The Mythical *Pass* for Differently-Abled People

[SuperFemme]

Adorable thanks for your post.
I think June and I are speaking to different things re: safety.
This IS the internet and it's all out there for everyone to see. Forever.
BUT, POC have a right to feel safe (i.e., not seeing racism in thread after thread). I think the site has done a great job re. that kind of safety.
Women have a right not to endure sexual harassment, being unwillingly objectified. I think the site does a great job of that too.
DA'd people have a right to not be treated as second class citizens. I think again, that the site does a great job. They also do a great job of working with everyone based on their limitations.

I also agree about capacity. Again, there is some hard work going on behind the scenes to accommodate different levels of capacity.

As for rising to the level of expectations? I believe that because I've seen it happen over and over again. In occupational therapy, where if not pushed some of us wouldn't have ever talked, walked, or learned to swallow again. In brain injury rehab for two years? I saw it every single day. Most memorable were the complete 180's some did. One person didn't want to do the work, and was quite happy being miserable. So the teachers set the bar higher. Three of those students secretly became passionate about "doing the work" and rose from their wheel chairs to walk for graduation. Breathtaking.

I'm NOT talking about anything in particular. Not at all. This is very general.

I wonder, how in the world we gauge who is appropriately offended? That sounds presumptive to me, and I am unsure there is fairness in attempting to do so. Not that I am set in stone one way or another, just not sure about putting the burden on a person who is being harassed, stalked, or threatened.

I know there is no one right answer, I wasn't meaning to give the impression that there was.

I just choose to have faith in mankind and believe that people are coming from a good place.

I am also aware that this site is not easy to navigate, and that if someone has the capacity to do so, then it is not a huge expectation to require people to follow the TOS. The range of how that is achieved is going to look very different for a DA'd person than it is for somebody who is not DA'd. Never the less it would be giving a false sense of "being above the law" to a DA'd person to NOT require following the TOS. Offline? One must obey the rules. If one can only walk? Then it is pretty important to know the laws. Not doing so can result in severe consequences, even death. One must pay for things at the store, or face a jail sentence. One must follow the rules if one takes public transportation that is specifically for DA'd persons, or one can find themselves banned from using that service.

The public in general is uncomfortable with DA'd people. I have so many awful stories...like having a grand mal seizure and coming to with a gun in my face. Security guard was convinced the seizure was either a) demonic or b) the result of a drug overdose. I cannot tell you how terrifying that was. I have had police called on me for all sorts of reasons pertaining to my different ability. It can truly be miserable sometimes.

I don't want anyone to go after a DA'd person. It is my dream that we will act accordingly. I didn't mean to leave the impression that there should be a no tolerance policy for DA'd people. That is not at all what I am discussing.

I'm sorry your brain was swelling. Been there, done that and it sucks. Big.
Random thought, I know. I just have lived with it and understand what it can do.

[Apocalipstic]

If someone is dangerous why are they still here?

Otherwise who is to say that AS people even want to change or should to make things easier for others?

I try to learn from experiences and to appogize a lot and thank people for their help, not everyone feels that way. Many deaf people do not want to hear...Autistic people can like their way of being. I am sure there are other examples as well.

People who don't take their medicine so they can be more artistic?

Do we give them passes? I think it is important that we do.

Not everyone can increase their capacity, or even wants to.

I think Liam's? suggestion of a buddy system in the most severe cases, if there is someone who wants to help and everyone is agreeable.

[Soft*Silver]

On another site, I acted as a "buddy" for someone who had very poor social skills, could not read or chose not to read social cues and was sexually inappropriate to the point of making people so uncomfortable they considered calling in the police. I offered to be their buddy to help them not get kicked off the site.

I was SO stupid!

What I found out after awhile was this was much larger than what was being presented, and all that was being presented as DA wasnt necessarily DA. At least not in the diagnosis given. (There has to be some reason for someone created that much drama and crisis to get attention. )

I stepped back and took a good look at the interaction of this person with everyone. There was a definite pattern. I did an intervention online with this person and basically became a target of theirs afterwards. But at least I was out of their loop of frenzy...

