Trans or Butch

[BullDog]

Good because the purpose of the thread isn't to judge others.

Opening post - bold is my emphasis:

Originally Posted by Ender

I've been in this weird state in between trans male and butch female and was wondering if I could get some insight from those who are butch females.

I've been actively questioning for about 5-6 years now, and I've been always going back and forth between the two. The part of me that thinks I'm a trans male is that I express myself in a more masculine manner (however, butch women also do), I pack and bind, and would prefer to compress my chest and would like the option to go shirtless (though, who doesn't). I like male and neutral pronouns, and I am seen by the majority of people as male.

I'm not out to anyone, so I can't really ask someone to call me by my preferred name/pronouns, but I have been trying this online. I've always chose to present myself as male or masculine online (in games, forums, etc) and I was just wondering if this was common amongst other butch women.

There have also been times as a child where I've had thoughts about how I would go about telling people what happened to [given name] if I were to present as male and go by a male name. I also wondered, when I was 9-10, if other girls hated being girls also.

I don't know, I'm just really confused.

Originally Posted by JDeere

Same with myself

[JDeere]

Originally Posted by BullDog

Good because the purpose of the thread isn't to judge others.

Yup i know.

[BullDog]

To answer your original question Ender, many do id as male/masculine online but definitely not all. In my experience, it is much more common online than in real life, where most of my butch friends do go by she and are totally butch. Some go by he and it could also depend on age and the community you live in.

I consider myself totally masculine and butch. I am proud to be a queer/lesbian masculine female - and that is what butch is for me personally.

Anyway, you've already gotten a lot of good advice, but there are still plenty of butches who have no desire to transition and view themselves as female and don't see the need to use male pronouns. It's all a matter of what feels best for you, and there's no rush and sometimes people evolve over time.

Butches and trans-id'd people identify in all different kinds of ways and no one way is better or less than or "more butch" than any other.

[Esme nha Maire]

Might I interject that the terms that people use of themselves and of each other are neither universal, nor are the meanings attached thereto. Put another way, some people will have in their heads hard and fast definitions for each of the terms that we use within our community - but two such people may not agree on where the boundaries between one and another lay. And I'm told that there are marked differences between how women in the USA and UK regard and use the terms often used within our community here.

We all seek to find where we fit in in the world. Where is the place for me? When one doesn't easily conform to the norms of wider society it can be bad enough, but when one finds oneself adrift even within a smaller sub-section of society that notionally one should fit within somewhere, it can be quite upsetting, as I know from personal experience.

THE big thing to take in, in my opinion, is that your personal experiences and feelings are valid. They are a valid way to be, and what anyone else thinks or whether they think the same way in the same terms with the same definitions as you or not does not matter. Fretting and arguing over such can cause unnecessary friction and pain. It's trite but true that "you be YOU" is probably the best advice there is.

You don't have to be trans OR butch. Those are just labels for aspects of being. You can be one, both, neither, you can think of yourself as one, both, neither and none of that matters so long as you are being YOU just as hard as you can. I've used this phrase before because it's true - words - labels - are descriptive (they describe us), not proscriptive (they do not determine who and what we are).

I caused myself a lot of needless grief over the years because I was trying to pigeonhole myself into a few very limited and limiting boxes defined by a very few words because they were the only words I knew: male/female, straight/gay - and my knowledge of how things are and can be was so very limited. The more I came to understand, and the more I came to regard labels as places on a map that I might be nearby, but perhaps not exactly at, rather than those damned constraining pigeonholes, the happier I became.

I hope this helps.

[Lyte]

This is the wisest statement on this thread!

Terms ... titles... definitions are going to change over time, across geography and as we and our community changes. It makes little sense to get twisted when someone recounts their own (very personal) experiences.

Even so... that's not what this thread is about... even though it might be tangential to it!

Originally Posted by Esme nha Maire

Might I interject that the terms that people use of themselves and of each other are neither universal, nor are the meanings attached thereto.

[BullDog]

Rolls eyes. If anyone were to suggest that male id butches were soft and not hardcore butch there would be a huge uproar. But of course this was exactly what I was expecting to see when I woke up.

[BullDog]

I seriously hope that people don't solely rely on what they read online to figure out who they are. If I had done that I wouldn't be anything like who I actually am.

My own personal experiences and the experiences I have with butches out in the real world are often quite different than what I read online. I have met a lot of nice people online, some who have gone onto to be real-life partners and friends but there's a lot of posturing as well.

Who you are out in the real world and what you feel fits who you are in your skin is what counts, not online personas.

And never listen to anyone who has to put down others to feel good about themselves.