Swedish Parents Keep 2-year-old's Gender Secret

[cane]

Originally Posted by Diva

Well.
THIS is intriguing.

On the one hand.....what a gift. To the parents.
Will the child be home-schooled? Because I can see a potential dilemma arise when it's time to visit the loo.

I believe that right now, the parents are living in a smug little world where they have control. It will soon change. If not now, if not kindergarten, then surely by puberty.

And there will be another box of issues.......

It will be interesting to follow.....and I wish the child well. The next one, too.

Diva,

in Sweden you don't have the option to home school your children, we see it as a question of democracy.

and... in swedish schools there are no boys- and girls loos, there are just loos....

[Laerkin]

Honestly, I'm not sure how I feel about this. If the parents are doing this as a way to encourage Pop to explore the world without typical constraints, then I think it's kind of cool (but I think the publicity surrounding the situation will influence Pop in other ways).

If the parents are doing this as a political or social demonstration, then I'd say their heart is in the wrong place.

I agree with the other posts that distinguish between gender and sex. Sex is a very different beast than gender. Gender is fluid, ever changing, flexible, and grows with us as we take on new experiences and meet new people. If the goal is to allow Pop total freedom on this sliding scale, it's a radical but interesting concept. Imagine if all of us were told to try on any gender, situate ourselves in as many places along the gender spectrum as we want, until we find a place that feels like home - and we'll be accepted no matter what? Pretty empowering stuff.

Of course, as an adult it means something very different than it does for a toddler who can't possibly conceptualize these things.

I hope the parents don't go to such extremes that Pop ends up being an outcast within the community.

I do fully support the idea that gender is all about self-expression and self-exploration and it would be a hell of a lot easier to feel good about our gender if people weren't always trying to make us fit into THEIR idea of what we should be.

PS - I think the other story the doctors reference from 1967 is a ridiculous analogy. This is a case of genital mutilation (initially an accident, it sounds like). It's astonishing how prevalent medical genital mutilation is here in the States. Often times, girls born with clitoromegaly are treated with a surgery that cuts off some of the clitoris to make it smaller - leaving them with scar tissue and sometimes compromised sensation - all because a parent was uncomfortable with their daughter having a visible clit. Big fucking deal. Or children born with Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome (AIS) - I've read stories of AIS cases when the parents choose a sex for their child by having part of their reproductive organs removed and later the child wants nothing more than to have had the choice. This is all very different from the case of Pop and Pop's parents. I think it's speaks volumes about the assumptions that these doctors are making when they compare flexible gender expression with something like non-consensual medical genital alterations or AIS individuals.

[Soon]

Originally Posted by cane

Diva,

in Sweden you don't have the option to home school your children, we see it as a question of democracy.

and... in swedish schools there are no boys- and girls loos, there are just loos....

Cane,

I know this is off topic, but could please explain why the option of home schooling is a question of democracy? (I agree, btw)

I am Canadian and feel that most of our educational system is very similar to Sweden's. We have great schools, in every district--there is equal funding across all districts for all schools and more for those who need the most help--most people do not home school nor are there Charter schools (except in Alberta). I don't know one person who has been home schooled either but I know that it does exist--I mean, there is a program for that.

As a Canadian teacher, I find the school system in the USA very unfair to those who live in a disadvantaged area and monies are directed toward those neighbourhoods where there are *good schools* with *well-off people* (and property taxes pay more for their *better schools* and they feel they deserve them!).

This, from I have observed, just solidifies the inequities in the educational system where gov't monies are sometimes given to those schools who achieve high scores on mandated tests. In Canada, those districts who have perhaps underprivileged students or issues with English not being their first language get MORE money. No one that I have ever met in Canada chooses to live in an area b/c of *good schools*; all teachers get paid very similarly across the country as well.

Ok, I went off on a tangent! My main question is to explain to others why home schooling, in Sweden, falls under a question of democracy.

[cane]

Originally Posted by HowSoonIsNow

Cane,

I know this is off topic, but could please explain why the option of home schooling is a question of democracy? (I agree, btw)

I am Canadian and feel that most of our educational system is very similar to Sweden's. We have great schools, in every district--there is equal funding across all districts for all schools and more for those who need the most help--most people do not home school nor are there Charter schools (except in Alberta). I don't know one person who has been home schooled either but I know that it does exist--I mean, there is a program for that.

