Proposed Mosque Near Ground Zero

[morningstar55]

what religion was .. Timothy McVeigh ?? should maybe what ever his was , should we have the same view on what is being built in OK , where he blew up that building and killed all them people and kids??
i dont think all muslims are to blame, ...just like are all catholics to blame to be child molestors seeing how there's a lot of priest getting caught these days?? and have not read anywhere that they are foreigners either.. im not rooting for them or this in NYC but im just trying to look at this from all views.

wait.... just found McVeighs religion.. Throughout his childhood, he and his father were Roman Catholic and regularly attended daily Mass at Good Shepherd Church in Pendleton, New York..

Throughout his childhood, he and his father were Roman Catholic and regularly attended daily Mass at Good Shepherd Church in Pendleton, New York

[The_Lady_Snow]

Originally Posted by morningstar55

what religion was .. Timothy McVeigh ?? should maybe what ever his was , should we have the same view on what is being built in OK , where he blew up that building and killed all them people and kids??
i dont think all muslims are to blame, ...just like are all catholics to blame to be child molestors seeing how there's a lot of priest getting caught these days?? and have not read anywhere that they are foreigners either.. im not rooting for them or this in NYC but im just trying to look at this from all views.

wait.... just found McVeighs religion.. Throughout his childhood, he and his father were Roman Catholic and regularly attended daily Mass at Good Shepherd Church in Pendleton, New York..

Throughout his childhood, he and his father were Roman Catholic and regularly attended daily Mass at Good Shepherd Church in Pendleton, New York

What sides are there to look at??? Why can't a Mosque be built or even a community center or hell something anything with Muslim ties?

Why? We have churches at every block corner, why can't all of us who do not follow Christian oppression be allowed to build a place wherever there is a space?

Extremists were responsible for 9-11 I just don't understand how people don't get this.

Honestly there is no all sides kinds of views, because that day ALL of us regardless of race, religion or gender felt it, were impacted, and remember that very day that our government used a tragedy to install fear into Americans about someone who is not WHITE nor Christian. THAT is the reality of it and it's still crippling this country to this very day.

[Apocalipstic]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

What sides are there to look at??? Why can't a Mosque be built or even a community center or hell something anything with Muslim ties?

Why? We have churches at every block corner, why can't all of us who do not follow Christian oppression be allowed to build a place wherever there is a space?

Extremists were responsible for 9-11 I just don't understand how people don't get this.

Honestly there is no all sides kinds of views, because that day ALL of us regardless of race, religion or gender felt it, were impacted, and remember that very day that our government used a tragedy to install fear into Americans about someone who is not WHITE nor Christian. THAT is the reality of it and it's still crippling this country to this very day.

That ridiculous and scary Patriot Act!

We still don't have those rights back.

[waxnrope]

In my opinion, 911 served to accelerate the U.S.'s return to ugliness since the Reagan years. Nothing surprises me any more

[sweetbutch26]

i don't believe in stereotyping a whole group based on what a few\minority do. our community should know that better than any other! the muslims that want the mosque don't want to fly planes into buildings or hurt or kill anyone and they had nothing to do with 9-11. true terrorism begins the day we lose our constitutional liberties such as freedom of religion.

[Dylan]

Originally Posted by morningstar55

what religion was .. Timothy McVeigh ?? should maybe what ever his was , should we have the same view on what is being built in OK , where he blew up that building and killed all them people and kids??
i dont think all muslims are to blame, ...just like are all catholics to blame to be child molestors seeing how there's a lot of priest getting caught these days?? and have not read anywhere that they are foreigners either.. im not rooting for them or this in NYC but im just trying to look at this from all views.

wait.... just found McVeighs religion.. Throughout his childhood, he and his father were Roman Catholic and regularly attended daily Mass at Good Shepherd Church in Pendleton, New York..

Throughout his childhood, he and his father were Roman Catholic and regularly attended daily Mass at Good Shepherd Church in Pendleton, New York

And why is it we all weren't aware from the beginning what McViegh's religion was? Why is it the media never shouted out, "OMG, We're Under Attack From HomeGrown Christians! Run For Your Lives!"

Why is it the media, people, Amuricans, etc NEVER went on some rampage about Catholocism, Christianity, The Bible, etc? And how come NO ONE is up in arms about the fact that there's a church right next to where the Federal Building was, AND there's a church within one block...that's TWOOOOOOOOO churches! The horrah of it all...having churches of the bomber's affiliation RIGHT next to the site! How disrespectful (to whom I don't really know, but bigotry and prejudice [and xtian privilege] doesn't always have to be logical or rational, so...)

