Breeder and other words we use to hurt our own.

sharkchomp · 06-12-2010, 01:17 AM

I've only ever heard the word used by lesbians against/towards heterosexuals. They meant it harshly.

It is a degrading word that lowers people to animals (dehumanizing) and I choose not to use it towards any person (unless they are breeding livestock or other animals ie. a dog breeder).

As far as gay folk using it against other gay folk - wow!!!! That's just sad.

~~~shark~~~~~~~~

Nat · 06-12-2010, 06:14 AM

This thread is about the word "breeder" and other words used to hurt other members of the LGBTQ community. At least, that's what I get from the thread title and every post made by the OP.

I think one thing to keep in mind is that even when LGBTQ people use this term to refer to straight people, even when the target is straight people, it does feel erasing and dehumanizing to LGBTQ folks who have kids or who have been in relationships where kids could have resulted. The fact that this group of LGBTQ people aren't even considered when directing this term at straight people is not simple innocence or thoughtlessness - it's disregard. Especially once an LGBTQ person has stated that the word itself is hurtful and upsetting.

We haven't gotten into other words seen as hurtful to members of this community, but the ones discussed most often in this community are incorrectly applied pronouns.

Other words that I see as similary hurtful: "real" and "true" - as in "real lesbian" or "real femme" or "true butch" or "real woman" or "real man".

Also the terms "more/most" and "less/least" in conjunction with butch, femme, masculine, feminine when used to describe others - that can be very hurtful language and not just for the intended recipient.

I've also seen people get very upset about being called a victim.

Though this isn't a specific word, I also find it alarming when LGBTQ people advocate outlawing divorce (stating that "divorce is the real threat to marriage", not gays). I've heard this more at protests against prop 8, but it's another way to erase and divide members of the community who may have gotten divorced. Beyond that, the sheer obliviousness to the ramifications of outlawing divorce stresses me out, even if the people who say this type of thing are trying to make a totally different point.

I also think it's alarming/upsetting when white members of the LGBTQ community show up at protests with signs that say things like "Gay is the new Black" or state in other ways that the struggle for LGBTQ rights is above the struggle for racial justice/equality or that the struggle for racial justice/equality has already been won.

Heart · 06-12-2010, 07:22 AM

It looked to me like Dylan was talking about the patriarchal context of a term like breeder, as it relates to conditioning in a sexist culture. And I, *hold the phone*, totally agree with him. It's why the term is so offensive.

I am constantly confused about the way things get personalized around here.
Dylan wasn't talking about a particular, individual mother or father or person.
He certainly wasn't talking about misandry (huh?). He was talking about patriarchy. About an environment in which all of us, (male & female) learn that a woman's value is connected to whether or not she bears children in the service of the patriarchy. That construct exists. Do many of us defy it? Of course! That doesn't erase it however.

I have heard the term breeder used in two distinct ways -- as a slur by queers against straight people, and by childless people against people with children. While these slurs may not overtly differentiate between men and women (men also "breed" children), I agree with SF that these slurs reduce things down to women's reproductive organs. It's objectifying, offensive, and derogatory. And its patriarchy that sets up the context in which that is so.

Heart

The_Lady_Snow · 06-12-2010, 07:41 AM

This thread is about the word "breeder" and other words used to hurt other members of the LGBTQ community. At least, that's what I get from the thread title and every post made by the OP.

I too thought that is what this thread was about, NOT how Dylan chose to explain patriarchy.

*slaps* forehead

Silly me thinking it was ok to ask this be taken into account.

By all means continue to use the word. silly me..

Heart · 06-12-2010, 07:51 AM

Snowy - I don't get it -- we are talking about the word breeder and how it hurts us. Are you saying we shouldn't mention the context of the word, we shouldn't mention patriarchy? I don't know what your issue is with Dylan per se, but like I said talking about the patriarchal context of a word like breeder is not personal. I for one, can't talk about the word and leave out the context.

And by the way, the word has been used several times in very direct ways to hurt me. I am, after all a mother and a woman and a queer.

Heart

The_Lady_Snow · 06-12-2010, 08:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heart

Snowy - I don't get it -- we are talking about the word breeder and how it hurts us. Are you saying we shouldn't mention the context of the word, we shouldn't mention patriarchy? I don't know what your issue is with Dylan per se, but like I said talking about the patriarchal context of a word like breeder is not personal. I for one, can't talk about the word and leave out the context.

And by the way, the word has been used several times in very direct ways to hurt me. I am, after all a mother and a woman and a queer.

Heart

ONCE AGAIN...

IT IS NOT ABOUT DYLAN.......

Talk about patriarchy till you are blue in the face, can it be done without the word breeder though???

I believe that this is what this thread is ABOUT..

How hurtful the word breeder is.......

Not Dylan....

I have no issues with Dylan....

One could say I would even buy him a cuppa coffee, not from Starbucks though he doesn't like em.

waxnrope · 06-12-2010, 08:40 AM

This is more interesting than a tennis match. Only my brain, not head, is going back and forth.
I agree absolutely with Dylan and Heart (and a few others) that the ROOT cause of the word is patriarchy.
I also agree with Lady Snow (now that's a wonder!) that the WORD is offensive and derogatory. I can see that, by her response (and many others here on this thread) that it is hurtful ~ no matter the cause.
If I do that which I was taught, to take something that is hurtful to another and reflect upon it, find kindredness within my own experience/s, then I look at it this way: If someone used the "n" word (I hate how "polite" that sounds, but would probably get suspended from the site for using the entire word, despite my ethnic origins), no matter how it was explained to me it's rootedness in colonialism, racism, patriarchy (and yes, it has a root there, too ...), I would see red and not hear much of what was said afterward. Because it has been used to degrade me and darker skinned people of color, because of the experiential history of its use (images of dogs, water hoses, burning churches, and burning children, rape, etc. immediately come to mind), I would REACT to the WORD and not give a rat's behind about where the fuck it came from. Sorry, I don't know if I can use that word here *shrugs*.
So, Dylan, Heart, etc., let's drop the hammer and stop trying to beat something into peoples heads when it is their hearts that bleed ... I hear ya.

Heart · 06-12-2010, 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

Talk about patriarchy till you are blue in the face, can it be done without the word breeder though???

How hurtful the word breeder is.......

Okay Snow, no Dylan in the equation. The title of this thread uses the word "breeder," so I'm not sure how to talk about how hurtful that word is, without using the word. We could say b******.

For me to talk about that word and how it has harmed me, I would talk about patriarchy. But that's me.

Not trying to nag, but just not getting how I'm not on topic.

Heart

06-12-2010, 01:17 AM	#1
sharkchomp Member How Do You Identify?: TG/stone butch Preferred Pronoun?: He Relationship Status: Single Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Knoxville Posts: 426 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 419 Thanked 1,343 Times in 309 Posts Rep Power: 9701639	I've only ever heard the word used by lesbians against/towards heterosexuals. They meant it harshly. It is a degrading word that lowers people to animals (dehumanizing) and I choose not to use it towards any person (unless they are breeding livestock or other animals ie. a dog breeder). As far as gay folk using it against other gay folk - wow!!!! That's just sad. ~~~shark~~~~~~~~ __________________ take a fish boating

06-12-2010, 06:14 AM	#2
Nat Senior Member How Do You Identify?: bigender (DID System) Preferred Pronoun?: he/him or alter-specific Relationship Status: Unavailable Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Central TX Posts: 3,537 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 11,047 Thanked 13,963 Times in 2,589 Posts Rep Power: 21474855	This thread is about the word "breeder" and other words used to hurt other members of the LGBTQ community. At least, that's what I get from the thread title and every post made by the OP. I think one thing to keep in mind is that even when LGBTQ people use this term to refer to straight people, even when the target is straight people, it does feel erasing and dehumanizing to LGBTQ folks who have kids or who have been in relationships where kids could have resulted. The fact that this group of LGBTQ people aren't even considered when directing this term at straight people is not simple innocence or thoughtlessness - it's disregard. Especially once an LGBTQ person has stated that the word itself is hurtful and upsetting. We haven't gotten into other words seen as hurtful to members of this community, but the ones discussed most often in this community are incorrectly applied pronouns. Other words that I see as similary hurtful: "real" and "true" - as in "real lesbian" or "real femme" or "true butch" or "real woman" or "real man". Also the terms "more/most" and "less/least" in conjunction with butch, femme, masculine, feminine when used to describe others - that can be very hurtful language and not just for the intended recipient. I've also seen people get very upset about being called a victim. Though this isn't a specific word, I also find it alarming when LGBTQ people advocate outlawing divorce (stating that "divorce is the real threat to marriage", not gays). I've heard this more at protests against prop 8, but it's another way to erase and divide members of the community who may have gotten divorced. Beyond that, the sheer obliviousness to the ramifications of outlawing divorce stresses me out, even if the people who say this type of thing are trying to make a totally different point. I also think it's alarming/upsetting when white members of the LGBTQ community show up at protests with signs that say things like "Gay is the new Black" or state in other ways that the struggle for LGBTQ rights is above the struggle for racial justice/equality or that the struggle for racial justice/equality has already been won. __________________ I'm a fountain of blood. In the shape of a girl. - Bjork What is to give light must endure burning. -Viktor Frankl

06-12-2010, 07:22 AM	#3
Heart Member How Do You Identify?: Femme Relationship Status: rainbows! Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: NY Posts: 466 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 303 Thanked 2,522 Times in 409 Posts Rep Power: 12032610	It's patriarchy! It looked to me like Dylan was talking about the patriarchal context of a term like breeder, as it relates to conditioning in a sexist culture. And I, hold the phone, totally agree with him. It's why the term is so offensive. I am constantly confused about the way things get personalized around here. Dylan wasn't talking about a particular, individual mother or father or person. He certainly wasn't talking about misandry (huh?). He was talking about patriarchy. About an environment in which all of us, (male & female) learn that a woman's value is connected to whether or not she bears children in the service of the patriarchy. That construct exists. Do many of us defy it? Of course! That doesn't erase it however. I have heard the term breeder used in two distinct ways -- as a slur by queers against straight people, and by childless people against people with children. While these slurs may not overtly differentiate between men and women (men also "breed" children), I agree with SF that these slurs reduce things down to women's reproductive organs. It's objectifying, offensive, and derogatory. And its patriarchy that sets up the context in which that is so. Heart

06-12-2010, 07:41 AM	#4
The_Lady_Snow MILLION $$$ PUSSY How Do You Identify?: Kinky, Raw, Perverted, Uber Queer Alpha Femme Preferred Pronoun?: Iconic Ms. Relationship Status: Keeper of 3, only one has the map to my freckles Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: La Reina del Sur Posts: 22,488 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 32,231 Thanked 80,076 Times in 15,669 Posts Rep Power: 21474875	This thread is about the word "breeder" and other words used to hurt other members of the LGBTQ community. At least, that's what I get from the thread title and every post made by the OP. I too thought that is what this thread was about, NOT how Dylan chose to explain patriarchy. slaps forehead Silly me thinking it was ok to ask this be taken into account. By all means continue to use the word. silly me.. __________________ "If you’re going to play these dirty games of ours, then you might as well indulge completely. It’s all about turning back into an animal and that’s the beauty of it. Place your guilt on the sidewalk and take a blow torch to it (guilt is usually worthless anyway). Be perverted, be filthy, do things that mannered people shouldn’t do. If you’re going to be gross then go for it and don’t wimp out."---Master Aiden

06-12-2010, 08:40 AM	#7
waxnrope Timed Out How Do You Identify?: Permanently Banned 5/27/2011 Preferred Pronoun?: hy ho, hy ho; he, she, it, whatever Relationship Status: Going slow ... Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: in her orifices ... la frontera Posts: 1,433 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 6,414 Thanked 2,957 Times in 952 Posts Rep Power: 0	boing ... boing ... (or thud ... thud...?) This is more interesting than a tennis match. Only my brain, not head, is going back and forth. I agree absolutely with Dylan and Heart (and a few others) that the ROOT cause of the word is patriarchy. I also agree with Lady Snow (now that's a wonder!) that the WORD is offensive and derogatory. I can see that, by her response (and many others here on this thread) that it is hurtful ~ no matter the cause. If I do that which I was taught, to take something that is hurtful to another and reflect upon it, find kindredness within my own experience/s, then I look at it this way: If someone used the "n" word (I hate how "polite" that sounds, but would probably get suspended from the site for using the entire word, despite my ethnic origins), no matter how it was explained to me it's rootedness in colonialism, racism, patriarchy (and yes, it has a root there, too ...), I would see red and not hear much of what was said afterward. Because it has been used to degrade me and darker skinned people of color, because of the experiential history of its use (images of dogs, water hoses, burning churches, and burning children, rape, etc. immediately come to mind), I would REACT to the WORD and not give a rat's behind about where the fuck it came from. Sorry, I don't know if I can use that word here shrugs. So, Dylan, Heart, etc., let's drop the hammer and stop trying to beat something into peoples heads when it is their hearts that bleed ... I hear ya.

06-12-2010, 07:51 AM	#5
Heart Member How Do You Identify?: Femme Relationship Status: rainbows! Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: NY Posts: 466 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 303 Thanked 2,522 Times in 409 Posts Rep Power: 12032610	Snowy - I don't get it -- we are talking about the word breeder and how it hurts us. Are you saying we shouldn't mention the context of the word, we shouldn't mention patriarchy? I don't know what your issue is with Dylan per se, but like I said talking about the patriarchal context of a word like breeder is not personal. I for one, can't talk about the word and leave out the context. And by the way, the word has been used several times in very direct ways to hurt me. I am, after all a mother and a woman and a queer. Heart