Breeder and other words we use to hurt our own.

Heart · 06-12-2010, 07:51 AM

Snowy - I don't get it -- we are talking about the word breeder and how it hurts us. Are you saying we shouldn't mention the context of the word, we shouldn't mention patriarchy? I don't know what your issue is with Dylan per se, but like I said talking about the patriarchal context of a word like breeder is not personal. I for one, can't talk about the word and leave out the context.

And by the way, the word has been used several times in very direct ways to hurt me. I am, after all a mother and a woman and a queer.

Heart

The_Lady_Snow · 06-12-2010, 08:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heart

Snowy - I don't get it -- we are talking about the word breeder and how it hurts us. Are you saying we shouldn't mention the context of the word, we shouldn't mention patriarchy? I don't know what your issue is with Dylan per se, but like I said talking about the patriarchal context of a word like breeder is not personal. I for one, can't talk about the word and leave out the context.

And by the way, the word has been used several times in very direct ways to hurt me. I am, after all a mother and a woman and a queer.

Heart

ONCE AGAIN...

IT IS NOT ABOUT DYLAN.......

Talk about patriarchy till you are blue in the face, can it be done without the word breeder though???

I believe that this is what this thread is ABOUT..

How hurtful the word breeder is.......

Not Dylan....

I have no issues with Dylan....

One could say I would even buy him a cuppa coffee, not from Starbucks though he doesn't like em.

waxnrope · 06-12-2010, 08:40 AM

This is more interesting than a tennis match. Only my brain, not head, is going back and forth.
I agree absolutely with Dylan and Heart (and a few others) that the ROOT cause of the word is patriarchy.
I also agree with Lady Snow (now that's a wonder!) that the WORD is offensive and derogatory. I can see that, by her response (and many others here on this thread) that it is hurtful ~ no matter the cause.
If I do that which I was taught, to take something that is hurtful to another and reflect upon it, find kindredness within my own experience/s, then I look at it this way: If someone used the "n" word (I hate how "polite" that sounds, but would probably get suspended from the site for using the entire word, despite my ethnic origins), no matter how it was explained to me it's rootedness in colonialism, racism, patriarchy (and yes, it has a root there, too ...), I would see red and not hear much of what was said afterward. Because it has been used to degrade me and darker skinned people of color, because of the experiential history of its use (images of dogs, water hoses, burning churches, and burning children, rape, etc. immediately come to mind), I would REACT to the WORD and not give a rat's behind about where the fuck it came from. Sorry, I don't know if I can use that word here *shrugs*.
So, Dylan, Heart, etc., let's drop the hammer and stop trying to beat something into peoples heads when it is their hearts that bleed ... I hear ya.

suebee · 06-12-2010, 09:02 AM

I really hate to see this type of back-and-forth on the site. It usually accomplishes nothing. But for whatever it's worth:

I believe that context is everything! Using an offensive word to describe an offensive concept/situation/whatever is pretty effective. It doesn't mean that the example extends to everyone.

As for the word "breeder": thinking back to my days in child protection I could have used the word back then. People who had baby after baby and had no interest in actually raising them. Giving birth to a child, or contributing your genetic sample to the process does not a parent make. My folks would be a pretty good example of that. Kudos to all the Moms and Dads out there who actually raised their children!

As for the actual word in question: as I've said - I don't use it anymore even though I've never heard it used in a deliberately offensive fashion. But it's just on my list of "no sense in using if it might offend somebody" words.

We have a myriad of ways of marginalizing each other. It sure seems like a helluva way to treat each other, especially since every single one of us on this site is already marginalized by society at large. But I think it's really just human nature. It's a way of making us feel that we're okay.

So, in summary:
dissing people just because they're not like you - not cool
thinking that simply the fact that you've given birth to a child makes you a REAL mother (or father) - getta life
having made the decision to have a child (whether planned or not) and hanging there and being that one safe place through thick and thin - WAY cool, and nothing but respect to each and every one of you.

's blurb over.

friskyfemme · 06-12-2010, 10:19 AM

After reading through this thread and responses to words used in other threads perceived as 'offensive', I have to say I am sitting here with a wrinkled brow.

I am thinking that some here just enjoy debating, some here are supersensitive to word choices, some are narcisstic, some are referees, some are educators, some are activists.

