The Mythical *Pass* for Differently-Abled People

[AtLast]

Originally Posted by Liam

I don't want a pass, however I do want people to ask questions for clarification. My experience has been that people make assumptions, over and over, and they are wrong.


A common experience that could be avoided and just with a question or two without presumption. Feels like common courtesy and respect for another person and wanting to communicate- not any kind of pass.


I don't think most people should have a pass, however there are those whom I believe should. When a brain injury occurs, the functions of the neurons, nerve tracts, or sections of the brain can be effected. If the neurons and nerve tracts are effected, they can be unable or have difficulty carrying messages that tell the brain what to do. This can result in Thinking Changes, Physical Changes, and Personality and Behavioral Changes. These changes can be temporary or permanent. They may cause impairment or complete inability to perform a function. One of these impairments, which may occur concerns social competence, it is one of the most complex tasks our brain encounters, and for some it doesn't happen. If someone lacks skill in this area, it is unreasonable to demand that it occur. Anger and punishment only adds to their frustration, and they only know that they did something wrong, but are left without a clue as to how to fix it. A person can read, write, take care of themselves and not be able to grasp the nuances that many take for granted. Their style of communication may seem inappropriate, when they are angry, scared or excited. I think this kind of person should get a pass.

I have seen that look on my nephew's face so often- knowing he has made some kind of social faux pas just by how others are reacting to him, but not knowing how to deal with it. He feels very deeply about the possibility of hurting someone and totally frustrated with why he cannot always connect the dots like other people (social nuances and cues). He is very bright. So often, it is presumed that he doesn't care about how he might have hurt someone else.

Now he does a lot better because of treatment and organizations for people with Asperger’s and his own family coming out of denial about Asperger’s and getting help as well. For a long time, his Mom could not face it because of his birth defects and all of the physical limitations and medical procedures he had to deal with along with physical deformity. I think the diagnosis also just got lost within this tangled web, too. We all were damn protective of him.

He feels much more cared about when people just ask him about what he said because it gives him an opportunity to not only clarify, but deal with the social circumstances that have kept him back for so long. He feels like he is being treated like normal (he does use this term) people in many ways! Like he is not getting a pass, but some respect and the chance to work through things with others. Just regular human interaction that many of us take for granted.

[SuperFemme]

Originally Posted by AtLastHome

I have seen that look on my nephew's face so often- knowing he has made some kind of social faux pas just by how others are reacting to him, but not knowing how to deal with it. He feels very deeply about the possibility of hurting someone and totally frustrated with why he cannot always connect the dots like other people (social nuances and cues). He is very bright. So often, it is presumed that he doesn't care about how he might have hurt someone else.

Now he does a lot better because of treatment and organizations for people with Asperger’s and his own family coming out of denial about Asperger’s and getting help as well. For a long time, his Mom could not face it because of his birth defects and all of the physical limitations and medical procedures he had to deal with along with physical deformity. I think the diagnosis also just got lost within this tangled web, too. We all were damn protective of him.

He feels much more cared about when people just ask him about what he said because it gives him an opportunity to not only clarify, but deal with the social circumstances that have kept him back for so long. He feels like he is being treated like normal (he does use this term) people in many ways! Like he is not getting a pass, but some respect and the chance to work through things with others. Just regular human interaction that many of us take for granted.

i agree.

he is not getting a pass.

[Apocalipstic]

Snow, in all respect and friendship...I do think that of someone crosses our boundaries 10000 times on this website (or anywhere) please put them on ignore and/or avoid them, walk away. The person who crosses your boundaries may bring joy and light to other people even though you might have a bad history with them. Some personalities just clash. It is unavoidable. Again, nothing against you or anyone.

There are some good , well meaning people who make really bad social errors. I do sometimes. You have witnessed some of them. Somehow people mostly seem to forgive me thank goodness.

It is personally devastating when I make these errors. I think it does anyone who makes these types of errors we work so had to avoid. Sometimes we try so hard, it makes the errors worse.

Adele, I have and will continue to treat you as an equal, there is no question for me on that subject and never has been. I don't pity you, you don't pity me. I think this is a great thread.

On the subject of rules, we have them and they should be followed. Can we have empathy for people and explain over and over the rules? Yes! Which is why I am glad the Admins and Mods go with a taking time off thing, rather than an outright ban most of the time.

So rules yes, ignore button yes, empathy yes.