But now that I've brought it up...to whom is it 'disrespectful' if there's a Muslim community center or mosque or a Muslim ANYTHING really? WHO is being disrespected? Serious question.


Dylan

And how come there was never any (excused) panic after Oklahoma City in which (white) people ran around beating and killing people who 'looked like' the bomber (i.e. militaristic white males with brownish hair worn in a 'high and tight' style...you know, cuz that's what allllllllllllll xtian bombers look like, and they should all be treated like the terrorists they truly are)

[Apocalipstic]

Originally Posted by Dylan

And why is it we all weren't aware from the beginning what McViegh's religion was? Why is it the media never shouted out, "OMG, We're Under Attack From HomeGrown Christians! Run For Your Lives!"

Why is it the media, people, Amuricans, etc NEVER went on some rampage about Catholocism, Christianity, The Bible, etc? And how come NO ONE is up in arms about the fact that there's a church right next to where the Federal Building was, AND there's a church within one block...that's TWOOOOOOOOO churches! The horrah of it all...having churches of the bomber's affiliation RIGHT next to the site! How disrespectful (to whom I don't really know, but bigotry and prejudice [and xtian privilege] doesn't always have to be logical or rational, so...)

But now that I've brought it up...to whom is it 'disrespectful' if there's a Muslim community center or mosque or a Muslim ANYTHING really? WHO is being disrespected? Serious question.


Dylan

Ummm.

Sara Palin?

[Dylan]

Originally Posted by apocalipstic

Sara Palin?

Sara Palin = Christian = Terrorist


Dylan...using the same logic that all X religion-practicers are responsible for the actions of a few of the X religion-practicers

'Cuz lest we forget, Obama's a terrorist too since he's (not) Muslim...oh annnnnnnnnnd is middle name is Hussein...that makes him a terrorist dictator!

[Manul]

Let's not forget:

[Cowboi]

Originally Posted by Manul

Let's not forget:

the Rev. Jerry Fartwell, makes me wanna hurl...........

[dreadgeek]

Originally Posted by Dylan

Sara Palin = Christian = Terrorist


Dylan...using the same logic that all X religion-practicers are responsible for the actions of a few of the X religion-practicers

'Cuz lest we forget, Obama's a terrorist too since he's (not) Muslim...oh annnnnnnnnnd is middle name is Hussein...that makes him a terrorist dictator!

Dylan:

I think you're on to something. I mean, what *better* disguise for an Islamo-fascist, socialist, terrorist dictator what hate the Baby Jesus (tm) than as a Christian President of the United States? I mean, has anyone ever *seen* a picture of Barack Obama and Osama bin Laden in the same room at the same time? No! Coincidence? I think not. Obama is tall. Osama bin Laden is tall. Bin Laden is about 50 and Obama is about 50. So how likely is it that these are two different men? I'd say those chances are 4 billion to 1!
I mean, have you ever seen Obama drive a Chevy? No. Have you ever seen Obama play baseball? No! Have you ever seen Obama eat apple pie? No!

I'd also like to see Obama answer questions about the disappearance of the planet Alderan about a quarter century ago. Darth Vader's voice--done by a black man. Obama--black man. And Grand Moff Tarkin was tall--and again, Obama is tall. Too many coincidences, I think that Obama is probably behind the construction of the first Death Star.

Cheers
Aj
(The sad thing is that there's no parody any of us could post that would even *begin* to sound over-the-top compared to actual Tea Party/Republican rhetoric.)

[Dylan]

Aj,

It's all so crystal clear now! I don't know how I could have missed all of this before

You're sooooo right! I never HAVE seen Obama and bin Laden in the same place at the same time!

Obama's birth year is also 1961...mhmmm, that's right

If we move the numbers around and invert the 6 that makes it 9am 911!


DaVinci Must Have Known Of This!,
Dylan...bets there's a church somewhere near the White House!

[AtLast]

[QUOTE=dreadgeek;160866]Dylan:

I think you're on to something. I mean, what *better* disguise for an Islamo-fascist, socialist, terrorist dictator what hate the Baby Jesus (tm) than as a Christian President of the United States? I mean, has anyone ever *seen* a picture of Barack Obama and Osama bin Laden in the same room at the same time? No! Coincidence? I think not. Obama is tall. Osama bin Laden is tall. Bin Laden is about 50 and Obama is about 50. So how likely is it that these are two different men? I'd say those chances are 4 billion to 1!
I mean, have you ever seen Obama drive a Chevy? No. Have you ever seen Obama play baseball? No! Have you ever seen Obama eat apple pie? No!

I'd also like to see Obama answer questions about the disappearance of the planet Alderan about a quarter century ago. Darth Vader's voice--done by a black man. Obama--black man. And Grand Moff Tarkin was tall--and again, Obama is tall. Too many coincidences, I think that Obama is probably behind the construction of the first Death Star.

Cheers
Aj
(The sad thing is that there's no parody any of us could post that would even *begin* to sound over-the-top compared to actual Tea Party/Republican rhetoric.)[/QUOTE]


Yup! nothing we could formulate that is that over-the-top! Sometimes, I so wish that Obama was not the first African American president.... all of this insanity to weed through at a time in our history when a mind such as his and the ability to think through things and hear others is so needed. Sure, I have some times of disagreement with him, but, I am so thankful to have someone with an actual brain as well as a conscience as president! And a mind that remains hungry for knowledge and seeing what is on the other side.

Although it makes me nuts to think that he very well could end up a one-term president, I honestly believe that what he has accomplished thus far, will make a difference. A little tired of even the left’s lack of acknowledgement of some of the key policies his administration has gotten through. If the left would get going as in 2008, the threat of Obama having to deal with even more NO in Congress and losing more momentum would not be happening. Where are the Yes WE Can supporters?

No matter how I try to understand some of Obama’s methods, I know that there is a piece I and all non-African American people don’t get, and never will. Can’t get in terms of how and why he measures his steps so critically and carefully. We will see something similar when a woman, a Latino, or any other POC is elected as president for the first time.

[dreadgeek]

Dylan:

As I love pointing out (and hate that I live in a world where it is true TO be pointed out):

Each white Christian who performs a given act of violence is *that* white Christian. A singular incident unconnected to anything or anyone else. The KKK is N singular, bad apples, none of whom are connected to one another and all of them coincidentally gathering under the banner of that organization, while at the same time being *completely* isolated from one another.

Every non-white and every non-Christian who performs a given act of violence is ALL of that group, X, and all other members of that group either understand why the action took place and/or is even now walking over their own parents to get in line to be the *next* member of that group X to perform such an act.

No one mentioned McVeigh's religion because he wasn't *really* a Christian--no matter what he might have said about himself and, looked at in the correct frame, wasn't *really* a white man either. We can know this because no Christian or white man could *ever* do the acts that McVeigh did and since we know he performed those acts, we can assume that he was neither white nor Christian. On the other hand, John Lee Malvo (the DC sniper) is all black men and the only reason that, for instance, my father wasn't *also the DC sniper is that he was already deceased by that point and even *then* it might be that all the black men who were already dead rose from the grave in order to queue up to be the next freeway sniper.

I know, I know, it looks like a double-standard but only when viewed in the wrong (read liberal) light. Actually a consistent standard is being applied to all non-whites and non-Christians and a consistent standard is being applied to all white men who are Christians so there's no double-standard! Isn't FOX news logic fun?

Originally Posted by Dylan

And why is it we all weren't aware from the beginning what McViegh's religion was? Why is it the media never shouted out, "OMG, We're Under Attack From HomeGrown Christians! Run For Your Lives!"

Why is it the media, people, Amuricans, etc NEVER went on some rampage about Catholocism, Christianity, The Bible, etc? And how come NO ONE is up in arms about the fact that there's a church right next to where the Federal Building was, AND there's a church within one block...that's TWOOOOOOOOO churches! The horrah of it all...having churches of the bomber's affiliation RIGHT next to the site! How disrespectful (to whom I don't really know, but bigotry and prejudice [and xtian privilege] doesn't always have to be logical or rational, so...)

But now that I've brought it up...to whom is it 'disrespectful' if there's a Muslim community center or mosque or a Muslim ANYTHING really? WHO is being disrespected? Serious question.


Dylan

And how come there was never any (excused) panic after Oklahoma City in which (white) people ran around beating and killing people who 'looked like' the bomber (i.e. militaristic white males with brownish hair worn in a 'high and tight' style...you know, cuz that's what allllllllllllll xtian bombers look like, and they should all be treated like the terrorists they truly are)

[Apocalipstic]

Originally Posted by dreadgeek

Dylan:

As I love pointing out (and hate that I live in a world where it is true TO be pointed out):

Each white Christian who performs a given act of violence is *that* white Christian. A singular incident unconnected to anything or anyone else. The KKK is N singular, bad apples, none of whom are connected to one another and all of them coincidentally gathering under the banner of that organization, while at the same time being *completely* isolated from one another.

Every non-white and every non-Christian who performs a given act of violence is ALL of that group, X, and all other members of that group either understand why the action took place and/or is even now walking over their own parents to get in line to be the *next* member of that group X to perform such an act.

No one mentioned McVeigh's religion because he wasn't *really* a Christian--no matter what he might have said about himself and, looked at in the correct frame, wasn't *really* a white man either. We can know this because no Christian or white man could *ever* do the acts that McVeigh did and since we know he performed those acts, we can assume that he was neither white nor Christian. On the other hand, John Lee Malvo (the DC sniper) is all black men and the only reason that, for instance, my father wasn't *also the DC sniper is that he was already deceased by that point and even *then* it might be that all the black men who were already dead rose from the grave in order to queue up to be the next freeway sniper.

I know, I know, it looks like a double-standard but only when viewed in the wrong (read liberal) light. Actually a consistent standard is being applied to all non-whites and non-Christians and a consistent standard is being applied to all white men who are Christians so there's no double-standard! Isn't FOX news logic fun?

Ohhhhhhhhh, but I saw on a poster that president Obama is the new KKK.

Seriously, I agree that it is maddening that if any one POC acts a certain way then every POC must by default be the same.

Things are so illogically stupid right now....maybe they always have been? but somehow the present always seems stupidest!

[morningstar55]

Hey everyone........ hope no ones mad at me for starting this thread.....
i just heard and read about it this morning on the news and thought it might be a good topic for discussion...... just sayin

[dreadgeek]

From Talkingpointsmemo.com:


"It seems the anti-mosque protesters in California have torn a few pages from the Abu Ghraib field manual. Protesters of a planned mosque and Muslim community center in Riverside, California are calling on locals to come to a rally outside an existing mosque with their pet dogs because, as the protest organizer says, Muslims "hate dogs." "We will not be submissive," the notice proclaimed. "Our voices are going to be heard!" The alert went on to question what its authors described as Islamic beliefs. It suggested that participants sing during the rally because Muslim "women are forbidden to sing." It suggested that rally participants bring dogs because Muslims "hate dogs.""

The idea of preserving a memorial to the people who died at the WTC is a smokescreen and a convenient excuse. This is really about *Muslims* integrating into the community--nothing more, nothing less.

Cheers
Aj

[Soon]

The "Ground Zero Mosque" that we have been and will be hearing so much about is not exactly a mosque, nor is it at Ground Zero. Here's why: you can't see Ground Zero -- the former site of the World Trade Center -- from the future site of the Cordoba House

From 45 Park Place, the former Burlington Coat Factory building that will make way for the Cordoba House, it's two blocks, around a corner, to get to the WTC site. Park Place doesn't lie between the construction site and any mass transit stations, so you would need to go out of your way to have it offend you.


When the new World Trade Center rises, you'll be able to see it from 45 Park Place, because it'll be by far the tallest thing around. The planned Cordoba House will be dwarfed. It certainly won't overlook or overshadow Ground Zero.

Why is the distance between the two sites so important? Simple accuracy, for one. It's frustrating to see so many commentators blithely disregard an obvious, physical problem with the "mosque at Ground Zero" formulation: it's not at Ground Zero.

Clyde Haberman of the New York Times further explains the significance:

There's that "at." For a two-letter word, it packs quite a wallop. It has been tossed around in a manner both cavalier and disingenuous, with an intention by some to inflame passions. Nobody, regardless of political leanings, would tolerate a mosque at ground zero. "Near" is not the same, as anyone who paid attention back in the fourth grade should know.

I understand the journalist's impulse to use the "Ground Zero Mosque" shorthand to instantly remind readers why they should care about the story. Headlines leave out qualifiers like "near" all the time for brevity's sake. But in this case the elision is critical; leaving out the "near" clearly takes sides -- against the "mosque" and against accuracy.

In addition, the building planned for 45 Park Place is a cultural center with a prayer room -- not a single-purpose house of worship for Muslims, which is probably what we should reserve the word "mosque" for. As Haberman also explains, "That it may even be called a mosque is debatable. It is designed as a multi-use complex with a space set aside for prayer -- no minarets, no muezzin calls to prayer blaring onto Park Place."

The 92nd Street Y, on which the Cordoba House is explicitly modeled, has a whole host of Jewish events take place inside of it, but no one calls it a synagogue. There's no good reason why Cordoba House should be misleadingly called a "mosque." I've been guilty of using this word too, in conversation and in writing, but it's inaccurate. Muslims already read the Quran and pray at 45 Park Place, but that does not and will not turn it into a "mosque."

There's one more catch for the opponents of the so-called Ground Zero mosque: by the same logical leap you can call the Cordoba Center a "mosque," you can also call Ground Zero as it already exists a giant, open-air mosque. Muslim prayers are already taking place right on the edge of the construction site, and not for world domination. Families are going there to pray -- for the souls of the dozens of innocent Muslim victims who died on September 11.



http://www.huffingtonpost.com/matt-s..._b_660585.html

[AtLast]

Originally Posted by HowSoonIsNow

The "Ground Zero Mosque" that we have been and will be hearing so much about is not exactly a mosque, nor is it at Ground Zero. Here's why: you can't see Ground Zero -- the former site of the World Trade Center -- from the future site of the Cordoba House

From 45 Park Place, the former Burlington Coat Factory building that will make way for the Cordoba House, it's two blocks, around a corner, to get to the WTC site. Park Place doesn't lie between the construction site and any mass transit stations, so you would need to go out of your way to have it offend you.


When the new World Trade Center rises, you'll be able to see it from 45 Park Place, because it'll be by far the tallest thing around. The planned Cordoba House will be dwarfed. It certainly won't overlook or overshadow Ground Zero.

Why is the distance between the two sites so important? Simple accuracy, for one. It's frustrating to see so many commentators blithely disregard an obvious, physical problem with the "mosque at Ground Zero" formulation: it's not at Ground Zero.

Clyde Haberman of the New York Times further explains the significance:

There's that "at." For a two-letter word, it packs quite a wallop. It has been tossed around in a manner both cavalier and disingenuous, with an intention by some to inflame passions. Nobody, regardless of political leanings, would tolerate a mosque at ground zero. "Near" is not the same, as anyone who paid attention back in the fourth grade should know.

I understand the journalist's impulse to use the "Ground Zero Mosque" shorthand to instantly remind readers why they should care about the story. Headlines leave out qualifiers like "near" all the time for brevity's sake. But in this case the elision is critical; leaving out the "near" clearly takes sides -- against the "mosque" and against accuracy.

In addition, the building planned for 45 Park Place is a cultural center with a prayer room -- not a single-purpose house of worship for Muslims, which is probably what we should reserve the word "mosque" for. As Haberman also explains, "That it may even be called a mosque is debatable. It is designed as a multi-use complex with a space set aside for prayer -- no minarets, no muezzin calls to prayer blaring onto Park Place."

The 92nd Street Y, on which the Cordoba House is explicitly modeled, has a whole host of Jewish events take place inside of it, but no one calls it a synagogue. There's no good reason why Cordoba House should be misleadingly called a "mosque." I've been guilty of using this word too, in conversation and in writing, but it's inaccurate. Muslims already read the Quran and pray at 45 Park Place, but that does not and will not turn it into a "mosque."

There's one more catch for the opponents of the so-called Ground Zero mosque: by the same logical leap you can call the Cordoba Center a "mosque," you can also call Ground Zero as it already exists a giant, open-air mosque. Muslim prayers are already taking place right on the edge of the construction site, and not for world domination. Families are going there to pray -- for the souls of the dozens of innocent Muslim victims who died on September 11.

So, I guess it is some kind of crime for Muslims to pray for their own lost souls? Oh, they are all terrorists, I forgot....



http://www.huffingtonpost.com/matt-s..._b_660585.html

THANK YOU!

[AtLast]

Originally Posted by June

From that article:

Those protesting the California construction site include the pastor of a neighboring Baptist church who recently told the Los Angeles Times he was upset about the construction plan because the mosque and community center will turn the town into "a haven for Islamic extremists."

AJ - Some days, I just want to put you on ignore for making me read this stuff, which causes me to (further) lose hope in the future.

Oh, how I hear you! And everytime Msdemeanor posts her same planet feeling, I am oh, so with her!