Trans or Butch

[imperfect_cupcake]

Aside to Dapper - because hormones change things in your brain and body. Your brain *is* part of your body and part of your endocrine system. So when you take hormones, it will change your brain function.

I've taken hormones for 12 years now. It's changed me mentally and physically.

Hormones control *everything* in our bodies and minds.

This is an incredible and fabulous BBC story about the action and history of hormones by a professor of endocrinology and wonderful storyteller - this is NOT a "boring ol documentary"

It's a beautifully done woven story of history and biology by someone passionate and a crew who love delivering knowledge to general public folk.

This IS NOT a "don't take hormones" post. This is a "why hormones change you so much" post. I only got to study the endocrine system for 3 months, which is nothing, it's the most fucking confusing system in the body and it governs everything. If you think the nervous system is confusing, it has nothing on our hormones.

I'm deeply grateful for the hormones I take. I'd be in agonising chronic pain, unable to work. But they have changed my personality, how I see things, how I react, because that's just hormones. They affect the brain because the brain is part of your body. Personally, I think it changed me for the better.

Anyway, here's the link - please do watch it, it's amazing.

Fantastical World of Hormones

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rsjva0z0-8k

[DapperButch]

Thank you so much!! I'll watch this.

Originally Posted by imperfect_cupcake

Aside to Dapper - because hormones change things in your brain and body. Your brain *is* part of your body and part of your endocrine system. So when you take hormones, it will change your brain function.

I've taken hormones for 12 years now. It's changed me mentally and physically.

Hormones control *everything* in our bodies and minds.

This is an incredible and fabulous BBC story about the action and history of hormones by a professor of endocrinology and wonderful storyteller - this is NOT a "boring ol documentary"

It's a beautifully done woven story of history and biology by someone passionate and a crew who love delivering knowledge to general public folk.

This IS NOT a "don't take hormones" post. This is a "why hormones change you so much" post. I only got to study the endocrine system for 3 months, which is nothing, it's the most fucking confusing system in the body and it governs everything. If you think the nervous system is confusing, it has nothing on our hormones.

I'm deeply grateful for the hormones I take. I'd be in agonising chronic pain, unable to work. But they have changed my personality, how I see things, how I react, because that's just hormones. They affect the brain because the brain is part of your body. Personally, I think it changed me for the better.

Anyway, here's the link - please do watch it, it's amazing.

Fantastical World of Hormones

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rsjva0z0-8k

[Femminator]

Originally Posted by JDeere

I do not see myself as butch female. Butch yes woman no. I prefer male pronouns. I teeter on the trans/butch spectrum and some folks can't understand it.

All this gender talk confuses me but i live in a black and white world, grew up in one as well and alot of this new fanagled terms/ labels or what not confuse me.

Just be yourself, thats the best advice i can give.

My partner is the same. They struggled with the trans/Butch spectrum and now via 2 yrs therapy have identified as a Non binary or Transmasculine Butch. They are certain they don't fit int he gender binary and only is having top surgery, maybe some T for voice. However, does not identify as Trans. It's been a journey for us to say the least! They also grew up with black and white labels and it's really been tough.

[JDeere]

Originally Posted by Femminator

My partner is the same. They struggled with the trans/Butch spectrum and now via 2 yrs therapy have identified as a Non binary or Transmasculine Butch. They are certain they don't fit int he gender binary and only is having top surgery, maybe some T for voice. However, does not identify as Trans. It's been a journey for us to say the least! They also grew up with black and white labels and it's really been tough.

Awesome sauce. Im glad to.see im not alone on.my sentiment.

[DapperButch]

Originally Posted by imperfect_cupcake

Aside to Dapper - because hormones change things in your brain and body. Your brain *is* part of your body and part of your endocrine system. So when you take hormones, it will change your brain function.

I've taken hormones for 12 years now. It's changed me mentally and physically.

Hormones control *everything* in our bodies and minds.