I agree that words are powerful weapons and powerful expressions of thought. We, humans, in years past were raised by the rules determined in our small corner of the world in which we were raised. This includes morals, ideas, spiritual belief, image of self,
image of others and opportunities. IMHO, when we are adults, we have the ability to decipher whether what we were exposed to growing up 'fits' into the collective Society(whatever it is). I firmly believe in exchange of ideas and opinions. What I strongly object to is the 'one ups' some seem to have in response to another's opinion. I don't think anyone should have to defend what word or phrases they find offensive. If it offenses anyone, than once I you're aware of it. Dont repeat it! (unless of course that is your intention than the you 'deserve/wish' to be dissed)

What I suggest is a thread where members can identify words/phrases that they find offensive.

This from a mother, grandmother, woman, femme, lover of stones, human being.

The_Lady_Snow · 06-12-2010, 10:47 AM

I am confused by all this right....

I can't understand how someone asking for the word breeder not to be used to describe a woman's pregnancy can not be understood..

I am not stupid I understand the patriarchy, and what was hammered into us.

But can't it be understood that maybe when some of us hear that word, it makes us cringe, cause god damn I was pregnant, not bred, and it was a terrifying, happy, life altering experience..

It fucking SUCKS to have it reduced to nothing when someone calls you a breeder or refers to it as a breeder thing or have been bred or any insinuation of that...

Can't you get that? Cause that is what we are saying at least I am.

Damn, it would be like me being an inconsiderate ass hat and refering to someone as hy when they are she...

end of rant.

Liam · 06-12-2010, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by friskyfemme

What I suggest is a thread where members can identify words/phrases that they find offensive.

That was the original intention of this thread.

The_Lady_Snow · 06-12-2010, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liam

That was the original intention of this thread.

Right????

friskyfemme · 06-12-2010, 12:35 PM

'What I suggest is a thread where members can identify words/phrases that they find offensive'.

Hey guess what! Medusa start this thread in December 09. Thanks Medusa!
Maybe this thread shoud be required reading before posting! :blushing:

Heart · 06-12-2010, 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

Talk about patriarchy till you are blue in the face, can it be done without the word breeder though???

How hurtful the word breeder is.......

Okay Snow, no Dylan in the equation. The title of this thread uses the word "breeder," so I'm not sure how to talk about how hurtful that word is, without using the word. We could say b******.

For me to talk about that word and how it has harmed me, I would talk about patriarchy. But that's me.

Not trying to nag, but just not getting how I'm not on topic.

Heart

Miss Scarlett · 06-12-2010, 09:13 AM

I admit to having uttered this word as a slur, in selfish anger, a time or many in the past. I learned this use of the word as a slur from an ex years ago. It's no longer in my vocabulary in this context.

BTW this doesn't make me a better person, just a bit wiser in my choice of words. I've got no business calling anyone names when I don't like to be on the receiving end of that myself. When my bad behaviour manifests itself it reminds me to strive to be better and that I am to live by the commandment in the Torah - "V'ahavta l'rayacha kamocha" ("You shall love your neighbor as yourself.) Something that is much easier said than done and is a constant struggle for everyone - humans being what we are and the world being what it is (as in far from perfect). I had this explained to me by a rabbi as "What is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor."

Nat · 06-12-2010, 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heart

Okay Snow, no Dylan in the equation. The title of this thread uses the word "breeder," so I'm not sure how to talk about how hurtful that word is, without using the word. We could say b******.

For me to talk about that word and how it has harmed me, I would talk about patriarchy. But that's me.

Not trying to nag, but just not getting how I'm not on topic.

Heart

I would love to hear what you have to say about the word, including the patriarchy part.

waxnrope · 06-12-2010, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nat

I would love to hear what you have to say about the word, including the patriarchy part.

as would I although, perhaps not on this thread?

JakeTulane · 06-12-2010, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by waxnrope

as would I although, perhaps not on this thread?

(respectfully)

wax... I say .. why not this thread? That is what this thread was started about. .. the usage of the word breeder and other words that make us "cringe" (as Snow said). I believe Nat posed a good question to Heart in asking what her feelings are on the word usage and the patriarchy that she mentioned as well.

The_Lady_Snow · 06-12-2010, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by waxnrope

as would I although, perhaps not on this thread?

Why the hell not in here?

We aren't some frail wall flowers who can't hear the word. damn.

Let's have the hard discussion about the word. How it's used to oppress, to describe, and to hurt women with..

It's what this thread is about hurtful terms here lemme requote the title of the thread for ya..

Breeder and other words we use to hurt our own.

I even emphasized it for ya

Dylan · 06-12-2010, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

Why the hell not in here?

