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06-12-2010, 12:23 AM
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#1 |
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OFFS..
Lets just start a thread called "out of context fuck ups" or "let's kick Dylan's ass" Seriously, We'll save space and could maybe post pics too! |
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06-12-2010, 01:17 AM
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#2 |
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I've only ever heard the word used by lesbians against/towards heterosexuals. They meant it harshly.
It is a degrading word that lowers people to animals (dehumanizing) and I choose not to use it towards any person (unless they are breeding livestock or other animals ie. a dog breeder). As far as gay folk using it against other gay folk - wow!!!! That's just sad. ~~~shark~~~~~~~~
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06-12-2010, 06:14 AM
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#3 |
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This thread is about the word "breeder" and other words used to hurt other members of the LGBTQ community. At least, that's what I get from the thread title and every post made by the OP.
I think one thing to keep in mind is that even when LGBTQ people use this term to refer to straight people, even when the target is straight people, it does feel erasing and dehumanizing to LGBTQ folks who have kids or who have been in relationships where kids could have resulted. The fact that this group of LGBTQ people aren't even considered when directing this term at straight people is not simple innocence or thoughtlessness - it's disregard. Especially once an LGBTQ person has stated that the word itself is hurtful and upsetting. We haven't gotten into other words seen as hurtful to members of this community, but the ones discussed most often in this community are incorrectly applied pronouns. Other words that I see as similary hurtful: "real" and "true" - as in "real lesbian" or "real femme" or "true butch" or "real woman" or "real man". Also the terms "more/most" and "less/least" in conjunction with butch, femme, masculine, feminine when used to describe others - that can be very hurtful language and not just for the intended recipient. I've also seen people get very upset about being called a victim. Though this isn't a specific word, I also find it alarming when LGBTQ people advocate outlawing divorce (stating that "divorce is the real threat to marriage", not gays). I've heard this more at protests against prop 8, but it's another way to erase and divide members of the community who may have gotten divorced. Beyond that, the sheer obliviousness to the ramifications of outlawing divorce stresses me out, even if the people who say this type of thing are trying to make a totally different point. I also think it's alarming/upsetting when white members of the LGBTQ community show up at protests with signs that say things like "Gay is the new Black" or state in other ways that the struggle for LGBTQ rights is above the struggle for racial justice/equality or that the struggle for racial justice/equality has already been won.
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06-12-2010, 07:22 AM
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#4 |
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It's patriarchy!
It looked to me like Dylan was talking about the patriarchal context of a term like breeder, as it relates to conditioning in a sexist culture. And I, *hold the phone*, totally agree with him. It's why the term is so offensive.
I am constantly confused about the way things get personalized around here. Dylan wasn't talking about a particular, individual mother or father or person. He certainly wasn't talking about misandry (huh?). He was talking about patriarchy. About an environment in which all of us, (male & female) learn that a woman's value is connected to whether or not she bears children in the service of the patriarchy. That construct exists. Do many of us defy it? Of course! That doesn't erase it however. I have heard the term breeder used in two distinct ways -- as a slur by queers against straight people, and by childless people against people with children. While these slurs may not overtly differentiate between men and women (men also "breed" children), I agree with SF that these slurs reduce things down to women's reproductive organs. It's objectifying, offensive, and derogatory. And its patriarchy that sets up the context in which that is so. Heart |
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06-12-2010, 07:41 AM
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#5 |
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This thread is about the word "breeder" and other words used to hurt other members of the LGBTQ community. At least, that's what I get from the thread title and every post made by the OP.
I too thought that is what this thread was about, NOT how Dylan chose to explain patriarchy. *slaps* forehead Silly me thinking it was ok to ask this be taken into account. By all means continue to use the word. silly me..
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06-12-2010, 07:51 AM
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#6 |
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Snowy - I don't get it -- we are talking about the word breeder and how it hurts us. Are you saying we shouldn't mention the context of the word, we shouldn't mention patriarchy? I don't know what your issue is with Dylan per se, but like I said talking about the patriarchal context of a word like breeder is not personal. I for one, can't talk about the word and leave out the context.
And by the way, the word has been used several times in very direct ways to hurt me. I am, after all a mother and a woman and a queer. Heart |
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06-12-2010, 08:02 AM
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#7 | |
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Quote:
ONCE AGAIN... IT IS NOT ABOUT DYLAN....... Talk about patriarchy till you are blue in the face, can it be done without the word breeder though??? I believe that this is what this thread is ABOUT.. How hurtful the word breeder is....... Not Dylan.... I have no issues with Dylan.... One could say I would even buy him a cuppa coffee, not from Starbucks though he doesn't like em.
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06-12-2010, 07:10 AM
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#8 | |
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Quote:
Yanno this isn't the Dylan show.. It's about a WORD that is hurtful and a very civil conversation is being had. Have we asked Dylan not to use it, sure. Will he stop? Not really sure... I don't feel I am taking anything out of context, it is something that is oogy to some of us, and being there have been THREADS all over lately about hurtful terms we figured we should and could be heard. Just sayin'
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"If you’re going to play these dirty games of ours, then you might as well indulge completely. It’s all about turning back into an animal and that’s the beauty of it. Place your guilt on the sidewalk and take a blow torch to it (guilt is usually worthless anyway). Be perverted, be filthy, do things that mannered people shouldn’t do. If you’re going to be gross then go for it and don’t wimp out."---Master Aiden |
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06-12-2010, 10:18 AM
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#9 | |
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Quote:
I did it already this morning. His ass is officially kicked. I don't like the term, because it's obviously hurtful. Dylan and I know that. I wouldn't refer to my mom that way, nor would Dylan. I think though I have used it in the context of saying that "patriarchy expects women to be as such" when clearly women are not and should not be seen as such. But then we've already had the round and round discussion on that. We respect women. Dylan respects women (or I wouldn't be with him). One last note...I repped Sue to say that when I was a caseworker with CPS years ago, judges actually used the term (and one in particular here in Austin) to throw at women to make them feel bad for having so many children without thought as to what was happening to the children. Fathers were referred to as "sperm donors" and the mothers, just vessels for that, or the B word. It was gross and humiliating for women. Nevermind that the judge did not realize in one particular case that the woman had been gangraped oh say 7 or 8 times. Nevermind that in another case a woman had been raped and decided to keep and struggle through raising her daughter. Nevermind any of that. **ETA** (I am not saying or condoning that a judge should ever use the term against women, but am pointing out specifically how assumptions were made and placed on the women despite her circumstance, which is some really fucked up shit all the way around, so please don't misread me here! Thanks.) And Snow: Will you please buy me a cuppa coffee instead? I promise, I am much better company!!! Last edited by firie; 06-12-2010 at 10:31 AM. Reason: all sorts of typos and afterthoughts |
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