This is an incredible and fabulous BBC story about the action and history of hormones by a professor of endocrinology and wonderful storyteller - this is NOT a "boring ol documentary"

It's a beautifully done woven story of history and biology by someone passionate and a crew who love delivering knowledge to general public folk.

This IS NOT a "don't take hormones" post. This is a "why hormones change you so much" post. I only got to study the endocrine system for 3 months, which is nothing, it's the most fucking confusing system in the body and it governs everything. If you think the nervous system is confusing, it has nothing on our hormones.

I'm deeply grateful for the hormones I take. I'd be in agonising chronic pain, unable to work. But they have changed my personality, how I see things, how I react, because that's just hormones. They affect the brain because the brain is part of your body. Personally, I think it changed me for the better.

Anyway, here's the link - please do watch it, it's amazing.

Fantastical World of Hormones

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rsjva0z0-8k

Originally Posted by DapperButch

Thank you so much!! I'll watch this.

I just settled in to watch this. It is one I have already seen.

[Lyte]

Prior to my current single status I was in an eight year relationship. Prior to that I was in a two year "girls suck" period and prior to that I was in a nine year relationship. So for about two decades, I didn't know what was going on out here... not just in the single world but the whole not straight world! I've been single for a while now and ... damn... shite has changed! Three things learned in the first few years of being single re: butches and/or trans

When I first returned to the single crowd I was asked ... many times... if I was trans. At first I was (in my head) "huh?" because in my day (20+ years ago) the trans population was ...for the most part... middle aged men deciding they were women. I've since learned that trans ... how do I say this without offending... that trans has become more... accepted... mainstream... an option ... common place ... pick whatever word you prefer to describe how the trans community has evolved in the last 20 years. And.... I've learned that butches are now seen as potentially ... possibly ... trans ... or near trans?

The second thing I learned since returning to the single crowd ... that butches have been become a rare commodity in some places. I've a few femme friends in the PNW and ALL have said that butches are hard to find! My initial reaction was ... come on now! How the hell can there be a shortage of butches in Oregon and Washington? Last time I was there... it was femmes and butches everywhere!

The last thing I've learned ...anecdotally from other LGBTQ website/forums and directly from new butch friends ... is that some butches have felt pressure to transition. Not direct pressure but a cultural ... environmental ... societal ... sort of pressure that the next logical step from butch is to trans ... as if butch is not a perfectly suitable place to be.. full stop. Of course, I'm referring to pressure from our own LGBTQ society... community... etc.

I wonder.... if there's a connection between butches becoming less common in some area and some butches feeling as though they should become trans... or that they really are trans... deep deep down ... somewhere. I don't know if there's a connection but it's a curious thing to consider.

Having said all that... I'm butch and I'm perfectly content as I am. I've no inner voice telling me that I would feel more complete or more fulfilled if I were anything else.

Having said all that and that ... the only suggestion I could make to anyone is to listen to your inner voice and your inner comfort level. Trust that what you hear ... that what you feel... is real and that it's more than enough! And... or... if what your inner self tells is that more or different is needed... then trust that too! My point being... you can trust you to know what's right for you!

[CherylNYC]

Originally Posted by Lyte

Prior to my current single status I was in an eight year relationship. Prior to that I was in a two year "girls suck" period and prior to that I was in a nine year relationship. So for about two decades, I didn't know what was going on out here... not just in the single world but the whole not straight world! I've been single for a while now and ... damn... shite has changed! Three things learned in the first few years of being single re: butches and/or trans

When I first returned to the single crowd I was asked ... many times... if I was trans. At first I was (in my head) "huh?" because in my day (20+ years ago) the trans population was ...for the most part... middle aged men deciding they were women. I've since learned that trans ... how do I say this without offending... that trans has become more... accepted... mainstream... an option ... common place ... pick whatever word you prefer to describe how the trans community has evolved in the last 20 years. And.... I've learned that butches are now seen as potentially ... possibly ... trans ... or near trans?

The second thing I learned since returning to the single crowd ... that butches have been become a rare commodity in some places. I've a few femme friends in the PNW and ALL have said that butches are hard to find! My initial reaction was ... come on now! How the hell can there be a shortage of butches in Oregon and Washington? Last time I was there... it was femmes and butches everywhere!

The last thing I've learned ...anecdotally from other LGBTQ website/forums and directly from new butch friends ... is that some butches have felt pressure to transition. Not direct pressure but a cultural ... environmental ... societal ... sort of pressure that the next logical step from butch is to trans ... as if butch is not a perfectly suitable place to be.. full stop. Of course, I'm referring to pressure from our own LGBTQ society... community... etc.

I wonder.... if there's a connection between butches becoming less common in some area and some butches feeling as though they should become trans... or that they really are trans... deep deep down ... somewhere. I don't know if there's a connection but it's a curious thing to consider.

Having said all that... I'm butch and I'm perfectly content as I am. I've no inner voice telling me that I would feel more complete or more fulfilled if I were anything else.

Having said all that and that ... the only suggestion I could make to anyone is to listen to your inner voice and your inner comfort level. Trust that what you hear ... that what you feel... is real and that it's more than enough! And... or... if what your inner self tells is that more or different is needed... then trust that too! My point being... you can trust you to know what's right for you!

Yes, it's true. Butch women are a lot less common in my world, too. (NYC area) Some have transitioned medically, or they simply no longer identify as butch or as women. The part that I haven't gotten used to is that many people look exactly like butch women to me, but they identify as trans or as queer, not as butch women. It surprises me every time. I'm not sure if I'll ever get my head around it.

[JDeere]

The butches who still feel female or what have ya are what i see around here as soft butches. I just cant see a hardcore butch saying they are female. Female bodies yes but female in the brain not so much.

[Clyde]

Originally Posted by JDeere

The butches who still feel female or what have ya are what i see around here as soft butches. I just cant see a hardcore butch saying they are female. Female bodies yes but female in the brain not so much.

That's a good way of putting it. I have no problem acknowledging my female body, but I do tend to think of myself as a "queer dude".

[girl_dee]

Originally Posted by JDeere

The butches who still feel female or what have ya are what i see around here as soft butches. I just cant see a hardcore butch saying they are female. Female bodies yes but female in the brain not so much.

i’m not a fan of the term *soft butch* or *hardcore butch*..... for this femme, butch is butch.

i can’t speak to what goes on in a butches brain, but i’d like to think they know they are *butch enough* if they claim butch.

[BullDog]

No, I am female and definitely do not consider myself a soft butch. I am hardcore - although I also agree with dee that soft and hard core are not great terms to use. This is pretty insulting.

Originally Posted by JDeere

The butches who still feel female or what have ya are what i see around here as soft butches. I just cant see a hardcore butch saying they are female. Female bodies yes but female in the brain not so much.

[Lyte]

Similar terms in my day but the two main ones were butch and soft butch. One would add the adjective soft if you wanted to identify as less masculine/male acting... feeling.. etc... etc... than just butch. Then we had dyke or bull dyke as popular terms used to describe lesbians even more masculine acting/appearance than butch.

Of course, how you saw yourself was not always the same as how others saw you!

Originally Posted by JDeere

The butches who still feel female or what have ya are what i see around here as soft butches. I just cant see a hardcore butch saying they are female. Female bodies yes but female in the brain not so much.

[Lyte]

Totally with you on this! I'm still trying to wrap my head around all the "options"... and the names... that have popped up in the last 20 years!

I certainly don't mind getting with the program ... so to speak... but what has really disturbed me is how peeved some get if one can't/don't ID them appropriately from first meeting! I've only had my head bitten off once but I've seen others decapitated many times. Sheesh!

Originally Posted by CherylNYC

The part that I haven't gotten used to is that many people look exactly like butch women to me, but they identify as trans or as queer, not as butch women. It surprises me every time. I'm not sure if I'll ever get my head around it.

[cathexis]

Originally Posted by Lyte

Similar terms in my day but the two main ones were butch and soft butch. One would add the adjective soft if you wanted to identify as less masculine/male acting... feeling.. etc... etc... than just butch. Then we had dyke or bull dyke as popular terms used to describe lesbians even more masculine acting/appearance than butch.

Of course, how you saw yourself was not always the same as how others saw you!

Individuals self identify in unique ways.
To one, soft butch may be used for those androgenos or non-binary.
Dyke can be used as a self identification for any lesbian.
In the MW, the term bull dyke is mostly used by straight men as
an insult to a masculine acting/appearing womon (not always lesbian).

[JDeere]

I didn't mean to offend. Im posting on what i see in my everyday world. Ive spoken with alot of butches at the bar and the ones who call themselves hardcore butch do not see themselves as female.

But i guess how one sees themselves wont always be seen by others.

[CherylNYC]

Originally Posted by Lyte

Totally with you on this! I'm still trying to wrap my head around all the "options"... and the names... that have popped up in the last 20 years!

I certainly don't mind getting with the program ... so to speak... but what has really disturbed me is how peeved some get if one can't/don't ID them appropriately from first meeting! I've only had my head bitten off once but I've seen others decapitated many times. Sheesh!

I've had exactly the same experience. People who look exactly like butch women to me will get angry if I don't know that they don't think of themselves that way. And they often say, 'Do I look like a woman to you?', as if their masculinity meant that they couldn't also be women. It seems as if they're insulted to be called women, and it's hard not to hear that as misogyny. My girlfriends are usually at least as masculine as those trans/queer/nonbinary/nongendered people are, and yet they've mostly identified very much as women. Butch women. (NOT 'soft butch', whatever that means) I feel so... OLD whenever that happens.

[BullDog]

Yeah, you go ahead and think of me as "soft" all you want JDeere, but what you said is complete bullshit. I know plenty of "hardcore" butches in real life - who like me - are very proud to be female and butch and completely masculine. It doesn't imply that we are less than hardcore.

If any female-identified butch were to suggest that a male id'd butch was "less than" it would certainly cause a stir.

Maybe instead of posting how you see other butches, you could just talk about how you id instead.

And as far as butch "brains," this sounds like the bullshit where supposedly boys think differently than girls and that's why girls aren't good at math (which is completely untrue).

Anyway, we don't need any "butch scale" at all.

Seriously, this is out of line and should not be tolerated.

Originally Posted by JDeere

I didn't mean to offend. Im posting on what i see in my everyday world. Ive spoken with alot of butches at the bar and the ones who call themselves hardcore butch do not see themselves as female.

But i guess how one sees themselves wont always be seen by others.

[JDeere]

Originally Posted by BullDog

Yeah, you go ahead and think of me as "soft" all you want JDeere, but what you said is complete bullshit. I know plenty of "hardcore" butches in real life - who like me - are very proud to be female and butch and completely masculine. It doesn't imply that we are less than hardcore.

If any female-identified butch were to suggest that a male id'd butch was "less than" it would certainly cause a stir.

Maybe instead of posting how you see other butches, you could just talk about how you id instead.

And as far as butch "brains," this sounds like the bullshit where supposedly boys think differently than girls and that's why girls aren't good at math (which is completely untrue).

Anyway, we don't need any "butch scale" at all.

Seriously, this is out of line and should not be tolerated.

Think what you want. Im telling my.side of life not yours. I put what i see out there and you get all out of sorts. Which is on you not me.

[BullDog]

No, you weren't talking about yourself.

And I will keep my thoughts about you and what kind of butch you think you are to myself.

Originally Posted by JDeere

Think what you want. Im telling my.side of life not yours. I put what i see out there and you get all out of sorts. Which is on you not me.

[JDeere]

Originally Posted by BullDog

No, you weren't talking about yourself.

And I will keep my thoughts about you and what kind of butch you think you are to myself.

Same with myself