We aren't some frail wall flowers who can't hear the word. damn.

Let's have the hard discussion about the word. How it's used to oppress, to describe, and to hurt women with..

It's what this thread is about hurtful terms here lemme requote the title of the thread for ya..

Breeder and other words we use to hurt our own.

I even emphasized it for ya

Ok, now wait a minute, because when I brought up that exact conversation...you said not to use the word.

When I made the points you've said here regarding the patriarchy, you said you didn't want to hear the word because it's been used against you and you're sensitive to it.

So what is it? You want to have the conversation, or are we not allowed to say the word. I'm getting mixed messages

Dylan

06-12-2010, 08:40 AM	#3
waxnrope Timed Out How Do You Identify?: Permanently Banned 5/27/2011 Preferred Pronoun?: hy ho, hy ho; he, she, it, whatever Relationship Status: Going slow ... Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: in her orifices ... la frontera Posts: 1,433 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 6,414 Thanked 2,957 Times in 952 Posts Rep Power: 0	boing ... boing ... (or thud ... thud...?) This is more interesting than a tennis match. Only my brain, not head, is going back and forth. I agree absolutely with Dylan and Heart (and a few others) that the ROOT cause of the word is patriarchy. I also agree with Lady Snow (now that's a wonder!) that the WORD is offensive and derogatory. I can see that, by her response (and many others here on this thread) that it is hurtful ~ no matter the cause. If I do that which I was taught, to take something that is hurtful to another and reflect upon it, find kindredness within my own experience/s, then I look at it this way: If someone used the "n" word (I hate how "polite" that sounds, but would probably get suspended from the site for using the entire word, despite my ethnic origins), no matter how it was explained to me it's rootedness in colonialism, racism, patriarchy (and yes, it has a root there, too ...), I would see red and not hear much of what was said afterward. Because it has been used to degrade me and darker skinned people of color, because of the experiential history of its use (images of dogs, water hoses, burning churches, and burning children, rape, etc. immediately come to mind), I would REACT to the WORD and not give a rat's behind about where the fuck it came from. Sorry, I don't know if I can use that word here shrugs. So, Dylan, Heart, etc., let's drop the hammer and stop trying to beat something into peoples heads when it is their hearts that bleed ... I hear ya.

06-12-2010, 09:02 AM	#4
suebee Member How Do You Identify?: TOWANDA! Preferred Pronoun?: Queen Bee Relationship Status: Good 'n married. Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Eastern Canada. But if I make a wrong turn at the lights I get stopped by a border guard. Posts: 1,499 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 2,355 Thanked 2,756 Times in 820 Posts Rep Power: 16450092	weighing in when I probably shouldn't.... I really hate to see this type of back-and-forth on the site. It usually accomplishes nothing. But for whatever it's worth: I believe that context is everything! Using an offensive word to describe an offensive concept/situation/whatever is pretty effective. It doesn't mean that the example extends to everyone. As for the word "breeder": thinking back to my days in child protection I could have used the word back then. People who had baby after baby and had no interest in actually raising them. Giving birth to a child, or contributing your genetic sample to the process does not a parent make. My folks would be a pretty good example of that. Kudos to all the Moms and Dads out there who actually raised their children! As for the actual word in question: as I've said - I don't use it anymore even though I've never heard it used in a deliberately offensive fashion. But it's just on my list of "no sense in using if it might offend somebody" words. We have a myriad of ways of marginalizing each other. It sure seems like a helluva way to treat each other, especially since every single one of us on this site is already marginalized by society at large. But I think it's really just human nature. It's a way of making us feel that we're okay. So, in summary: dissing people just because they're not like you - not cool thinking that simply the fact that you've given birth to a child makes you a REAL mother (or father) - getta life having made the decision to have a child (whether planned or not) and hanging there and being that one safe place through thick and thin - WAY cool, and nothing but respect to each and every one of you. 's blurb over. __________________ "Compassion, in which all ethics must take root, can only attain its full breadth and depth if it embraces all living creatures and does not limit itself to mankind." -Albert Schweitzer

