Spirituality and Orientation/Gender

[AtLast]

Originally Posted by foxyshaman

Third Gender is a term I have used for myself for many years... or tri-sexual. I do not use the term in reference to my sexual orientation, rather my spiritual identification. Shamanism is my love. Shamans have often been considered the third gender. They were often times the ones in the community who could and would speak/negotiate/heal both genders. Many traditional cultures had titles and designations for the shamans (also known by other names). I have felt as though I have straddled both genders simply because of the role I have been assigned spiritually.

I call myself a dyke, but that is another thread .

Spirit has called me to practice and study shamanism, and my training has been as a warrior. I tend to see my spiritual life as my masculine/Animus self and my living life as my feminine/anima self. In this way I see myself as a third gender, that space in-between F and M. Encompassing both as a balanced spiritual practice/balanced spiritual human.

When shamanic cultures were being explored/discovered most of the individuals recording what they saw came from a binary culture, with little or no understanding of a third gender. Often times the orientation of the shaman was not written about, because it was simply not recognized. In different traditions shamans would have to undergo rituals which included changing their gender. Or it would be that women shamans were not allowed to 'shamanize' if they had children and could only be considered a shaman if their children were past the age they needed their mother. Male shamans were often dressed as women and often took partners who were male or very masculine females, what we might term as butch.

Shamans have crossed the barriers of gender for generations. It simply was a part of their calling to encompass and understand both genders and the specifics required to 'shamanize' the different genders.

Anyway those are just some of my thoughts.

Thank for these thoughts.

This speaks to my internalizations of both gender and sexuality as a butch. The barriers about gender as well as sexuality have been so misinterpreted in modern cultures, I believe. And the tension created internally as well as externally due to this is so hard for some and so fed with the Puritan Ethic (well, as we view this ethic, today- this is what messing with history leads to).

I'm a blend (well, we all are, really) and am grateful for being at peace with this. Two-Spirit as well as the ways of the Shamanism seem to just be barrier free in terms of gender and sexuality which is a positive energy force as I experience it. I am grateful for this as many do not have this peace and flow. Although, everyone has their own way to get where they want to go!

I often think about the relationship of anima and animus with taking either testosterone or estrogen and how many transpeople begin to experience sexual attraction thereafter with many finding themselves attracted more to the gender of their own transition (male to male, female to female). Jung would have a field day if he were alive today and able to study this! For me this puts bisexuality as well as homosexuality on a whole new level.

[foxyshaman]

Originally Posted by AtLastHome

Thank for these thoughts.

This speaks to my internalizations of both gender and sexuality as a butch. The barriers about gender as well as sexuality have been so misinterpreted in modern cultures, I believe. And the tension created internally as well as externally due to this is so hard for some and so fed with the Puritan Ethic (well, as we view this ethic, today- this is what messing with history leads to).

I'm a blend (well, we all are, really) and am grateful for being at peace with this. Two-Spirit as well as the ways of the Shamanism seem to just be barrier free in terms of gender and sexuality which is a positive energy force as I experience it. I am grateful for this as many do not have this peace and flow. Although, everyone has their own way to get where they want to go!

I often think about the relationship of anima and animus with taking either testosterone or estrogen and how many transpeople begin to experience sexual attraction thereafter with many finding themselves attracted more to the gender of their own transition (male to male, female to female). Jung would have a field day if he were alive today and able to study this! For me this puts bisexuality as well as homosexuality on a whole new level.

I would be happy to know what Jung might have felt or written about in this context. I have never researched any of his papers that were written specifically on homosexuality and the "S" self relationship. I use along of Jungian terminology when I explaining shamanism to my students. I use his modern language to describe an ancient practice and idealogy. Our conceptual language has grown leaps and bounds, but our spiritual language has been much slower to come to the forefront of our intellectual musings.

I think we get the terms anima/animus confused with our binary concepts of male and female. Anima and animus are not related to male and female, rather masculine and feminine principles co-existing in our psyche. I am sure ALH you could write it better and more understandable than I could/can. My understanding... brass tacks... is that masculine refers to the doing, and anima refers to the being. Animus writes this message, anima is the inspiration behind the writing. I hope that comes out right??

I have long wondered what the addition of estrogen and testoterone have done to psyche, not just of the individual, but if we accept that we are all interconnected, than how does it affect the psyche of the family...community...society...country... I think it has to.

It has been exciting for me to actively seek the experiential aspects of Shamanism. I have pushed the boundaries, in my own ways, of gender and gender roles both in the physical world andin the spiritual world. I have found the the spirits don't really recognize gender assignments, such as strength, fortitude, compassion... rather they seem to expect the ability of the individual journeyor to transcend our preconceived notions of boundaries/gender.

I have not had to struggle with gender identity, but I have had to struggle with spiritual identity not only for myself, but also for my students and patients. In my case male spirits were my main teachers, except for my grandmother and holy hell you just did not wanna cross that spirit, no how no way. Everytime I did I generally ended up bleeding. Anyway I sense a tangent coming on... must stop tangents....

It is not often that I am able to freely discuss this aspect of shamanism that I find endlessly fascinating. I have studied Third Gender for a number of years. When I first read about the concept I felt like my world/foundation had rocked under me. I was really sent for a loop, I came back but with a much better understanding of myself. Interesting side note, when reading anthropology regarding shamans, just because the author does not mention the third gender don't assume it was not there... assume it was.

[AtLast]

Originally Posted by foxyshaman

I would be happy to know what Jung might have felt or written about in this context. I have never researched any of his papers that were written specifically on homosexuality and the "S" self relationship. I use along of Jungian terminology when I explaining shamanism to my students. I use his modern language to describe an ancient practice and idealogy. Our conceptual language has grown leaps and bounds, but our spiritual language has been much slower to come to the forefront of our intellectual musings.

I think we get the terms anima/animus confused with our binary concepts of male and female. Anima and animus are not related to male and female, rather masculine and feminine principles co-existing in our psyche. I am sure ALH you could write it better and more understandable than I could/can. My understanding... brass tacks... is that masculine refers to the doing, and anima refers to the being. Animus writes this message, anima is the inspiration behind the writing. I hope that comes out right??

I have long wondered what the addition of estrogen and testoterone have done to psyche, not just of the individual, but if we accept that we are all interconnected, than how does it affect the psyche of the family...community...society...country... I think it has to.

It has been exciting for me to actively seek the experiential aspects of Shamanism. I have pushed the boundaries, in my own ways, of gender and gender roles both in the physical world andin the spiritual world. I have found the the spirits don't really recognize gender assignments, such as strength, fortitude, compassion... rather they seem to expect the ability of the individual journeyor to transcend our preconceived notions of boundaries/gender.

I have not had to struggle with gender identity, but I have had to struggle with spiritual identity not only for myself, but also for my students and patients. In my case male spirits were my main teachers, except for my grandmother and holy hell you just did not wanna cross that spirit, no how no way. Everytime I did I generally ended up bleeding. Anyway I sense a tangent coming on... must stop tangents....

It is not often that I am able to freely discuss this aspect of shamanism that I find endlessly fascinating. I have studied Third Gender for a number of years. When I first read about the concept I felt like my world/foundation had rocked under me. I was really sent for a loop, I came back but with a much better understanding of myself. Interesting side note, when reading anthropology regarding shamans, just because the author does not mention the third gender don't assume it was not there... assume it was. [/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]

No... anima and animus are not heteronormative binary at all... that is the beauty!

[foxyshaman]

Originally Posted by AtLastHome

No... anima and animus are not heteronormative binary at all... that is the beauty!

See I knew you would put it better than I could. But that was what I was getting at!!!