The reason I bring this up, is that by attempting to help someone socialize in a group setting, by offering a buddy to help out, makes the buddy responsible (and thus the admins and mods as well as the "buddy") and if this person who is aided escalates or becomes confrontational or hostile to the cueing, and decides to act out and harms someone, the buddy and admins and mods will be set up for liability since they took the responsibility.

I realized after my personal experience just how scared I should have been. Sometimes, what you see online is only the tip of the ice burg....

and also, people hide diagnosis ...and some will self-assign diagnosis without therapeutic assignment. Just because it quacks like a duck doesnt mean its not a chicken in duck's feathers...

I like the idea of an ambassador where someone can GO to the ambassador if they need help

but I am really opposed to a Buddy goes to them and walks them thru their postings and interactions and watches out for their inappropriate behaviors. Makes me very uneasy...

[Apocalipstic]

So sorry this happened to you. You make a good point that there are on line predators.

You know, that does make sense, if someone refuses to use the ignore button, then why would they listen to someone supposed to help them.

We need to be very careful who we give our phone numbers to. Very careful.

Originally Posted by softness

On another site, I acted as a "buddy" for someone who had very poor social skills, could not read or chose not to read social cues and was sexually inappropriate to the point of making people so uncomfortable they considered calling in the police. I offered to be their buddy to help them not get kicked off the site.

I was SO stupid!

What I found out after awhile was this was much larger than what was being presented, and all that was being presented as DA wasnt necessarily DA. At least not in the diagnosis given. (There has to be some reason for someone created that much drama and crisis to get attention. )

I stepped back and took a good look at the interaction of this person with everyone. There was a definite pattern. I did an intervention online with this person and basically became a target of theirs afterwards. But at least I was out of their loop of frenzy...

The reason I bring this up, is that by attempting to help someone socialize in a group setting, by offering a buddy to help out, makes the buddy responsible (and thus the admins and mods as well as the "buddy") and if this person who is aided escalates or becomes confrontational or hostile to the cueing, and decides to act out and harms someone, the buddy and admins and mods will be set up for liability since they took the responsibility.

I realized after my personal experience just how scared I should have been. Sometimes, what you see online is only the tip of the ice burg....

and also, people hide diagnosis ...and some will self-assign diagnosis without therapeutic assignment. Just because it quacks like a duck doesnt mean its not a chicken in duck's feathers...

I like the idea of an ambassador where someone can GO to the ambassador if they need help

but I am really opposed to a Buddy goes to them and walks them thru their postings and interactions and watches out for their inappropriate behaviors. Makes me very uneasy...

[Soft*Silver]

and your addresses, and work place names and towns, and your personal emails...

online predators arent always child molesters. Sometimes they are people who like to create chaos..it serves as a way of feeling in control. If they are the one creating the chaos, then they can affect its pace and direction. And this chaos is attention serving. They also "groom" their victims just like a child molester grooms his victims. Bonding, isolating, splitting behaviors (he said this about you, so he isnt my friend anymore..you are!) creating a codependency between you and them, stroking your ego (I fell for this and ashamedly, I admit it. Taught me a valuable lesson), etc. Once groomed, you are invested with someone who is a master/mistress of manipulation. And yes, they ARE DA...but as others have said, none of us are acting as therapists or social workers on this site. And this level of behavior can exceed appropriate behavior for ANYONE on this site..

these kind of folks are rarer than a albino zebra. But they are around, and I did find one on another site. I had to take a good hard look at why I fell for this. And it was ego based. (Working hard on that now.) 99.9% of the people you meet online will not be anything like this. But .01% will be.

I have learned not to give out too much information too soon.

Originally Posted by apocalipstic

So sorry this happened to you. You make a good point that there are on line predators.

You know, that does make sense, if someone refuses to use the ignore button, then why would they listen to someone supposed to help them.

We need to be very careful who we give our phone numbers to. Very careful.

[SuperFemme]

I would like to reiterate this: Nobody is being asked to change. Or to "grow their capacity". I want that to be very clear. Asking people to work with the capacity that they already have is not asking anyone to change. It is not asking people to suddenly have a greater capacity. Simply to work with what you've got.

