2020 Presidential Election

[WheatToast]

Originally Posted by kittygrrl

<<<enjoyed your post

i think GOP pollution(ie hatred, intolerance, evil) has crept into our consciousness and some of us have decided that since it's working for them, we had better adopt the same malignant zombie rhetoric only with our talking points. I'd like to believe we're better then that, but now i'm worried we're not. If we use their propaganda we can't claim higher ground. We're kidding ourselves, we are in the same cesspool and no better and maybe far worse because we know better but lower ourselves to wallow on their level.

At this point, i'm not in love with any of the tentative candidates that are out there. Meh....none are impressive. And any candidate that wants to play footsie with Russians is definitely out. You can't make a pet out of a rattlesnake.

People have opinions they deserve to express--but when the premise is based on horseshit that is wholly inaccurate, shall we refrain from correcting the record lest we hurt someone's little feelers? We are entitled to our own opinions, but not our own facts.
Politics is a rough business and a rough topic.
Mollycoddling is for kids and old people.

[kittygrrl]

Originally Posted by WheatToast

People have opinions they deserve to express--but when the premise is based on horseshit that is wholly inaccurate, shall we refrain from correcting the record lest we hurt someone's little feelers? We are entitled to our own opinions, but not our own facts.
Politics is a rough business and a rough topic.
Mollycoddling is for kids and old people.

agreed we're not entitled to our own facts..nevertheless the infection is invading the democratic base..it's like the plague, it doesn't discriminate

[C0LLETTE]

Originally Posted by WheatToast

People have opinions they deserve to express--but when the premise is based on horseshit that is wholly inaccurate, shall we refrain from correcting the record lest we hurt someone's little feelers? We are entitled to our own opinions, but not our own facts.
Politics is a rough business and a rough topic.
Mollycoddling is for kids and old people.

What patronising muddled poppycock!

Am I to understand from this that you are tough and can handle the rough business/topic of politics while I, an old woman, am to be sidelined, mollycoddled and lumped in with kids? My "little feelers" are definitely hurt.

[charley]

In rereading some of the above posts, I confess that I was so busy prior to retiring that I really hadn't been following in detail what was happening re: American politics; and, so when Trump won the election a few years ago, I was somewhat surprised, to say the least. However, life is a learning process, and since that surprise and rereading posts here, and being online and chatting (elsewhere), and even though participating here in this thread and others, I was not expecting to learn anything of import, but I have to say thanks everyone for your input. It wasn't what I had expected, but learning is always discovery. And, I now think I understand why Trump won his election.

[Martina]

https://jacobinmag.com/2019/01/eliza...m-progressives

I certainly prefer Bernie to Warren. These differences are very real, but what a relief it would be to have Warren over other more conservative Dems if Bernie doesn't run or does not fare well in the primaries.

[dark_crystal]

Harris announced today! I think she would be a good nominee. I was watching some videos of her and she’s very sharp

[MsTinkerbelly]

Originally Posted by dark_crystal

Harris announced today! I think she would be a good nominee. I was watching some videos of her and she’s very sharp

I’m a big fan of Kamala Harris, both for her work as the AG of California, and as a Senator from California.

Things are getting exciting!

[homoe]

Originally Posted by dark_crystal

Harris announced today! I think she would be a good nominee. I was watching some videos of her and she’s very sharp

I loved watching her grill some of those bastards who appeared before her and the committee on the hill especially Kavanaugh! She not only tough, she's also nobody's fool as well!

[dark_crystal]

Here is where Harris is going to have problems (i don't endorse this magazine, but wanted to show what will come out):

Kamala Harris’ New Book Tries to Massage Her Record as a Prosecutor, But the Facts Aren’t Pretty

As California Attorney General, Harris' office continued to display indifference toward concerns of misconduct. In March 2015, the California A.G. appealed the dismissal of a child molestation case after a Kern County prosecutor falsified an interview transcript to add an incriminating confession.

Harris' office, citing state court precedent, tried to argue that the prosecutor's action "was certainly conscience shocking in the sense that it involved false testimony by a prosecutor in a formal criminal proceeding. But it did not involve 'brutal and … offensive' conduct employed to obtain a conviction." In other words, the defendant's false confession wasn't beaten out of him, and therefore didn't violate his constitutional rights. The appeals court disagreed and threw out the conviction.

In another 2015 case, Baca v. Adams, Harris' office opposed a post-conviction appeal by a defendant who was sentenced after the prosecutor in his case lied to the jury about whether an informant received compensation for his testimony. A state court found the prosecutor's testimony was "sheer fantasy," but declined to overturn the conviction.

As attorney general of California, Harris challenged the release of a man who had been exonerated by the Innocence Project and had his conviction overturned. Harris argued that Daniel Larsen, who spent 13 years in prison for the crime of possessing a concealed knife, had not produced evidence of his innocence fast enough. A federal judge overturned his conviction after finding that Larsen had shown he was innocent, that the cops testifying at his trial weren't credible, and that his attorney, since disbarred, was constitutionally ineffective because he had failed to call any witnesses.

When the Supreme Court decided that California's overcrowded prisons represented cruel and unusual punishment, Attorney General Harris fought a ruling ordering California to release some of its prisoners. Harris claims she had to fight the ruling for Gov. Jerry Brown. "I have a client, and I don't get to choose my client," she said. But the attorney general in California is an independent, elected position, not an appointee serving at the governor's pleasure.

In October of 2016, just before she faced voters in her Senate bid, Harris spearheaded the arrest of current and former Backpage executives on charges of pimping and conspiracy, under the (ultimately unsuccessful) theory that providing an open online platform for user-generated content made them responsible for any illegal activity committed by users who connected through the site. Federal law explicitly says otherwise—something Harris certainly knew, as she had petitioned Congress a few years earlier to change the law so that she and other prosecutors could target Backpage (and its deep assets) through state criminal justice systems. What's more, myriad federal courts have affirmed that prosecutions like the one Harris attempted are illegal.

A Sacramento County Superior Court rejected Harris' case against Backpage, ruling that "Congress did not wish to hold liable online publishers for the action of publishing third party speech and it is for Congress, not this court, to revisit." Undeterred, Harris—as one of her final acts as California's top prosecutor—filed nearly identical charges against Backpage in another California court, a move the First Amendment Lawyers' Association called "a gross abuse of prosecutorial discretion" and part of Harris' pattern of disrespecting due process and constitutional rights.

Meanwhile, an actual underage sex-trafficking scandal implicated dozens of police officers and other local authorities throughout the San Francisco Bay Area. Oakland went through two police chiefs trying to address it, with a third doing only questionably better. People were pleading for the state to step in and oversee an independent investigation, since local governments seemed more motivated to quash a PR nightmare than punish public officials. Harris and her office refused to intervene.

[homoe]

Originally Posted by homoe

I loved watching her grill some of those bastards who appeared before her and the committee on the hill especially Kavanaugh! She not only tough, she's also nobody's fool as well!

Trump has met his match!

[WheatToast]

Originally Posted by C0LLETTE

What patronising muddled poppycock!

Am I to understand from this that you are tough and can handle the rough business/topic of politics while I, an old woman, am to be sidelined, mollycoddled and lumped in with kids? My "little feelers" are definitely hurt.

Nobody said anything of the sort. My point was, talking politics often includes people making statements with a premise that is untrue. Gone unchecked, it's like the game of "gossip" where it starts with one statement, gets passed on and ends up being something entirely different.


If you keep up these personal barbs, I'll refuse to send you even one more pair of my used underwear.

[MsTinkerbelly]

I was listening to the Washington Post news brief today, where they mentioned Kamala Harris and what she says about 2 of her primary campaingn points...

1. Medicare for all

Doable, but a cost of $30 Trillion a year (that was the amount quoted)

2. $3 TRILLION tax cut for the middle class

Is it just me, or would she have to do some pretty fancy footwork to both SPEND $30 Trillion, and CUT $3 Trillion?

[Martina]

Originally Posted by MsTinkerbelly

I was listening to the Washington Post news brief today, where they mentioned Kamala Harris and what she says about 2 of her primary campaingn points...

1. Medicare for all

Doable, but a cost of $30 Trillion a year (that was the amount quoted)

2. $3 TRILLION tax cut for the middle class

Is it just me, or would she have to do some pretty fancy footwork to both SPEND $30 Trillion, and CUT $3 Trillion?

I keep hearing that single payer will save money, but I don't know how it works.

[MsTinkerbelly]

Originally Posted by Martina

I keep hearing that single payer will save money, but I don't know how it works.

Assume

I would assume it is very similar to the payment system for Medicare that Seniors are held hostage to without exception. By that I mean the $100 plus per month that comes out of my check that I never see. If I spend nothing else, I am eligible for a decent plan which is similar to an HMO...but my Kasey spends an ADDITIONAL $150 a month so that she can see anyone she wants, anywhere in the country.

I will again assume, that there would be reasonably priced healthcare for everyone else, with the federal government collecting all of our payments, and then paying the bills from the doctors and hospitals. In which case, in MY opinion, we are all screwed, because we have seen just how badly the government runs the VA.

Or, we could get lucky and they follow the current Canadian system.

[theoddz]

Originally Posted by MsTinkerbelly

Assume

I would assume it is very similar to the payment system for Medicare that Seniors are held hostage to without exception. By that I mean the $100 plus per month that comes out of my check that I never see. If I spend nothing else, I am eligible for a decent plan which is similar to an HMO...but my Kasey spends an ADDITIONAL $150 a month so that she can see anyone she wants, anywhere in the country.

I will again assume, that there would be reasonably priced healthcare for everyone else, with the federal government collecting all of our payments, and then paying the bills from the doctors and hospitals. In which case, in MY opinion, we are all screwed, because we have seen just how badly the government runs the VA.

Or, we could get lucky and they follow the current Canadian system.

Well, I have to rush in here and defend a little bit of the "concept" of the VA health care system that has demonstrated, over the years, some features of how a single payer system might work more efficiently and economically than some other models. I have to point out here that the VA, as a national healthcare system for Veterans, has consistently, over the years, been ranked at the top levels of Patient Satisfaction above any other healthcare system. Make no mistake, however, that it is not a perfect system, by any means, but overall, most Veterans have been very satisfied with the care they receive in the VA system.

The VA, as a system, has implemented some very efficient and cost conscious measures that have really been able to deliver good care, overall. One of the best ones is the nationwide VA CPRS (Computerized Patient Records System) system. By linking the VA healthcare system together, nationally, with this computerized records system, Veterans are able to access their health care through any VA facility, nationally, no matter where they go. Because their records are accessible, procedures (x-rays, tests, labs, etc.) don't need to be repeated by practitioners outside of the Veteran's "home" area, should they relocate or travel to other areas in the nation. You'd be surprised at how very expensive it is to repeat tests, procedures, consults to specialists, etc., it can be for large groups of system beneficiaries, when they don't have access to data that has already been gathered and documented. When providers can communicate with each other over securely transmitted/encrypted data lines, care is greatly improved and consistent!! When I worked for the VA Health Care System, I accessed remote data constantly in the performance of my job. I was able to bring up records, diagnostics, sleep studies and treatment plans for Veterans who originated from cities and towns clear across the nation from where I was in Las Vegas. This improved care and consistency and saved money for the system.

Another huge cost saving measure that the VA and military medical systems both use is the process of negotiation for large quantities of pharmaceuticals. I believe that Big Pharma could be reigned in by limiting what they can charge for medicines. What Big Pharma does to the American consumer/patient is nothing short of criminal!!

Like I said, the VA system is not perfect, but it has some elements in it that could, reasonably, be implemented into a national health care system that would really "pop"!!! I still maintain that, in order to truly deliver top notch patient care, in any system, we desperately need to get the profit incentive out of medicine and health care. It's unethical and just shameful that gross, obscene profits are and have been made on the backs of a sick humanity.

One last thing I'd like to put out here for contemplation is something that I heard a while ago, while discussing some of the economic issues of the healthcare system. It has to do with the inverse relationship of access vs. quality. In other words, when the system improves access to more population, quality goes down. In order for quality to improve, however, access must be restricted. Hmm....I've been rolling that concept around in my mind for several years now, and I've realized some truth to it. I'd like to put that thought out there for others to roll around in your minds, also.

Sorry to derail here, but I did have to step in and say that I believe that there are many elements of the VA system that could be implemented into a single payer system that could treat the American population, as a whole.

Back to your regularly scheduled program!!

~Theo~

[nycfem]

WheatToast, your post was reported... for good reason.

Originally Posted by WheatToast

...I'll refuse to send you even one more pair of my used underwear.

MODERATION

Whoa... this don't fly here. You took things to a whole 'nother level. We will write it off to poor judgment this time but your "get out of jail free" pass has now officially been used. Next time you will be timed out. If you wish to discuss in more detail why this is not ok, PM me and I will explain.

[Martina]

Julian Castro now --

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...o-texas-speech

[dark_crystal]

Originally Posted by Martina

Julian Castro now --

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...o-texas-speech

There was a big turnout with a lot of energy at the announcement event. The article shows him on record with support for Medicare for all and raising taxes on the wealthy. Do not know about free college or student debt relief. Strong on social justice and compassionate borders.

We could do worse. Could he win?

[Martina]

I don't know. Turn out and energy are what it takes.

I noticed The Real Bernie Sanders FB group renamed itself Real Bernie Sanders / Tulsi Gabbard Activists.

[dark_crystal]

Twitter is already coming for Castro on DASP (Distressed Asset Stabilization Program)