[The_Lady_Snow]

Wow since everyone keeps making this about *ME* and outlining this about *ME* I am going to speak for *ME*. I should not have to put anyone on ignore when they keep being insistent, rude, sexist, aggressive with me. I shouldn't have to explain to anyone here over and over and I shouldn't have to tell them let's just be friends. I don't need those kinds of friends. I like to have friends around who are going to have respect for me, and my boundaries. I shouldn't have to explain over and over in a pm when I am uncomfortable, I shouldn't have to go to an Admin to get this person to stop, no should be enough. I shouldn't have to have expectations put on me to have more empathy. I think I had a hella lot of empathy and handled it pretty fucking good even when said person went after someone I love.

I don't understand why a DA's place in this community is above mine, how unsafe as a woman to have to see that my experience is being dismissed because everyone assumes I am NT. Read the TOS, simple as that if you can't abide by them that is not on ME.

Jesus Christ let's hope this does not ever become a r/t situation because what then you gonna excuse that behavior too and wave the victim away?

Unbelievable

[Apocalipstic]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

Wow since everyone keeps making this about *ME* and outlining this about *ME* I am going to speak for *ME*. I should not have to put anyone on ignore when they keep being insistent, rude, sexist, aggressive with me. I shouldn't have to explain to anyone here over and over and I shouldn't have to tell them let's just be friends. I don't need those kinds of friends. I like to have friends around who are going to have respect for me, and my boundaries. I shouldn't have to explain over and over in a pm when I am uncomfortable, I shouldn't have to go to an Admin to get this person to stop, no should be enough. I shouldn't have to have expectations put on me to have more empathy. I think I had a hella lot of empathy and handled it pretty fucking good even when said person went after someone I love.

I don't understand why a DA's place in this community is above mine, how unsafe as a woman to have to see that my experience is being dismissed because everyone assumes I am NT. Read the TOS, simple as that if you can't abide by them that is not on ME.

Jesus Christ let's hope this does not ever become a r/t situation because what then you gonna excuse that behavior too and wave the victim away?

Unbelievable

There are so many things in life we should not have to deal with, yet we do. I wish we did not have to.

No, you should not have to ever deal with anyone crossing your boundaries, and no you should not have to put anyone on ignore, but think of the blissful peace never having to think of that person ever again. Poof, they can dissapear to you.

I agree that no one's place should be above anyone else's and I am sad that you think that is what I am suggesting.

I also agree that rules are rules, however, I do think intent matters and compassion matters and I know that some people will not get along and it is best if they do not interact. NT or not. Actually everyone is somewhere on the neurological spectrum, I am not assuming anything about where you are ...but if someone causes this much distress it really helps peace of mind to ignore them. I have had to make that very difficult decision for myself and its been good for me.

Please know that I am saying this from my heart. It is very difficult for me to have this discussion and I totaly understand why you feel like you do and not saying you don't deserve to feel that way.

[violaine]

apocalipstic, social blunders/awkwardness/abruptness is what i am !

when i signed up here, it was as an 'individual' not 'we/us/everyone'.

i struggle with being lumped into a category, as someone who made an assumption. if i dislike assumptions made about me, i'm sure going to try my hardest not to make them about others.

majority = best part. all = the entire.

[Spirit Dancer]

I've read this entire thread and some things are clear, others are not.
Some of you may or may not know my child is an aspie.
In our home she is treated no different than any other child, I do not let her stand on the premise that since she is anspi or has a cognitive issues she will or cannot make it in the real world.
She's encouraged to be all she can be, she isn't issued passes for thinking differently. We live in a real world with real issues, and we are teaching her to adapt to such circumstances, is it different and challenging yes it is. Are we going to tell her to chump out hell no, the fact is we can learn and grow from differences or walk away. We want her to learn the NT world, and live to the best or her ability, are we afraid she won't be able to conform, yes. But at least we are giving her the advantage of refoucusing and learning outside her box, after all each disability does just that.

[Spirit Dancer]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

Wow since everyone keeps making this about *ME* and outlining this about *ME* I am going to speak for *ME*. I should not have to put anyone on ignore when they keep being insistent, rude, sexist, aggressive with me. I shouldn't have to explain to anyone here over and over and I shouldn't have to tell them let's just be friends. I don't need those kinds of friends. I like to have friends around who are going to have respect for me, and my boundaries. I shouldn't have to explain over and over in a pm when I am uncomfortable, I shouldn't have to go to an Admin to get this person to stop, no should be enough. I shouldn't have to have expectations put on me to have more empathy. I think I had a hella lot of empathy and handled it pretty fucking good even when said person went after someone I love.

I don't understand why a DA's place in this community is above mine, how unsafe as a woman to have to see that my experience is being dismissed because everyone assumes I am NT. Read the TOS, simple as that if you can't abide by them that is not on ME.

Jesus Christ let's hope this does not ever become a r/t situation because what then you gonna excuse that behavior too and wave the victim away?