As a Canadian teacher, I find the school system in the USA very unfair to those who live in a disadvantaged area and monies are directed toward those neighbourhoods where there are *good schools* with *well-off people* (and property taxes pay more for their *better schools* and they feel they deserve them!).

This, from I have observed, just solidifies the inequities in the educational system where gov't monies are sometimes given to those schools who achieve high scores on mandated tests. In Canada, those districts who have perhaps underprivileged students or issues with English not being their first language get MORE money. No one that I have ever met in Canada chooses to live in an area b/c of *good schools*; all teachers get paid very similarly across the country as well.

Ok, I went off on a tangent! My main question is to explain to others why home schooling, in Sweden, falls under a question of democracy.

How Soon Is Now,

it's a question of democracy based on the idea that everyone has the right to the same education.

Maybe some parents are great teachers but that doesn't go for all. Also, in our (I mean teachers) work, helping the child in the socialization process is an important part. Learning how to interact with peers, learning the rules of society. This is harder to achive when going to school at home, with a parent as teacher and no peers around.
Finally, I had five years of university studies to be able to call myself a teacher. Is it possible that I didn't learn anything of value during that time, if anyone without a degree can do my job just as well, it must be.

So, to go back to where I started, everyone has the right to the same education, a good education, involving qualified teachers, this to result in confident upstanding people, with enough knowledge to be able to live their lives and take care of themselves. And also in the end, be able to run our country (vote with knowledge).
That is democracy - people that are not subject to ignorance and that drives our country forward.

(Sorry for my bad english - I am swedish as you probably understand)

[cane]

....and when speaking of the same education, everyone gets the same in sweden, the same medical care, the same dental care, the same schooling, the same senior citizen care, the same wellfare (should they need it) and so on... Should you want someting different that is of course your choice, but then you would have to pay for it yourself. Otherwise, all these things are free in Sweden and everyone has the same rights.
(Off the topic I know...)

[suebee]

Heard today while I was shopping: Mother getting shopping cart with 18 month-old baby:
"You're okay. You don't have to cry anymore." WARM
"You're a big boy. Big boys don't cry." COLDER
"C'mon now! You're a man! Men don't cry!" COLD! COLD! COLD!
All this within about 45 seconds. The poor little guy. I sure as hell hope for his sake he turns out to be a rough and tough kid!

[NJFemmie]

I'm not sure how I feel about it. I voted undecided, but more accurately I feel indifferent - I pretty much feel that it isn't so damaging.

My mom of course told me I was a girl - or at the very least, it was already known to me (duh), but growing up, my parents (more so my mother than father), didn't attach gender labels to anything. I wasn't told that this was for boys, or that should be for girls -- I was virtually free from gender assignments. I consider that a blessing - it gave me the opportunity to really define myself without gender influence.

Now granted, I was disappointed when I discovered I couldn't effectively pee standing up, but it didn't damage me. I dealt with it.

... and I've always said that if I were to ever have children - they would be raised the same way my mother raised me. I would want my child to gravitate toward what she/he feels most comfortable.

[Toughy]

Originally Posted by cane

Diva,

in Sweden you don't have the option to home school your children, we see it as a question of democracy.

and... in swedish schools there are no boys- and girls loos, there are just loos....

I am a fan of 'stalls' and 'urinals' as to the type of restrooms needed for group settings.

I find it fascinating that most of the experts have no vision of a truly different society. You will hurt the poor little babies because this IS the way the world IS.

If you want to change the paradigm, then stop answering questions about sex and gender. Do what these parents are doing. Why does girl or boy matter? If we are ever going to shed the blanket of the patriarchy, then we must take that first step.

Changing the paradigm requires action. How do you actually CHANGE the way kids are brought up? You do that by actually doing what this story talks about.

How about if an entire small town raised up a bunch of kids who didn't care about day to day drag (the clothes you put on)? There is no boys do and wear these things. Girls wear and do these things. Boys cry when they are hurt and girls do too.
================

There was a thread about this same thing several years ago at the dash site. I'm wondering if this is another viral story moving across the net. It doesn't matter as it'a subject worth talking about. I believe the child's name was X. X does not mean boy or girl. X is required for male, female, intersexed.