Cause & Affect: A Femme's Influence On The Friendships Between Butches and Transmen

[The_Lady_Snow]

Originally Posted by blush

I've taken heat for admitting it's hard sometimes to remember pronouns. It is hard for me to remember pronouns. It's also hard for me to remember names. I still don't know Goof's phone number. Or where my keys are.

I wonder if our beloved butches/transmen would begin a thread about how they could build bridges to improve relationships among our diverse femme contingencies? Or, to put it another way, is this as/more important than healing our own femme community?

I think they will talk about it in the other thread, about how we are influental.

I think it is all tied together, we all are, and how we behave about one another.

[blush]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

I think it is all tied together, we all are, and how we behave about one another.

Good point, that is very true.

[Nat]

I've been rabidly protective before when I have seen a person cry over their frustration over a thread. I have a really strong protective streak. I have figured out (am figuring out still) that it's not appropriate in most cases for me to run with it when I'm feeling protective of other adults who are perfectly capable of having their own voices and using them.

I'm trying harder these days, if nothing else, to listen to, understand and support other femmes (and myself) at least to an equal degree as other IDs.

[blush]

Originally Posted by Nat

I've been rabidly protective before when I have seen a person cry over their frustration over a thread. I have a really strong protective streak. I have figured out (am figuring out still) that it's not appropriate in most cases for me to run with it when I'm feeling protective of other adults who are perfectly capable of having their own voices and using them.

I'm trying harder these days, if nothing else, to listen to, understand and support other femmes (and myself) at least to an equal degree as other IDs.

I'm thinking about this protective thing. My intent is not to remove agency from grown-ass adults, but to add to their already existing agency. To double the power.

[Nat]

Originally Posted by blush

I'm thinking about this protective thing. My intent is not to remove agency from grown-ass adults, but to add to their already existing agency. To double the power.

That has been my intention when I do this as well but I have found this is sometimes seen as ganging up. I think it's a great ally tactic when directed outside the community at/toward the powers that be but it can possibly lead to a greater us against them type divide when femme allyship voiced in the direction of one group ends up dominating those conversations. I haven't seen you do this but I know I have done it. I think it also may just polarize conversations when the femme gaze of sexual and emotional approval hovers within those conversations.

Maybe others discussing gender stuff are impervious to the pressure of those of the desired gender, but part of my own gender struggles has been the scary question of "can I be entirely authentic and still be desirable and loved?" because that was my own experience, I often wonder if the femme voice in threads regarding pronouns, inter-butch, butch-trans communications ends up raising the stakes and further polarizing those conversations.

[SuperFemme]

Originally Posted by Nat

That has been my intention when I do this as well but I have found this is sometimes seen as ganging up. I think it's a great ally tactic when directed outside the community at/toward the powers that be but it can possibly lead to a greater us against them type divide when femme allyship voiced in the direction of one group ends up dominating those conversations. I haven't seen you do this but I know I have done it. I think it also may just polarize conversations when the femme gaze of sexual and emotional approval hovers within those conversations.

Maybe others discussing gender stuff are impervious to the pressure of those of the desired gender, but part of my own gender struggles has been the scary question of "can I be entirely authentic and still be desirable and loved?" because that was my own experience, I often wonder if the femme voice in threads regarding pronouns, inter-butch, butch-trans communications ends up raising the stakes and further polarizing those conversations.

Do you think the protecter thing in us is unbalanced because when we are out and about in real time we do have to be hyper aware and protective? Like the other day we were in the drug store picking up something and a cowboy spotted Cal and started posturing. Cal didn't notice but I did and I felt danger. So I put my arm around Cal and gently escorted us out of the store.

Stuff like that happens so much it is second nature. Because he hasn't yet had surgery I silently pray that he will be "Sir'd" at the same time he get's made so that we can get out of a situation safely.

[Nat]

Originally Posted by SuperFemme

Do you think the protecter thing in us is unbalanced because when we are out and about in real time we do have to be hyper aware and protective? Like the other day we were in the drug store picking up something and a cowboy spotted Cal and started posturing. Cal didn't notice but I did and I felt danger. So I put my arm around Cal and gently escorted us out of the store.

Stuff like that happens so much it is second nature. Because he hasn't yet had surgery I silently pray that he will be "Sir'd" at the same time he get's made so that we can get out of a situation safely.

You have really got me thinking on this one, Superfemme. I think these types of situations in the context of the outside world may end up carrying over. When I look at my own experiences, I have definitely felt the need, the onus to be protective of the people I have been with when there is somebody scarily homophobic or transphobic bristling in the foreground. I think that may be part of my own hypervigilence and protectiveness. I need to think about this more, but my initial thought is that picking sides and/or championing a side within a butch/transguy context is an act which can polarize our community, whereas acting in a protective way within the heteronormative cis-centric outer world would actually be the right thing to do, especially if doing so may minimize very real risks like violence.

I recently watched a bunch of youtubes of abc's what would you do? series (thank you Lady Snow for posting those links), and I was really horrified to know exactly how many people will not bother to help somebody who is in need of serious help - including homophobic and racist verbal or even physical attack. I think I also read in another thread that you have yourself been in situations where an effective ally would have been handy.

What I got from watching those and reading your posts is that it must be somewhat ingrained in human nature not to help others when they need it and so I think part of being a good and effective ally is to be willing to stand up, support and defend others when they are attacked or in need.

[Dylan]

Originally Posted by SuperFemme

Do you think the protecter thing in us is unbalanced because when we are out and about in real time we do have to be hyper aware and protective? Like the other day we were in the drug store picking up something and a cowboy spotted Cal and started posturing. Cal didn't notice but I did and I felt danger. So I put my arm around Cal and gently escorted us out of the store.

Stuff like that happens so much it is second nature. Because he hasn't yet had surgery I silently pray that he will be "Sir'd" at the same time he get's made so that we can get out of a situation safely.

I still don't know if this thread is for femmes only, so pardon me if I am out of line

I just find this interesting. Are you saying butches or men are NOT as hypervigilant and protective? I may have missed something, and I totally own that...I'm out of town and reading on my phone.

Here's why I ask...btw, I'm not calling you out...I'm asking seriously...so, here's why I ask.

Mahhh Woman notices looks/stares/whatnot from people that I never even see. She overhears comments and all sorts of shit I have become completely oblivious to over the years. I've heard other butches say the same thing about their partners. I *think* that because I have lived with the stares/comments for so long (as opposed to Mahhh Woman) I just don't notice them anymore (usually).

But one place I *have* noticed a difference between ALL of the femmes/women I've dated (when it comes to hypervigilance/protectionism) is I am very aware of my and Mahhh Woman's (what I call) 'bubble'. I may not notice a stare from 'over there', but you can bet, I know when someone gets in my/our/her bubble, and there will be some sort of measure taken to resolve the situation. Like even if I'm across a room or something, I wkill *know* if someone's in Mahhh Woman's bubble and such. I'm really not explaining this well, but...I have talked to other butches about this, and they *know* what I'm talking about...but when I've talked to femmes about it, they have no clue.

So, I'm truly curious...again not 'calling you out' or anything like that


Dylan