06-12-2010, 10:19 AM	#5
friskyfemme Member How Do You Identify?: femme Preferred Pronoun?: precious Relationship Status: down to earth Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Arizona Posts: 332 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 395 Thanked 370 Times in 152 Posts Rep Power: 828	After reading through this thread and responses to words used in other threads perceived as 'offensive', I have to say I am sitting here with a wrinkled brow. I am thinking that some here just enjoy debating, some here are supersensitive to word choices, some are narcisstic, some are referees, some are educators, some are activists. I agree that words are powerful weapons and powerful expressions of thought. We, humans, in years past were raised by the rules determined in our small corner of the world in which we were raised. This includes morals, ideas, spiritual belief, image of self, image of others and opportunities. IMHO, when we are adults, we have the ability to decipher whether what we were exposed to growing up 'fits' into the collective Society(whatever it is). I firmly believe in exchange of ideas and opinions. What I strongly object to is the 'one ups' some seem to have in response to another's opinion. I don't think anyone should have to defend what word or phrases they find offensive. If it offenses anyone, than once I you're aware of it. Dont repeat it! (unless of course that is your intention than the you 'deserve/wish' to be dissed) What I suggest is a thread where members can identify words/phrases that they find offensive. This from a mother, grandmother, woman, femme, lover of stones, human being. __________________ Love and Light, FF

06-12-2010, 10:47 AM	#6
The_Lady_Snow MILLION $$$ PUSSY How Do You Identify?: Kinky, Raw, Perverted, Uber Queer Alpha Femme Preferred Pronoun?: Iconic Ms. Relationship Status: Keeper of 3, only one has the map to my freckles Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: La Reina del Sur Posts: 22,488 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 32,231 Thanked 80,081 Times in 15,669 Posts Rep Power: 21474874	I am confused by all this right.... I can't understand how someone asking for the word breeder not to be used to describe a woman's pregnancy can not be understood.. I am not stupid I understand the patriarchy, and what was hammered into us. But can't it be understood that maybe when some of us hear that word, it makes us cringe, cause god damn I was pregnant, not bred, and it was a terrifying, happy, life altering experience.. It fucking SUCKS to have it reduced to nothing when someone calls you a breeder or refers to it as a breeder thing or have been bred or any insinuation of that... Can't you get that? Cause that is what we are saying at least I am. Damn, it would be like me being an inconsiderate ass hat and refering to someone as hy when they are she... end of rant. __________________ "If you’re going to play these dirty games of ours, then you might as well indulge completely. It’s all about turning back into an animal and that’s the beauty of it. Place your guilt on the sidewalk and take a blow torch to it (guilt is usually worthless anyway). Be perverted, be filthy, do things that mannered people shouldn’t do. If you’re going to be gross then go for it and don’t wimp out."---Master Aiden

06-12-2010, 12:35 PM	#9
friskyfemme Member How Do You Identify?: femme Preferred Pronoun?: precious Relationship Status: down to earth Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Arizona Posts: 332 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 395 Thanked 370 Times in 152 Posts Rep Power: 828	'What I suggest is a thread where members can identify words/phrases that they find offensive'. Hey guess what! Medusa start this thread in December 09. Thanks Medusa! Maybe this thread shoud be required reading before posting! :blushing: __________________ Love and Light, FF

06-12-2010, 07:51 AM	#1
Heart Member How Do You Identify?: Femme Relationship Status: rainbows! Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: NY Posts: 466 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 303 Thanked 2,522 Times in 409 Posts Rep Power: 12032610	Snowy - I don't get it -- we are talking about the word breeder and how it hurts us. Are you saying we shouldn't mention the context of the word, we shouldn't mention patriarchy? I don't know what your issue is with Dylan per se, but like I said talking about the patriarchal context of a word like breeder is not personal. I for one, can't talk about the word and leave out the context. And by the way, the word has been used several times in very direct ways to hurt me. I am, after all a mother and a woman and a queer. Heart

06-12-2010, 09:13 AM	#11
Miss Scarlett Infamous Member How Do You Identify?: Femme Relationship Status: . Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: . Posts: 5,530 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 4,478 Thanked 12,947 Times in 3,419 Posts Rep Power: 21474857	I admit to having uttered this word as a slur, in selfish anger, a time or many in the past. I learned this use of the word as a slur from an ex years ago. It's no longer in my vocabulary in this context. BTW this doesn't make me a better person, just a bit wiser in my choice of words. I've got no business calling anyone names when I don't like to be on the receiving end of that myself. When my bad behaviour manifests itself it reminds me to strive to be better and that I am to live by the commandment in the Torah - "V'ahavta l'rayacha kamocha" ("You shall love your neighbor as yourself.) Something that is much easier said than done and is a constant struggle for everyone - humans being what we are and the world being what it is (as in far from perfect). I had this explained to me by a rabbi as "What is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor."