Spirituality and Orientation/Gender

[Ebon]

Originally Posted by AtLastHome

Thinking that so many things get mis-used and directed. Maybe because understanding isn't really present? Yes, I believe we all make our own positive or negative ... post childhood. LOL... my Mom cut children a lot of slack (especially with concepts like sin- she said children did not sin!) and I guess I do too. When we are adults, it is time to just take responsibility for actions. But, the foundation has to laid while we grow up- mainly in our adult role models.

I believe Karma is real and infinite. But, as you say, its context is often misunderstood because it has become a buz word. Why people think that a concept that is ancient and takes years to learn (by the practice of a particular faith or spiritual path) can be thrown around like confetti is beyond me. Understanding Karma is not wearing a T-shirt with it spelled-out on it!

The foundation is so important but some parents are still children themselves. Some have children because they didn't feel enough love growing up so they want someone to love them and they think having a baby is the way to go. I know someone that did that which is why I'm using it as an example. Some people forget how important it is to teach in those younger years so that we don't grow up completely effed up. lol

It took me awhile to really get what Karma was. I grew up in a fear based religion equipped with the heaven and hell threat. I figured out when I was 9 that it was not for me. I am thankful that it is a part of my foundation but the energy is just so dark and thick. I did some searching in my 20's and finally figured out that for me spirituality has to come from within. I can make my own set of rules that are inline with the Universal Laws (including the law of karma) without all of the darkness attached. But at the same time I think the darkness is an important lesson for me to realize where I don't want to be. I had to experience and accept parts of myself that I don't want to be. It's hard but it has helped me see and feel energy better and understand how the universe works for me.

[AtLast]

Originally Posted by Organicbutch

The foundation is so important but some parents are still children themselves. Some have children because they didn't feel enough love growing up so they want someone to love them and they think having a baby is the way to go. I know someone that did that which is why I'm using it as an example. Some people forget how important it is to teach in those younger years so that we don't grow up completely effed up. lol

It took me awhile to really get what Karma was. I grew up in a fear based religion equipped with the heaven and hell threat. I figured out when I was 9 that it was not for me. I am thankful that it is a part of my foundation but the energy is just so dark and thick. I did some searching in my 20's and finally figured out that for me spirituality has to come from within. I can make my own set of rules that are inline with the Universal Laws (including the law of karma) without all of the darkness attached. But at the same time I think the darkness is an important lesson for me to realize where I don't want to be. I had to experience and accept parts of myself that I don't want to be. It's hard but it has helped me see and feel energy better and understand how the universe works for me.

Yes, the dark and thick- good way to put it. I am so thankful that even though I had a Roman Catholic upbringing, my mother threw out sins of children (she thought it was an insane burden for kids) and also would lean over us during mass and say that part isn't true when the priest did the part that stated the Catholic church was the one true church of the world. I know her ideas came about because of her own strict upbringing and having to deal with the wounds she experienced.

We were given a religious foundation, but, allowed to explore others. My folks had no problem with us going to a friend's church if we wanted to. LOL, and that was considered a sin by Catholics! To go to another faith's service! Weird! Later, I knew I had to leave Christianity altogether, but needed a spiritual base. Everyone does this differently and I think, just finds the road they want to walk which to me demonstrates the fluidity of faith. Even in becoming agnostic or an atheist, actually.

I did the same with my kid (and his other parents also took this stand). LOL, he ended up marrying a very devout Catholic woman! She would not marry him without his taking First Communion and being Confirmed Catholic formally!! He had him baptized and we all figured he would just decide for himself later about religion. He did. I adore my daughter-in-law, so what the hell! None of my business, anyway. He had many teachers and models and makes his own adult decisions. I bless them all!

I do wish I had much more exposure to Eastern religions and Native American spirituality as a child. These have helped me balance myself internally even though I am not one to practice in any formal manner really (always learning). Guess I am just focused on my internal processes, not outward manifestations of spirituality or faith. Dunno… I do know that my gender and sexuality are influenced by this, however in a way that is issue-free. I would love for this peace to be felt by all in this world as there has been so much ugliness because of gender and sexuality we all have had to deal with. I also know that I cannot be intimate with another without a mutual sense of spirit. I feel like we are in a time (although, just beginning in may ways) wherein this can be true. One can have hope! But so much of what we have known as religion, faith and spirituality must evolve.

[Andrew, Jr.]

I believe in love. That is all that matters here and now. When we are reincarnated we make up for the mistakes of now and today. Until we get it right do we move on in the next life. For me, it is about being forgiving and loving towards all. It is not easy. In fact, hard. But I try. I try to be a man of faith, and of good will towards everyone. I have also learned the joy of not judging others. That is really a load off my back. If I am judgemental, I miss out on the spirit of other people. What makes them tick. What is inside them. What happened to them. Why they behave the way they do now.

I do remember some of my past lives. If anyone has tried past regressive hypnosis please post about it. I find it very comforting.

I grew up with a self-rightous jackass. But I am working on forgiving that jackass. It is an ongoing project for me.

[Bit]

Originally Posted by foxyshaman

I too have come to embrace the idea that we remember who we were and that can affect who we are. I do remember lives as both men and women. I remember lives as good people and the not so good people.

I've been thinking about this. Yanno, I don't think people have to actually remember their individual past lives. I think sometimes there's just this sense of "who I am" and "who I should be" that comes through, even without past life memories... a soul sense, maybe.

My Dad knew who he was when he was born this time--that's how I know he's back--but I suspect that sense will fade. If it doesn't, then I suspect the little girl will have some strong tomboy tendencies, yanno? And I'll be interested to know how her life turns out and what parts of his past life have carried forward. He carried music in his soul like you carry Shamanism, and the new mother has named the baby Ella--my Dad adored Ella Fitzgerald, she was his favorite. I don't think this is a coincidence!--so will we see an incredible musician again, or will some other part of life come to the fore now?

What fascinates me is that my Dad was strongly indoctrinated with Christianity in his last life, and Ella lives in a Pagan family. Will Paganism give her a different way to understand gender? Will she have that knowing, that soul sense, that she was supposed to be a boy? Will she find a way to incorporate "man" and "woman" both into her life?

Maybe the soul sense will fade, and she will simply experience life as a feminine (or not) woman.

This is fascinating, yanno? I really hope I get to watch her grow up.

[foxyshaman]

Originally Posted by Bit

I've been thinking about this. Yanno, I don't think people have to actually remember their individual past lives. I think sometimes there's just this sense of "who I am" and "who I should be" that comes through, even without past life memories... a soul sense, maybe.

My Dad knew who he was when he was born this time--that's how I know he's back--but I suspect that sense will fade. If it doesn't, then I suspect the little girl will have some strong tomboy tendencies, yanno? And I'll be interested to know how her life turns out and what parts of his past life have carried forward. He carried music in his soul like you carry Shamanism, and the new mother has named the baby Ella--my Dad adored Ella Fitzgerald, she was his favorite. I don't think this is a coincidence!--so will we see an incredible musician again, or will some other part of life come to the fore now?

What fascinates me is that my Dad was strongly indoctrinated with Christianity in his last life, and Ella lives in a Pagan family. Will Paganism give her a different way to understand gender? Will she have that knowing, that soul sense, that she was supposed to be a boy? Will she find a way to incorporate "man" and "woman" both into her life?

Maybe the soul sense will fade, and she will simply experience life as a feminine (or not) woman.

This is fascinating, yanno? I really hope I get to watch her grow up.

I absolutely agree with you that we do not have to remember our past lives in order to be affected by them. I accept that prior to entry we decide a great many things, right down to eye color and height. As an adopted child I struggled to find similarities in my family. I was very sprititually driven from a very young age. I came with my mystic tendancies fully activated. Soul sense is undeniable, at least in my reality it is.

It will be interesting to watch her grow up, and I too hope that you get to do that. It will be an interesting set of lessons to share with others, and hopefully understandings that you can take to your next life... providing you are coming back here. I love the Ella link.. just positively love it!!!

[Bit]

Originally Posted by foxyshaman

It has been exciting for me to actively seek the experiential aspects of Shamanism. I have pushed the boundaries, in my own ways, of gender and gender roles both in the physical world andin the spiritual world. I have found the the spirits don't really recognize gender assignments, such as strength, fortitude, compassion... rather they seem to expect the ability of the individual journeyor to transcend our preconceived notions of boundaries/gender.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]

This is interesting. What I have found--remember, my experience is MUCH more limited than yours!--is that ghosts are generally gendered by their last lifetime as people or animals; for example, Margaret-Guardian-of-That-House remains not just female, but grandmotherly (I changed so much after I hit 50 that I'm almost willing to consider "Grandma" as a gender! lol, well, maybe Crone?). The animals who have come back to me as ghosts have come in a spirit form of their physical body, not always as the same species but always as the same sex, and the one who came back human was definitely gendered "girl/woman"... Maiden.

BUT the spirits that have chosen to work with me in my spiritual growth are different. They are not gendered in any way that fits my understanding of gender. Instead, they acknowledge my limits, my need to categorize, and they choose a gender for me to relate to so that awkwardness is reduced. In this case it is not gender that gets in the way of my spiritual growth, but lack of gender.

Originally Posted by foxyshaman

I absolutely agree with you that we do not have to remember our past lives in order to be affected by them. I accept that prior to entry we decide a great many things, right down to eye color and height. As an adopted child I struggled to find similarities in my family. I was very sprititually driven from a very young age. I came with my mystic tendancies fully activated. Soul sense is undeniable, at least in my reality it is.

It will be interesting to watch her grow up, and I too hope that you get to do that. It will be an interesting set of lessons to share with others, and hopefully understandings that you can take to your next life... providing you are coming back here. I love the Ella link.. just positively love it!!!

Lord love a GOOSE, Foxy, I dunno if I like that thought... does that mean I pre-decided to be fat?!

Oh.... wait a minnit... waaaaiiitttt jusssst a minnit... that one has possibilities.... No more guilt... "Oh, yes, I pre-decided my body size in order to accelerate the growth of humanity..." *snort*

Um. Okay, how come I have a nagging feeling this might actually be TRUE?! Did all us fat females make an agreement to change the world or something?!

Anyway, what I really wanted to answer was about coming back here, because that startled me. I used to be VERRRY firm that I. Was. Done. No more for me, please and thank you! I was DONE. I never ever wanted to be a helpless child AGAIN.

That's changed sometime in the past three years and I find myself taking it for granted that I will come back. I don't even know when it changed!

I do know that I hope to come back not just as a female, but as a Queer Femme, because I cannot imagine being the-me-who-I-am any other way. I think Spirit will have to be pretty convincing to get me to come back under any other circumstances.

Of course, there's 50 years of life to go before that bridge needs crossed... who knows how I'll change in the meantime!

[Venus007]

My spirituality and gender/orientation are related in that I believe that I am not only female but also the manifestation of an aspect of the divine or universal Feminine. I am the face of the Universe or of the great IS or Humanity to all the people I meet, or at least I strive to be. That face, for me is a feminine one. For me the divine is the mystery, the je ne sais quoi, the pi, the thirty three and a third, the shivery line between where the phenomena and the noumena meet, the Sophia. I believe that feminine and masculine are completely independent of biological designation. I do not believe in a god per say. My sexuality is tightly linked to my spirituality as I believe that orgastic ecstasy is a link to the divine, to enlightenment, to altered states of understanding, to the between space. As others have said before me, it is a struggle to articulate. I understand it perfectly but to describe it eludes me

[Bit]

Originally Posted by Venus007

....I believe that feminine and masculine are completely independent of biological designation.

Oh now, THIS is interesting... part of me says "No WAY!!" and another part of me says "yes, of course that's it!"

Ambivalent much, Cath? lol....

[Jett]

Speaking from my perspective, in my personal identity only.

As far as reincarnation, (and all purely in a hypothetical sense) when I was younger the thought crossed my mind that it would be likely if it existed that I was male in my previous life... my lady has made the comment as well. But that said I think it's perfectly natural for many people to be born with and/or develop strong dual energies that seemingly contrasts with bodily sex by societal standards .

These days I would say- again hypothetically- that if I had a past life it's just as likely I was gender non conforming... or fluidly gendered then too as I believe gender fluidity is natural thing and not a state of confusion created by a "spirits" or "souls" being binarily gendered and randomly tossed around (reincarnated) in different sexed bodies.

In other words I think it's society's pushing the (socially constructed) binary from day one that makes a fluid gender seem confusing to a person who is outside of what society deemed the only two norms.

In my life I've had a lot of struggles with "what am I". Speaking in the language available, within I'm distinctly of dual energy, yin and yang with a masculine slant in most areas and outer shell... yet it doesn't really trump the female energy, or outer markers... in most ways they are balanced and they are also one.

How has spirituality affected my views of my gender? I'm not sure it has. Only perhaps from my spiritual perspective and beliefs my "gender" feels simple, whole and natural, it's only from a societal, and human language perspective does it feel awkward.

Not sure I'm hitting on the mark of what you were asking for here Nat, but it's the first thoughts off the top of my head after skimming the thread (I'm pressed for time today).

Interesting thread (thumbs up),

Metro