Also, I would like to once more be super clear about what the "Mythical Pass" is that I am referring to. Because I feel that the definition keeps getting lost.
Mythical Pass = not requiring a differently abled person to follow the rules.

A pass is NOT about giving somebody leeway. Not about choosing to act/interact with a person when concerns come up. Not about abandoning the empathy & compassion with which the admin/owner treat everyone with. Not a witch hunt. Not about advocating (or not) for another member.

I *hear* the AS members and their concerns. There is no agenda, and nobody is complaining about you. Nor asking you to change. I feel like this pass issue has struck a chord that is not positive.

I am also not demanding people come to me for anything. I *am* here should anyone choose to do that, but please, feel free to look to your peers or whomever it may be that can be of assistance. Hell go right to the mods/admins if you have an issue. But please? Don't not go to anyone. If something is not addressed, it can not be changed.

Softness? I wanted to thank you for sharing your experience, that was really valuable information. I'm so sorry you had to go through that.
But? It sounds like you have done the hard work around it and that it won't easily happen again. That is success.

Anyone that does feel ok about coming to me? Pls know that you can do so for any number of reasons. My goal is to make sure that the site is aware of any changes needed, and that we have proper outreach to differently abled members.

[violaine]

[QUOTE=SuperFemme;157752]I would like to reiterate this: Nobody is being asked to change. Or to "grow their capacity". I want that to be very clear. Asking people to work with the capacity that they already have is not asking anyone to change. It is not asking people to suddenly have a greater capacity. Simply to work with what you've got.

Also, I would like to once more be super clear about what the "Mythical Pass" is that I am referring to. Because I feel that the definition keeps getting lost.
Mythical Pass = not requiring a differently abled person to follow the rules.

A pass is NOT about giving somebody leeway. N''ot about choosing to act/interact with a person when concerns come up. Not about abandoning the empathy & compassion with which the admin/owner treat everyone with. Not a witch hunt. Not about advocating (or not) for another member.

I *hear* the AS members and their concerns. There is no agenda, and nobody is complaining about you. Nor asking you to change. I feel like this pass issue has struck a chord that is not positive.

SuperFemme,

i was thinking about something-

when you write that the 'definition keeps getting lost' and/or the pass issue has 'struck a negative chord' - i'm wondering if it's because there are other DA people in this thread, and not everyone will see things the way you see/comprehend them?

i probably will not/cannot process exactly the same as another aspie- but we may have a better understanding of things we try to communicate between ourselves, due to at least, some of the AT wiring. maybe i have the most reasons/times for editing [smile].

does this make sense?

[AtLast]

Originally Posted by softness

and your addresses, and work place names and towns, and your personal emails...

online predators arent always child molesters. Sometimes they are people who like to create chaos..it serves as a way of feeling in control. If they are the one creating the chaos, then they can affect its pace and direction. And this chaos is attention serving. They also "groom" their victims just like a child molester grooms his victims. Bonding, isolating, splitting behaviors (he said this about you, so he isnt my friend anymore..you are!) creating a codependency between you and them, stroking your ego (I fell for this and ashamedly, I admit it. Taught me a valuable lesson), etc. Once groomed, you are invested with someone who is a master/mistress of manipulation. And yes, they ARE DA...but as others have said, none of us are acting as therapists or social workers on this site. And this level of behavior can exceed appropriate behavior for ANYONE on this site..

these kind of folks are rarer than a albino zebra. But they are around, and I did find one on another site. I had to take a good hard look at why I fell for this. And it was ego based. (Working hard on that now.) 99.9% of the people you meet online will not be anything like this. But .01% will be.

I have learned not to give out too much information too soon.

Good advise!

Unfortunately, that very, very samall percentage does exist and adults can certainly be taken advantaged of (or manipulated) by these people and targeted. No, don't give out to much information, too soon. Nothing wrong with caution.

[Apocalipstic]

I do think that is someone wanted to help and be a buddy it should be someone of the same gender. I think wayyy less confusion would happen that way.

and

Don't give out your phone numbers and adresses to anyone!