Trans or Butch

JDeere · 04-08-2018, 01:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BullDog

Yeah, you go ahead and think of me as "soft" all you want JDeere, but what you said is complete bullshit. I know plenty of "hardcore" butches in real life - who like me - are very proud to be female and butch and completely masculine. It doesn't imply that we are less than hardcore.

If any female-identified butch were to suggest that a male id'd butch was "less than" it would certainly cause a stir.

Maybe instead of posting how you see other butches, you could just talk about how you id instead.

And as far as butch "brains," this sounds like the bullshit where supposedly boys think differently than girls and that's why girls aren't good at math (which is completely untrue).

Anyway, we don't need any "butch scale" at all.

Seriously, this is out of line and should not be tolerated.

Think what you want. Im telling my.side of life not yours. I put what i see out there and you get all out of sorts. Which is on you not me.

BullDog · 04-08-2018, 01:44 AM

No, you weren't talking about yourself.

And I will keep my thoughts about you and what kind of butch you think you are to myself.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDeere

Think what you want. Im telling my.side of life not yours. I put what i see out there and you get all out of sorts. Which is on you not me.

JDeere · 04-08-2018, 01:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BullDog

No, you weren't talking about yourself.

And I will keep my thoughts about you and what kind of butch you think you are to myself.

Same with myself

BullDog · 04-08-2018, 01:47 AM

Good because the purpose of the thread isn't to judge others.

Opening post - bold is my emphasis:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ender

I've been in this weird state in between trans male and butch female and was wondering if I could get some insight from those who are butch females.

I've been actively questioning for about 5-6 years now, and I've been always going back and forth between the two. The part of me that thinks I'm a trans male is that I express myself in a more masculine manner (however, butch women also do), I pack and bind, and would prefer to compress my chest and would like the option to go shirtless (though, who doesn't). I like male and neutral pronouns, and I am seen by the majority of people as male.

I'm not out to anyone, so I can't really ask someone to call me by my preferred name/pronouns, but I have been trying this online. I've always chose to present myself as male or masculine online (in games, forums, etc) and I was just wondering if this was common amongst other butch women.

There have also been times as a child where I've had thoughts about how I would go about telling people what happened to [given name] if I were to present as male and go by a male name. I also wondered, when I was 9-10, if other girls hated being girls also.

I don't know, I'm just really confused.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDeere

Same with myself

JDeere · 04-08-2018, 01:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BullDog

Good because the purpose of the thread isn't to judge others.

Yup i know.

BullDog · 04-08-2018, 01:58 AM

To answer your original question Ender, many do id as male/masculine online but definitely not all. In my experience, it is much more common online than in real life, where most of my butch friends do go by she and are totally butch. Some go by he and it could also depend on age and the community you live in.

I consider myself totally masculine and butch. I am proud to be a queer/lesbian masculine female - and that is what butch is for me personally.

Anyway, you've already gotten a lot of good advice, but there are still plenty of butches who have no desire to transition and view themselves as female and don't see the need to use male pronouns. It's all a matter of what feels best for you, and there's no rush and sometimes people evolve over time.

Butches and trans-id'd people identify in all different kinds of ways and no one way is better or less than or "more butch" than any other.

Esme nha Maire · 04-08-2018, 03:10 AM

Might I interject that the terms that people use of themselves and of each other are neither universal, nor are the meanings attached thereto. Put another way, some people will have in their heads hard and fast definitions for each of the terms that we use within our community - but two such people may not agree on where the boundaries between one and another lay. And I'm told that there are marked differences between how women in the USA and UK regard and use the terms often used within our community here.

We all seek to find where we fit in in the world. Where is the place for me? When one doesn't easily conform to the norms of wider society it can be bad enough, but when one finds oneself adrift even within a smaller sub-section of society that notionally one should fit within somewhere, it can be quite upsetting, as I know from personal experience.

THE big thing to take in, in my opinion, is that your personal experiences and feelings are valid. They are a valid way to be, and what anyone else thinks or whether they think the same way in the same terms with the same definitions as you or not does not matter. Fretting and arguing over such can cause unnecessary friction and pain. It's trite but true that "you be YOU" is probably the best advice there is.

You don't have to be trans OR butch. Those are just labels for aspects of being. You can be one, both, neither, you can think of yourself as one, both, neither and none of that matters so long as you are being YOU just as hard as you can. I've used this phrase before because it's true - words - labels - are descriptive (they describe us), not proscriptive (they do not determine who and what we are).

I caused myself a lot of needless grief over the years because I was trying to pigeonhole myself into a few very limited and limiting boxes defined by a very few words because they were the only words I knew: male/female, straight/gay - and my knowledge of how things are and can be was so very limited. The more I came to understand, and the more I came to regard labels as places on a map that I might be nearby, but perhaps not exactly at, rather than those damned constraining pigeonholes, the happier I became.

I hope this helps.

04-08-2018, 01:58 AM	#6
BullDog Infamous Member How Do You Identify?: Dominant Stone Butch Daddy Preferred Pronoun?: She Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: In A Healing Place Posts: 5,371 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 18,160 Thanked 22,666 Times in 4,464 Posts Rep Power: 21474856	To answer your original question Ender, many do id as male/masculine online but definitely not all. In my experience, it is much more common online than in real life, where most of my butch friends do go by she and are totally butch. Some go by he and it could also depend on age and the community you live in. I consider myself totally masculine and butch. I am proud to be a queer/lesbian masculine female - and that is what butch is for me personally. Anyway, you've already gotten a lot of good advice, but there are still plenty of butches who have no desire to transition and view themselves as female and don't see the need to use male pronouns. It's all a matter of what feels best for you, and there's no rush and sometimes people evolve over time. Butches and trans-id'd people identify in all different kinds of ways and no one way is better or less than or "more butch" than any other. __________________ Love consists in this, that two solitudes protect and touch and greet each other. - Rainer Maria Rilke

04-08-2018, 03:10 AM	#7
Esme nha Maire Member How Do You Identify?: Tomboyish eccentric antique femme Preferred Pronoun?: She/her Relationship Status: single Join Date: Jul 2017 Location: UK Posts: 642 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 2,196 Thanked 2,078 Times in 541 Posts Rep Power: 19310770	Might I interject that the terms that people use of themselves and of each other are neither universal, nor are the meanings attached thereto. Put another way, some people will have in their heads hard and fast definitions for each of the terms that we use within our community - but two such people may not agree on where the boundaries between one and another lay. And I'm told that there are marked differences between how women in the USA and UK regard and use the terms often used within our community here. We all seek to find where we fit in in the world. Where is the place for me? When one doesn't easily conform to the norms of wider society it can be bad enough, but when one finds oneself adrift even within a smaller sub-section of society that notionally one should fit within somewhere, it can be quite upsetting, as I know from personal experience. THE big thing to take in, in my opinion, is that your personal experiences and feelings are valid. They are a valid way to be, and what anyone else thinks or whether they think the same way in the same terms with the same definitions as you or not does not matter. Fretting and arguing over such can cause unnecessary friction and pain. It's trite but true that "you be YOU" is probably the best advice there is. You don't have to be trans OR butch. Those are just labels for aspects of being. You can be one, both, neither, you can think of yourself as one, both, neither and none of that matters so long as you are being YOU just as hard as you can. I've used this phrase before because it's true - words - labels - are descriptive (they describe us), not proscriptive (they do not determine who and what we are). I caused myself a lot of needless grief over the years because I was trying to pigeonhole myself into a few very limited and limiting boxes defined by a very few words because they were the only words I knew: male/female, straight/gay - and my knowledge of how things are and can be was so very limited. The more I came to understand, and the more I came to regard labels as places on a map that I might be nearby, but perhaps not exactly at, rather than those damned constraining pigeonholes, the happier I became. I hope this helps.