2020 Presidential Election

[WheatToast]

Originally Posted by C0LLETTE

What patronising muddled poppycock!

Am I to understand from this that you are tough and can handle the rough business/topic of politics while I, an old woman, am to be sidelined, mollycoddled and lumped in with kids? My "little feelers" are definitely hurt.

Nobody said anything of the sort. My point was, talking politics often includes people making statements with a premise that is untrue. Gone unchecked, it's like the game of "gossip" where it starts with one statement, gets passed on and ends up being something entirely different.


If you keep up these personal barbs, I'll refuse to send you even one more pair of my used underwear.

[MsTinkerbelly]

I was listening to the Washington Post news brief today, where they mentioned Kamala Harris and what she says about 2 of her primary campaingn points...

1. Medicare for all

Doable, but a cost of $30 Trillion a year (that was the amount quoted)

2. $3 TRILLION tax cut for the middle class

Is it just me, or would she have to do some pretty fancy footwork to both SPEND $30 Trillion, and CUT $3 Trillion?

[Martina]

Originally Posted by MsTinkerbelly

I was listening to the Washington Post news brief today, where they mentioned Kamala Harris and what she says about 2 of her primary campaingn points...

1. Medicare for all

Doable, but a cost of $30 Trillion a year (that was the amount quoted)

2. $3 TRILLION tax cut for the middle class

Is it just me, or would she have to do some pretty fancy footwork to both SPEND $30 Trillion, and CUT $3 Trillion?

I keep hearing that single payer will save money, but I don't know how it works.

[MsTinkerbelly]

Originally Posted by Martina

I keep hearing that single payer will save money, but I don't know how it works.

Assume

I would assume it is very similar to the payment system for Medicare that Seniors are held hostage to without exception. By that I mean the $100 plus per month that comes out of my check that I never see. If I spend nothing else, I am eligible for a decent plan which is similar to an HMO...but my Kasey spends an ADDITIONAL $150 a month so that she can see anyone she wants, anywhere in the country.

I will again assume, that there would be reasonably priced healthcare for everyone else, with the federal government collecting all of our payments, and then paying the bills from the doctors and hospitals. In which case, in MY opinion, we are all screwed, because we have seen just how badly the government runs the VA.

Or, we could get lucky and they follow the current Canadian system.

[theoddz]

Originally Posted by MsTinkerbelly

Assume

I would assume it is very similar to the payment system for Medicare that Seniors are held hostage to without exception. By that I mean the $100 plus per month that comes out of my check that I never see. If I spend nothing else, I am eligible for a decent plan which is similar to an HMO...but my Kasey spends an ADDITIONAL $150 a month so that she can see anyone she wants, anywhere in the country.

I will again assume, that there would be reasonably priced healthcare for everyone else, with the federal government collecting all of our payments, and then paying the bills from the doctors and hospitals. In which case, in MY opinion, we are all screwed, because we have seen just how badly the government runs the VA.

Or, we could get lucky and they follow the current Canadian system.

Well, I have to rush in here and defend a little bit of the "concept" of the VA health care system that has demonstrated, over the years, some features of how a single payer system might work more efficiently and economically than some other models. I have to point out here that the VA, as a national healthcare system for Veterans, has consistently, over the years, been ranked at the top levels of Patient Satisfaction above any other healthcare system. Make no mistake, however, that it is not a perfect system, by any means, but overall, most Veterans have been very satisfied with the care they receive in the VA system.

The VA, as a system, has implemented some very efficient and cost conscious measures that have really been able to deliver good care, overall. One of the best ones is the nationwide VA CPRS (Computerized Patient Records System) system. By linking the VA healthcare system together, nationally, with this computerized records system, Veterans are able to access their health care through any VA facility, nationally, no matter where they go. Because their records are accessible, procedures (x-rays, tests, labs, etc.) don't need to be repeated by practitioners outside of the Veteran's "home" area, should they relocate or travel to other areas in the nation. You'd be surprised at how very expensive it is to repeat tests, procedures, consults to specialists, etc., it can be for large groups of system beneficiaries, when they don't have access to data that has already been gathered and documented. When providers can communicate with each other over securely transmitted/encrypted data lines, care is greatly improved and consistent!! When I worked for the VA Health Care System, I accessed remote data constantly in the performance of my job. I was able to bring up records, diagnostics, sleep studies and treatment plans for Veterans who originated from cities and towns clear across the nation from where I was in Las Vegas. This improved care and consistency and saved money for the system.

Another huge cost saving measure that the VA and military medical systems both use is the process of negotiation for large quantities of pharmaceuticals. I believe that Big Pharma could be reigned in by limiting what they can charge for medicines. What Big Pharma does to the American consumer/patient is nothing short of criminal!!

