allowed.

I dated someone in my very early 20s (who has never been a member of the B-F community but who did identify as Butch) who said that nothing was off-limits with her sexually but I found that wasn't true. I don't think she was misrepresenting herself or anything, just that she saw herself as a lot freer with her sexual boundaries than she actually was. And this is not a judgment at all, just an observation on her own self-perception.
I did find myself a little frustrated toward the end of our time dating because I found myself in the position of "always receiver", which was GREAT, but wasn't as fulfilling for me as being a full participant would have been.
(and yes, I'm being delicate here LOL)

Navigating desire can be tricky for sure but I have found that being 100% honest about what you do and don't like right up front goes a long way. And you know? It's ok to say to someone "I am not really into x, y, z right now but that could change", as long as it's not a dangling carrot or a manipulative thing.
We certainly don't owe access to our bodies to anyone and we always always always get to define our desires for ourselves. I've been super appreciative of the people I have dated who were in touch with their desires enough to say to me "Yeah, I am not ever going to want x, y, z" because if that x,y,z thing is something that REALLY does it for me sexually, I definitely want to know right up front if that is available to me or not.

EH, I'm rambling but hell, it's been a while since I've posted anything other than bullshit so here it is. LOL

[girl_dee]

Originally Posted by Medusa

SNIP
I've never identified as a StoneFemme but have been identified as a StoneFemme based on being partnered to folks who identified as Stone or "Touch me not" (their term).

This. This is what i was referring to earlier.

[dark_crystal]

Originally Posted by dark_crystal

Stone butches will experience me as stone, non-stone butches will experience me as flexible.

The receptive role is default for me, but I will provide any service that is requested, and enjoy both being asked and being complaint. They do have to request it, though, i am never going to seek out the active role.

I enjoy performing those services but i don't feel deprived when i am with someone who does not request any particular thing. Some butches are into queening and some never take off their pants and i'm just there making sure they get what they need.

Reply to rep q: "Queening" = facesitting

[CherylNYC]

Originally Posted by girl_dee

...
Stone /not stone is not my identity, its a sexual behavior IMO

Is stone-ness an identity, a behavioral boundary, or simply a behavior? One butch who has posted in butch-femme forums, as well as in an online bdsm site, (there seems to be a lot of overlap), has written a gorgeous defense of the Stone Butch identity as a state of the soul. Stone-ness as a metaphor. The impenetrability of the Stone Butch (capitalized as a proper noun and a signal of dominance) as a social/spiritual identity. If I could easily find that post I would link to it here. It's hard not to be convinced with language that beautiful and emotionally anchored.

For better or worse, that doesn't apply to me. Being a stonefemme is an important part of who I am, and I'm both empowered and limited by it. My stonefemme identity is core for me, but it is NOT a social identity or a spiritual state for me as it seems to be for some others. It does, however, seem to be very connected to my core identity as a sexual submissive. Being strictly a catcher means that I'm the receptive, submissive counterpart to a sexually dominant partner. In bed. I'm not behaving as a catcher. I AM a catcher. I can't pitch, and I'm not interested in entertaining requests to do so. That would be sex I don't want to have. Whether I'm coerced into it by a badgering date/partner, (If you really cared about me and my needs....), or if I press myself into the act, (I'm a LESBIAN fer Pete's sake! Why can't I do this?), engaging in sex I don't want is a very bad idea. One stonefemme friend described forcing herself to penetrate her butch partner at a time prior to knowing her own boundaries as raping herself. Yes, it has felt that way to me, too. So... no. I would never call it a simple behavior choice. Not for me. It's part of my identity, just as being a lesbian is my identity.

Would a femme without her own stone boundaries, who respects the boundaries of her stone butch partner, subsequently be called a stonefemme because she is behaving as one? Everyone can self identify in all the ways of their own choosing, but I wouldn't call that person a stonefemme. Being a stonefemme means those are your own boundaries.

And because I couldn't turn off the feminist critique even if my life depended on it, I have to add that I think it's incredibly important for women to define ourselves rather than to define who we are in relationship to our partners.

[DapperButch]

Originally Posted by CherylNYC

Is stone-ness an identity, a behavioral boundary, or simply a behavior? One butch who has posted in butch-femme forums, as well as in an online bdsm site, (there seems to be a lot of overlap), has written a gorgeous defense of the Stone Butch identity as a state of the soul. Stone-ness as a metaphor. The impenetrability of the Stone Butch (capitalized as a proper noun and a signal of dominance) as a social/spiritual identity. If I could easily find that post I would link to it here. It's hard not to be convinced with language that beautiful and emotionally anchored.

For better or worse, that doesn't apply to me. Being a stonefemme is an important part of who I am, and I'm both empowered and limited by it.My stonefemme identity is core for me, but it is NOT a social identity or a spiritual state for me as it seems to be for some others. It does, however, seem to be very connected to my core identity as a sexual submissive. Being strictly a catcher means that I'm the receptive, submissive counterpart to a sexually dominant partner. In bed. I'm not behaving as a catcher. I AM a catcher. I can't pitch, and I'm not interested in entertaining requests to do so. That would be sex I don't want to have. Whether I'm coerced into it by a badgering date/partner, (If you really cared about me and my needs....), or if I press myself into the act, (I'm a LESBIAN fer Pete's sake! Why can't I do this?), engaging in sex I don't want is a very bad idea. One stonefemme friend described forcing herself to penetrate her butch partner at a time prior to knowing her own boundaries as raping herself. Yes, it has felt that way to me, too. So... no. I would never call it a simple behavior choice. Not for me. It's part of my identity, just as being a lesbian is my identity.

Would a femme without her own stone boundaries, who respects the boundaries of her stone butch partner, subsequently be called a stonefemme because she is behaving as one? Everyone can self identify in all the ways of their own choosing, but I wouldn't call that person a stonefemme. Being a stonefemme means those are your own boundaries.

And because I couldn't turn off the feminist critique even if my life depended on it, I have to add that I think it's incredibly important for women to define ourselves rather than to define who we are in relationship to our partners.

Great post. Thank you. Being Stone is not about behavior in relation to one's partners boundaries at all. It is about our own boundaries and for those who identify as Stone, part of their identity.

[~ocean]

We are all our own woman ~ I am what I am ~ no one can define me ~ just saying

[girl_dee]

Originally Posted by DapperButch

Great post. Thank you. Being Stone is not about behavior in relation to one's partners boundaries at all.

Dapper you do realize not all of us femmes share in your opinion here?

[DapperButch]

Originally Posted by girl_dee

Dapper you do realize not all of us femmes share in your opinion here?

dee,

Yes, I understand that you do not see Stone as a identity, you said, "Stone /not stone is not my identity, its a sexual behavior IMO"

Cheryl quoted the above and said that for her, Stone is an identity. I highlighted her post to say that I too saw Stone as an identity, rather than just a behavior.

The only additional thing I said that she didn't say is that it is common for Stones to see this as part of their identity. That is why people list Stone in the identity section of their profiles.

I don't understand why my post rubbed you the wrong way. I am truly scratching my head.

I am going to bow out of the thread like a couple others have.

[Shystonefem]

Originally Posted by CherylNYC

Is stone-ness an identity, a behavioral boundary, or simply a behavior? One butch who has posted in butch-femme forums, as well as in an online bdsm site, (there seems to be a lot of overlap), has written a gorgeous defense of the Stone Butch identity as a state of the soul. Stone-ness as a metaphor. The impenetrability of the Stone Butch (capitalized as a proper noun and a signal of dominance) as a social/spiritual identity. If I could easily find that post I would link to it here. It's hard not to be convinced with language that beautiful and emotionally anchored.

For better or worse, that doesn't apply to me. Being a stonefemme is an important part of who I am, and I'm both empowered and limited by it. My stonefemme identity is core for me, but it is NOT a social identity or a spiritual state for me as it seems to be for some others. It does, however, seem to be very connected to my core identity as a sexual submissive. Being strictly a catcher means that I'm the receptive, submissive counterpart to a sexually dominant partner. In bed. I'm not behaving as a catcher. I AM a catcher. I can't pitch, and I'm not interested in entertaining requests to do so. That would be sex I don't want to have. Whether I'm coerced into it by a badgering date/partner, (If you really cared about me and my needs....), or if I press myself into the act, (I'm a LESBIAN fer Pete's sake! Why can't I do this?), engaging in sex I don't want is a very bad idea. One stonefemme friend described forcing herself to penetrate her butch partner at a time prior to knowing her own boundaries as raping herself. Yes, it has felt that way to me, too. So... no. I would never call it a simple behavior choice. Not for me. It's part of my identity, just as being a lesbian is my identity.

Would a femme without her own stone boundaries, who respects the boundaries of her stone butch partner, subsequently be called a stonefemme because she is behaving as one? Everyone can self identify in all the ways of their own choosing, but I wouldn't call that person a stonefemme. Being a stonefemme means those are your own boundaries.

And because I couldn't turn off the feminist critique even if my life depended on it, I have to add that I think it's incredibly important for women to define ourselves rather than to define who we are in relationship to our partners.

Exactly what you said