Unbelievable

Lady Snow,
I'm quoting you so that I can reference this comment and add to it
I totally understand where you are coming from. For for months I failed to put someone on ignore who had crosed many boundaries with me, In my world we keep our enemies close so to speak, I tried to handle it on my own and then with the aid of a friend, this person continued to cross boundaries and passes were given to this NT person. The bottom line is I too don't use the ignore feature for the simple reason I want to know when there is an issue with said person. Not only until it crossed over to my r/t life and a threat was made did it stop. So clearly how far can one be pushed before enough is enough.

[christie]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

Wow since everyone keeps making this about *ME* and outlining this about *ME* I am going to speak for *ME*. I should not have to put anyone on ignore when they keep being insistent, rude, sexist, aggressive with me. I shouldn't have to explain to anyone here over and over and I shouldn't have to tell them let's just be friends. I don't need those kinds of friends. I like to have friends around who are going to have respect for me, and my boundaries. I shouldn't have to explain over and over in a pm when I am uncomfortable, I shouldn't have to go to an Admin to get this person to stop, no should be enough. I shouldn't have to have expectations put on me to have more empathy. I think I had a hella lot of empathy and handled it pretty fucking good even when said person went after someone I love.

I don't understand why a DA's place in this community is above mine, how unsafe as a woman to have to see that my experience is being dismissed because everyone assumes I am NT. Read the TOS, simple as that if you can't abide by them that is not on ME.

Jesus Christ let's hope this does not ever become a r/t situation because what then you gonna excuse that behavior too and wave the victim away?

Unbelievable

Snow -

I'm not sure that my perception is that this thread is about you. I think you opened the door for direct comments to you when you posed the question of "what do you do?"

If no one responded to your question, I am sure that you would also feel dismissed. I know I would.

I am interested to know, what do you think we should do in the instance you posed?

It feels as if when your question was responded to, you negated the ignore suggestion (as is your right to do so) and didn't respond to my suggestion of a buddy/mentoring system at all.

This feels, to me, like with a lot of the heavier issues, its easier for us to focus on the problem rather than look for solutions. That statement is not directed soley at you, but a general observation from my "me" place. I really hope you don't choose to hone in on this statement and negate the rest of my post.

I think that the allowances we make for DA's can also be viewed as we do the "isms". To say to a DA person, "Here is the TOS, its up to you to abide by the rules" is fair. Its treating everyone equally. The sticky part, for me, is when we (as community members) say to a DA person, "You fucked up and didn't follow the rules and its up to you to do the work to fucking figure it out"

(which, please don't anyone assume is what I believe happens since we know that the mods and administration spend hours "behind the scenes" in trying to work through issues).

The sticky part? We want to call it out and treat the DA as an equal yet expect the moderators and admin to assist the person in doing the work. I think just as with whites and privilege, the NT's, as the majority, have to be willing to assist in that process.

When we call out white privilege - we expect the offender to do the work. Hopefully, they have the capacity and resources to do the work.

I believe, based on my experiences, that DA's who continue to make social blunders, cross boundaries, break the rules, etc don't have the social skills/cognitive function/self monitoring/filters in place to do the work without assistance from the NT majority.

This is not assuming that you are an NT.

This is not me saying that a DA person is more valued in this community, at least in my perception, than any one else.

This is me saying that I am hopeful that when you feel you have exhausted your patience and empathy, that there is a system in place to step in.

I believe that a person has to have the skills/cognitive processes or the resources available to overcome some of the DA issues.

What I really don't want to happen is the lack of skills/processes not being taken into account and addressed and "just follow the rules and subsequent consequences" and that DA person feeling discarded and unvalued.

I just don't want us to throw anyone, DA, nonDA, NT, non NT, away just as I don't want that person to feel thrown away.

I really hope that I made sense in this post. I had to leave it and come back several times (stupid work) and I am not sure that I was as cohesive as I would have liked.

I also really hope that you will read my intent as one of support and community and not anything else.

[weatherboi]

hi everybody!!!

from my own personal experience, i was partnered with a person that is DA/on the spectrum. i really do understand the need for NT's to learn a better way to communicate and hear when interacting with Differently-Abled people and people on the Spectrum. i gave passes till it became detrimental to me in an attempt to give this persons intent the benefit of the doubt. sometimes it just is what it is and the person is abusive and cant help it. happiness is something everybody deserves but not at another persons expense.

i have volunteered for some years now at a facility that educates Differently- Abled folks. Not one time in all my training classes were we ever taught to give a person a pass within the schools community for behavior that was deemd as inappropriate or punishable. No matter what level of comprehension skills are present.

It is enabling to have this kind of conversation with someone when it is not true. It invites a relationship that may not be or is not welcome. So why do this???

"I'm sorry, I'm not interested."
"Why? You would like me. I want to be your girlfriend."
"Oh I do like you and I think we should just be friends."
"I want to be friends too."
"Good, me too."


so if a person invades my space and i handle it once, twice, even three times with compassion and they continue to escalate to angry behavior then at what point will my accepting and compassionate behavior come back to be used against me?? like when people accuse other people(potential victims)of asking for it.


so if i have a person on ignore and that person comes in here and posts something negative or threatening about me and a person that loves me or maybe people (more than one) that love me report this person does this mean they still get a pass?? i don't feel that is very effective or fair to the community and its unity and safety as a whole.

so lets say this happens to me with more than one person here...let's say maybe two or three people read that it is ok to behave this way?? what then??? do we give them all passes??

so let's say i decide to go to the butch/femme reunion and these same people that have invaded my space in some form or fashion decide they are gonna go?? what then??? i have to go under the guise that if one of them crosses boundaries in my real time space that again they get a pass???

how do we decide a persons intent??? behavior is one way i judge intent. i read words online and i read behavior in real time. it is for me to decide not my community. i will not apologize for being cautious of my personal safety because it has been invaded on a level that allows me the reason to keep many at arms length.

i have a person in my life (family friend i have known for years)that has to carry around a permit to carry a gun everywhere she goes because of a person who had a hard time understanding no. he was Differently-Abled. and couldn't understand why she didn't reciprocate feelings. i think they called this person delusional. this persons intent was never love or connection although said it was.

social blunders/awkwardness are something we all are privy to doing. the intent is easily understood and i don't feel that is the issue at hand. invasive behavior from any person is the issue, wheather they are NT, on the Spectrum or Differently- Abled. invasive behavior that continues and the intent behind it is not so easily understood and can be dangerous. so at what point do we stop excusing it and remedy it?? why does it have to be up to the person who is having their space invaded to navigate themselves around the offending person??

do I think that DA, and people on the Spectrum should be added in the TOS as to not be targeted for discrimination or hatred?...yes. do i think a free pass for being invasive and inappropriate??...no, not at the expense of another persons safety and comfort.

Grant

[Apocalipstic]

Originally Posted by weatherboi

hi everybody!!!


do I think that DA, and people on the Spectrum should be added in the TOS as to not be targeted for discrimination or hatred?...yes. do i think a free pass for being invasive and inappropriate??...no, not at the expense of another persons safety and comfort.
Grant

Agreed 100%

[amiyesiam]

I am by no means an expert. I have worked with MH, MR, and the differently abled for 15 years. Some things I have learned.

1. It doesn't matter if one has a mental health issue, tramatic brain injury, or if one is developmentally delayed. Nor does your race, religion, sexual orientation, socio-ecomonic level, or education level matter in this discussion.

2. Some people respect boundries and others do not. Some people are also, honest, caring, sharing, peaceful people and others are not.

3. One's backround may make it harder or easier for you to adjust and fit in in the world. And yes some have it much harder than others. And if we are completely honest, no matter how able or differently abled one is, how one looks and is perceived also matters, sometimes a lot.

4. I have seen able people refuse to respect boundaries and differently abled people who completely respect boundaries. And I have seen many times when able people cross differently abled people boundaries because they are being "helpful".

5. I have also seen cases where people use their disability as an excuse. And I have seen some able people come up with mind boggling excuses for their behavior. Like all people, we learn who we have to respect and who we don't have to respect.

6. It really comes down to taking situations on a case by case basis. In reality what we are really trying to address is those situations where someone does not get the hint, misses the social cues, doesn't take no for an answer, has it stuck in their head that they are right and they want what they want. Lucky for us these people are both able and differently abled.

7. So when an able person behaves badly the TOS kicks in. Easy as pie.

8. So I have to say, if you are differently abled the TOS kicks in. Maybe not so easy, maybe it sounds harsh, but I have seen to many times in real life when differently abled people respect my boundaries but not others boundaries. I set the rules with them from the first meeting. If you are able to use a computer, can post competent posts, engage different people and be liked by people, then you most certainly can understand being told no by someone. And if this has gone on long enough that admin and mods become involved, then you have probably been told no enough times.

9. There are some that have trouble with impulse control (another thing I have seen in all types of people) so they react before they think. I get this and have seen it many times in my life. But on the computer you have to type out your impulsive thoughts and hit submit reply. I have seen some really well thought out impulsive statements. Reality, the only way to learn control is to have consequences to ones actions. Ya know like in real life, when you act impulsively and bad can things happen.

10. Compassion is nice and it is doable to set boundaries politely but firmly. One doesn't have to belittle or call names. This is doable for the first few times, but honestly, I function on a 3x and you are out. Funny thing though, because I do set my boundaries so clearly and from the beginning (nor do I knowingly ever cross someone else's boundaries) with everyone (regardless of ability), I rarely have problems with anyone. It is not helping anyone when you give them a free pass, make excuses for them, say they can't help it, etc. Cause sooner or later they are gonna have to face someone who doesn't do that.

[violaine]

[QUOTE=weatherboi;152759]hi everybody!!!


social blunders/awkwardness are something we all are privy to doing. the intent is easily understood and i don't feel that is the issue at hand. invasive behavior from any person is the issue, wheather they are NT, on the Spectrum or Differently- Abled. invasive behavior that continues and the intent behind it is not so easily understood and can be dangerous. so at what point do we stop excusing it and remedy it?? why does it have to be up to the person who is having their space invaded to navigate themselves around the offending person??



an address long ago, i worked where a DD woman lived, and she screamed a lot. it was up to me whenever there, to protect my ears and my own personal space boundaries whenever possible, because i had the awareness/coping skills in place to do so - she did not, and would continue, because she was DD.

i also feel this way about other relationships [friendships/work/family/partners] if the person has an addiction, for example, and certain unsavoury behaviours are not acceptable to me from people/person, it's up to me to leave.

i think that i do understand what you mean, however- about your question. why should you be the one to navigate round the offending person? in my case, it took a good while to figure it out for myself because [for me] it is less about right or wrong, and hugely about my own sense of preservation.

do I think that DA, and people on the Spectrum should be added in the TOS as to not be targeted for discrimination or hatred?...yes. do i think a free pass for being invasive and inappropriate??...no, not at the expense of another persons safety and comfort.

Grant

i agree 100% !

[Gayla]

I'm so conflicted about this that I haven't even really been able to form cohesive thoughts. There's been really good conversations here and, while I appreciate all of them, some have just left me more conflicted.

Just in regards to here, on the Planet, on a theoretical level, I say no passes, it's all about personal responsibility and there have to be lines and consequences for crossing those. Then when I stop and think of the reality of it all, I know that's not always reasonable. There are some people who don't understand boundaries and who truly don't possess the impulse control needed when it comes to not crossing them. Should we punish someone who truly isn't capable?

Personally, when it's someone harassing a friend of mine, yes, drop the banhammer! When it's someone I know and care about, a little more leeway would be good.

I really don't think there can be a blanket response that will work in all situations. The fact that the admins and mods have stated that these types of things are handled on a case by case basis, combined with the respect that I have for that team, leads me to believe that these situations will be handled appropriately and with respect for all involved, even if we don't see it.

[amiyesiam]

[QUOTE=violaine;152818][QUOTE=weatherboi;152759]hi everybody!!!


social blunders/awkwardness are something we all are privy to doing. the intent is easily understood and i don't feel that is the issue at hand. invasive behavior from any person is the issue, wheather they are NT, on the Spectrum or Differently- Abled. invasive behavior that continues and the intent behind it is not so easily understood and can be dangerous. so at what point do we stop excusing it and remedy it?? why does it have to be up to the person who is having their space invaded to navigate themselves around the offending person??



an address long ago, i worked where a DD woman lived, and she screamed a lot. it was up to me whenever there, to protect my ears and my own personal space boundaries whenever possible, because i had the awareness/coping skills in place to do so - she did not, and would continue, because she was DD.

I want to respond to this. In PA, when we are hired to work with the differently abled, we basically have no rights. We are in their work place, their homes, etc. It is presumed that those hired to work have better skills than those they work with (they don't always) Within each of our homes especially, we have the right to do as we please, so do they. We can not "TELL" them to do anything. We can ask, suggest, explain why it would be best to do something, we can not make them, shame them, embarress them, etc.

This is an on line web site. This is not the same as being at home. Everyones rights are equal here. and honestly no one has the right to be here. It is a privately owned site. There is a tos.

your DD lady has the right to behave as she wishes. If you tried to take her to a expensive event that cost lots of $$$, she would be asked to leave if she screamed. Her right to scream ends where everyone else who paid $$$ for an event begins. And honestly they didn't pay to listen to her. Honestly even a NT person would be asked to leave if they behaved badly.


i also feel this way about other relationships [friendships/work/family/partners] if the person has an addiction, for example, and certain unsavoury behaviours are not acceptable to me from people/person, it's up to me to leave.

i think that i do understand what you mean, however- about your question. why should you be the one to navigate round the offending person? in my case, it took a good while to figure it out for myself because [for me] it is less about right or wrong, and hugely about my own sense of preservation.

do I think that DA, and people on the Spectrum should be added in the TOS as to not be targeted for discrimination or hatred?...yes. do i think a free pass for being invasive and inappropriate??...no, not at the expense of another persons safety and comfort.

Grant

i agree 100% !

[weatherboi]

[QUOTE=violaine;152818]



an address long ago, i worked where a DD woman lived, and she screamed a lot. it was up to me whenever there, to protect my ears and my own personal space boundaries whenever possible, because i had the awareness/coping skills in place to do so - she did not, and would continue, because she was DD.
what if her intent was to scream and upset you on purpose would you have handled it the same?? since intent seems to be an important topic in this discussion.

i ahis way about other relationships [friendships/work/family/partners] if the person has an addiction, for example, and certain unsavoury behaviours are not acceptable to me from people/person, it's up to me to leave.

so are you saying that if a person online keeps coming at me that it is up to me to leave??cause that is how i am reading it violaine. keep in mind that addictions and unsavory behaviors can be side effects of other bigger things going on in the relationship and deserve as much compassion as you seek for your situation. i am not excusing behaviors cause well i am not perfect and have committed my fair share of unsavory behaviors, like stuff that made me want to crawl under a rock instead of dealing with the consequences. in fact i am stilll held to some of those behaviors by certain people instead of getting any benefit of the doubt. *shrugs* i made my bed and accept it.

i think that i do understand what you mean, however- about your question. why should you be the one to navigate round the offending person? in my case, it took a good while to figure it out for myself because [for me] it is less about right or wrong, and hugely about my own sense of preservation.
well and this is what i have been advocating all along...self preservation and safety. right or wrong is relative and not useful to me. what i find useful is people being responsible for their own actions and behaviors. the ones that dont have the ability to do this, well i am not sure what to say about this kind of situation. i do know that when a member sets a clear boundary and it continues to be crossed by another member then placing said invasive member in a victim light is not the answer. i am personally disgusted by that tactic.

Grant


hope i dont sound too harsh...i am a direct and blunt person but i promise i am not coming from an angry place or have bad intent.

[adorable]

Originally Posted by weatherboi

hi everybody!!!

from my own personal experience, i was partnered with a person that is DA/on the spectrum. i really do understand the need for NT's to learn a better way to communicate and hear when interacting with Differently-Abled people and people on the Spectrum. i gave passes till it became detrimental to me in an attempt to give this persons intent the benefit of the doubt. sometimes it just is what it is and the person is abusive and cant help it. happiness is something everybody deserves but not at another persons expense.

i have volunteered for some years now at a facility that educates Differently- Abled folks. Not one time in all my training classes were we ever taught to give a person a pass within the schools community for behavior that was deemd as inappropriate or punishable. No matter what level of comprehension skills are present.

It is enabling to have this kind of conversation with someone when it is not true. It invites a relationship that may not be or is not welcome. So why do this???

"I'm sorry, I'm not interested."
"Why? You would like me. I want to be your girlfriend."
"Oh I do like you and I think we should just be friends."
"I want to be friends too."
"Good, me too."


This is actually how I have handled conversations. My tone and the way I chose words can change depending on who I'm talking to. I'm not a social worker or MSW - I was a history major. But I know that it worked for me. I made a friend without having to go thru major drama. Everyone choses how they communicate in this world. Some people make no apologies for it and demand that people accept them for who they are. I am not one of those people. I do try to communicate in a way that makes sense in the situation. Everything will not work for everyone all the time.

so if a person invades my space and i handle it once, twice, even three times with compassion and they continue to escalate to angry behavior then at what point will my accepting and compassionate behavior come back to be used against me?? like when people accuse other people(potential victims)of asking for it.

If you are "handling it" the first time, why then do you continue to "handle it" the same way? Wouldn't the first couple of times be an indication that it's not working?

so if i have a person on ignore and that person comes in here and posts something negative or threatening about me and a person that loves me or maybe people (more than one) that love me report this person does this mean they still get a pass?? i don't feel that is very effective or fair to the community and its unity and safety as a whole.

That is the idea behind ignore. If they threaten anyone they would likely be reported. So if you are ignoring them, how does it hurt you to do that - especially someone that grates your nerves?

so lets say this happens to me with more than one person here...let's say maybe two or three people read that it is ok to behave this way?? what then??? do we give them all passes??

If there was suddenly a bunch of people wanting special treatment I would worry. I have yet to see that though. What I have seen is that the people who actually need a pass have no idea they need one.

so let's say i decide to go to the butch/femme reunion and these same people that have invaded my space in some form or fashion decide they are gonna go?? what then??? i have to go under the guise that if one of them crosses boundaries in my real time space that again they get a pass???

If that actually happens and they physically invade your space - call 911.

how do we decide a persons intent??? behavior is one way i judge intent. i read words online and i read behavior in real time. it is for me to decide not my community. i will not apologize for being cautious of my personal safety because it has been invaded on a level that allows me the reason to keep many at arms length.

Keeping someone at arms length is understandable. Choosing to ignore people is understandable. Not wanting to deal with particular people for any reason makes perfect sense. There is no requirement to engage with anyone. Ignore them. If your personal safety is threatened, it would make sense to report them. As for judging intent, I read people's posts and look for a pattern. If someone has a pattern of any kind - like the way they post or how they talk - I can figure it out by reading their words.

i have a person in my life (family friend i have known for years)that has to carry around a permit to carry a gun everywhere she goes because of a person who had a hard time understanding no. he was Differently-Abled. and couldn't understand why she didn't reciprocate feelings. i think they called this person delusional. this persons intent was never love or connection although said it was.

I know people who are not DA that are violent, mean and dangerous. DA has nothing to do with or hold the patent of delusion. There are plenty of delusional people who think the world revolves around them and demand all kinds of exceptions for their behavior who are not DA.

social blunders/awkwardness are something we all are privy to doing. the intent is easily understood and i don't feel that is the issue at hand. invasive behavior from any person is the issue, wheather they are NT, on the Spectrum or Differently- Abled. invasive behavior that continues and the intent behind it is not so easily understood and can be dangerous. so at what point do we stop excusing it and remedy it?? why does it have to be up to the person who is having their space invaded to navigate themselves around the offending person??

The question for me still comes down to capacity. I have seen DA people be dealt with lots of times in lots of different ways. I assume you have an answer to this question since the way that I have attempted to bridge communication gaps you refer to as placating. The remedy? I guess kick them out of the community and the person with the higher capacity for understanding feels better about their surroundings? The ignore button is out because - well people feel compelled to call people on what they perceive to be threats or attacks against them. So I'm not sure what solution you might be offering other then banning. If it's banning - then I guess that would solve the problem.

do I think that DA, and people on the Spectrum should be added in the TOS as to not be targeted for discrimination or hatred?...yes. do i think a free pass for being invasive and inappropriate??...no, not at the expense of another persons safety and comfort.


Grant

A free pass for being invasive and inappropriate can only be given by the offended party. The collective us cannot give someone a pass for someone else. I can, and do chose to give passes. Not just to people who are DA but to people whose tone, tactics and communication styles are far different then mine. To people who say "this is how I am, fuck you if you don't like it, I refuse to change." I give people passes when they are having a bad day. I give people passes when they're drunk and normally would know better. I give them to my friends AND my enemies. It's my choice.

[weatherboi]

hi everybody!!!

from my own personal experience, i was partnered with a person that is DA/on the spectrum. i really do understand the need for NT's to learn a better way to communicate and hear when interacting with Differently-Abled people and people on the Spectrum. i gave passes till it became detrimental to me in an attempt to give this persons intent the benefit of the doubt. sometimes it just is what it is and the person is abusive and cant help it. happiness is something everybody deserves but not at another persons expense.

i have volunteered for some years now at a facility that educates Differently- Abled folks. Not one time in all my training classes were we ever taught to give a person a pass within the schools community for behavior that was deemd as inappropriate or punishable. No matter what level of comprehension skills are present.

It is enabling to have this kind of conversation with someone when it is not true. It invites a relationship that may not be or is not welcome. So why do this???

"I'm sorry, I'm not interested."
"Why? You would like me. I want to be your girlfriend."
"Oh I do like you and I think we should just be friends."
"I want to be friends too."
"Good, me too."


This is actually how I have handled conversations. My tone and the way I chose words can change depending on who I'm talking to. I'm not a social worker or MSW - I was a history major. But I know that it worked for me. I made a friend without having to go thru major drama. Everyone choses how they communicate in this world. Some people make no apologies for it and demand that people accept them for who they are. I am not one of those people. I do try to communicate in a way that makes sense in the situation. Everything will not work for everyone all the time.
yeah but the focus of the technic is creating a space for a relationship that may not be wanted and you didnt answer that aspect of it...you answered what you are comfortble with and what you expect everybody else should be comfortable with too.

so if a person invades my space and i handle it once, twice, even three times with compassion and they continue to escalate to angry behavior then at what point will my accepting and compassionate behavior come back to be used against me?? like when people accuse other people(potential victims)of asking for it.

If you are "handling it" the first time, why then do you continue to "handle it" the same way? Wouldn't the first couple of times be an indication that it's not working?
i never stated it is always handled the same. what i get is that if i gotta reiterate my boundaries to a person then clearly i am not the one with the problem. the fact that it has to be handled more than once should be noted as not ok and no means no. why does my handling of it need to be questioned if i am not the one creating the problem? mild form of victim blaming maybe??

so if i have a person on ignore and that person comes in here and posts something negative or threatening about me and a person that loves me or maybe people (more than one) that love me report this person does this mean they still get a pass?? i don't feel that is very effective or fair to the community and its unity and safety as a whole.

That is the idea behind ignore. If they threaten anyone they would likely be reported. So if you are ignoring them, how does it hurt you to do that - especially someone that grates your nerves?ehind
so you are saying they get a pass???

so lets say this happens to me with more than one person here...let's say maybe two or three people read that it is ok to behave this way?? what then??? do we give them all passes??

If there was suddenly a bunch of people wanting special treatment I would worry. I have yet to see that though. What I have seen is that the people who actually need a pass have no idea they need one.
i never said a bunch of people adorable...why are you changing my meanings around to suit your agenda. i am trying to have a thoughtful conversation with you. i said 2 or 3!!! and what i have seen is people who push boundaries are strategic about it and know they can manipulate people into advocating they deserve one.

so let's say i decide to go to the butch/femme reunion and these same people that have invaded my space in some form or fashion decide they are gonna go?? what then??? i have to go under the guise that if one of them crosses boundaries in my real time space that again they get a pass???

If that actually happens and they physically invade your space - call 911.
nice adorable...minimize my concerns to suit your agenda once again. ever heard of online stalkers??

how do we decide a persons intent??? behavior is one way i judge intent. i read words online and i read behavior in real time. it is for me to decide not my community. i will not apologize for being cautious of my personal safety because it has been invaded on a level that allows me the reason to keep many at arms length.

Keeping someone at arms length is understandable. Choosing to ignore people is understandable. Not wanting to deal with particular people for any reason makes perfect sense. There is no requirement to engage with anyone. Ignore them. If your personal safety is threatened, it would make sense to report them. As for judging intent, I read people's posts and look for a pattern. If some has a pattern of any kind - like the way they post or how they talk - I can figure it out by reading their words

i have a person in my life (family friend i have known for years)that has to carry around a permit to carry a gun everywhere she goes because of a person who had a hard time understanding no. he was Differently-Abled. and couldn't understand why she didn't reciprocate feelings. i think they called this person delusional. this persons intent was never love or connection although said it was.

I know people who are not DA that are violent, mean and dangerous. DA has nothing to do with or hold the patent of delusion. There are plenty of delusional people who think the world revolves around them and demand all kinds of exceptions for their behavior who are not DA.
yes adorable i am well rounded thinking enough to know this but thanks . i am not saying that all DA or people on the Spectrum are violent and delusional but good try!

social blunders/awkwardness are something we all are privy to doing. the intent is easily understood and i don't feel that is the issue at hand. invasive behavior from any person is the issue, wheather they are NT, on the Spectrum or Differently- Abled. invasive behavior that continues and the intent behind it is not so easily understood and can be dangerous. so at what point do we stop excusing it and remedy it?? why does it have to be up to the person who is having their space invaded to navigate themselves around the offending person??

The question for me still comes down to capacity. I have seen DA people be dealt with lots of times in lots of different ways. I assume you have an answer to this question since the way that I have attempted to bridge communication gaps you refer to as placating. The remedy? I guess kick them out of the community and the person with the higher capacity for understanding feels better about their surroundings? The ignore button is out because - well people feel compelled to call people on what they perceive to be threats or attacks against them. So I'm not sure what solution you might be offering other then banning. If it's banning - then I guess that would solve the problem.

adorable i never advocated banning anybody...i advocate holding everybody accountable equally on this website no matter what their capacity.

do I think that DA, and people on the Spectrum should be added in the TOS as to not be targeted for discrimination or hatred?...yes. do i think a free pass for being invasive and inappropriate??...no, not at the expense of another persons safety and comfort.


Grant
A free pass for being invasive and inappropriate can only be given by the offended party. The collective us cannot give someone a pass for someone else. I can, and do chose to give passes. Not just to people who are DA but to people whose tone, tactics and communication styles are far different then mine. To people who say "this is how I am, fuck you if you don't like it, I refuse to change." I give people passes when they are having a bad day. I give people passes when they're drunk and normally would know better. I give them to my friends AND my enemies. It's my choice.

wow...even if that fuck you was a collective general fuck you?? cause i tend to not take things personally when people are speaking in the general fuck you...but that is my choice. as for drunks, advocators of the devils side and just people having a bad day well i will say i never felt like i needed to give em a pass because what they are doing is only hurting themselves and not me or any of my loved ones. another personal choice i am happy with.

adorable have you ever been the victim of a violent crime?? for some of us that have our lives don't allow for passes to people who invade our space and continue to cross boundaries. it is my reality not a choice.