Like I said, the VA system is not perfect, but it has some elements in it that could, reasonably, be implemented into a national health care system that would really "pop"!!! I still maintain that, in order to truly deliver top notch patient care, in any system, we desperately need to get the profit incentive out of medicine and health care. It's unethical and just shameful that gross, obscene profits are and have been made on the backs of a sick humanity.

One last thing I'd like to put out here for contemplation is something that I heard a while ago, while discussing some of the economic issues of the healthcare system. It has to do with the inverse relationship of access vs. quality. In other words, when the system improves access to more population, quality goes down. In order for quality to improve, however, access must be restricted. Hmm....I've been rolling that concept around in my mind for several years now, and I've realized some truth to it. I'd like to put that thought out there for others to roll around in your minds, also.

Sorry to derail here, but I did have to step in and say that I believe that there are many elements of the VA system that could be implemented into a single payer system that could treat the American population, as a whole.

Back to your regularly scheduled program!!

~Theo~

[MsTinkerbelly]

Originally Posted by theoddz

Well, I have to rush in here and defend a little bit of the "concept" of the VA health care system that has demonstrated, over the years, some features of how a single payer system might work more efficiently and economically than some other models. I have to point out here that the VA, as a national healthcare system for Veterans, has consistently, over the years, been ranked at the top levels of Patient Satisfaction above any other healthcare system. Make no mistake, however, that it is not a perfect system, by any means, but overall, most Veterans have been very satisfied with the care they receive in the VA system.

The VA, as a system, has implemented some very efficient and cost conscious measures that have really been able to deliver good care, overall. One of the best ones is the nationwide VA CPRS (Computerized Patient Records System) system. By linking the VA healthcare system together, nationally, with this computerized records system, Veterans are able to access their health care through any VA facility, nationally, no matter where they go. Because their records are accessible, procedures (x-rays, tests, labs, etc.) don't need to be repeated by practitioners outside of the Veteran's "home" area, should they relocate or travel to other areas in the nation. You'd be surprised at how very expensive it is to repeat tests, procedures, consults to specialists, etc., it can be for large groups of system beneficiaries, when they don't have access to data that has already been gathered and documented. When providers can communicate with each other over securely transmitted/encrypted data lines, care is greatly improved and consistent!! When I worked for the VA Health Care System, I accessed remote data constantly in the performance of my job. I was able to bring up records, diagnostics, sleep studies and treatment plans for Veterans who originated from cities and towns clear across the nation from where I was in Las Vegas. This improved care and consistency and saved money for the system.

Another huge cost saving measure that the VA and military medical systems both use is the process of negotiation for large quantities of pharmaceuticals. I believe that Big Pharma could be reigned in by limiting what they can charge for medicines. What Big Pharma does to the American consumer/patient is nothing short of criminal!!

Like I said, the VA system is not perfect, but it has some elements in it that could, reasonably, be implemented into a national health care system that would really "pop"!!! I still maintain that, in order to truly deliver top notch patient care, in any system, we desperately need to get the profit incentive out of medicine and health care. It's unethical and just shameful that gross, obscene profits are and have been made on the backs of a sick humanity.

One last thing I'd like to put out here for contemplation is something that I heard a while ago, while discussing some of the economic issues of the healthcare system. It has to do with the inverse relationship of access vs. quality. In other words, when the system improves access to more population, quality goes down. In order for quality to improve, however, access must be restricted. Hmm....I've been rolling that concept around in my mind for several years now, and I've realized some truth to it. I'd like to put that thought out there for others to roll around in your minds, also.

Sorry to derail here, but I did have to step in and say that I believe that there are many elements of the VA system that could be implemented into a single payer system that could treat the American population, as a whole.

Back to your regularly scheduled program!!

~Theo~

You bring up a lot of very valid points, thank you!

[dark_crystal]

Originally Posted by theoddz

in order to truly deliver top notch patient care, in any system, we desperately need to get the profit incentive out of medicine and health care. It's unethical and just shameful that gross, obscene profits are and have been made on the backs of a sick humanity.

~Theo~

I read a comment that says the fact that the US has for-profit justice, health care, education, and religion is truly screwed up and unlike any other developed country.

Socialism or no socialism, it should not take a genius to understand that the essentials of human life should be exempt from capitalism.

[nycfem]

WheatToast, your post was reported... for good reason.

Originally Posted by WheatToast

...I'll refuse to send you even one more pair of my used underwear.

MODERATION

Whoa... this don't fly here. You took things to a whole 'nother level. We will write it off to poor judgment this time but your "get out of jail free" pass has now officially been used. Next time you will be timed out. If you wish to discuss in more detail why this is not ok, PM me and I will explain.