Were you adopted in a closed adoption?

[Apocalipstic]

Originally Posted by bigbutchmistie

Apocalipstic my adopted parents are Fundamental Independent Baptist Preachers LOL I spent summers as a teen with missionaries in Mexico

Wow, I totally get the irony that you parents were preachers and missionaries, yet they shipped you out when things got rough. There was so mucg hypocrisy in my home growing up too. Hey, at least we got to travel, right .

Originally Posted by christie0918

Jen -

I totally hear what you are saying in regard to the objectivity of an uninvolved third party with a similar experience. If my birth mother was more open, I would have us all meet for lunch or something; alas, in the 16 years I have known her, we have had ONE conversation about her giving me up. One.

Most of my information has come from my sister. Apparently, it was a decision that was made FOR her as she was 17.

In my resolution process, I always remembered a couple of things that I think are relevant even to your situation.

1970 was a different time (the year I was born). Choices for women in regard to their bodies and decisions were very limited. Even more so in the 60's when you were born. Educational opportunities were very limited. Most women who attended college were majoring in BM degrees - Before Marriage. Abortion wasn't legal until 1973 so access to the backalley abortions was not just expensive, it required a great amount of strength in overcoming the fears.

Birth control options were even more limited. The modern birth control pill wasn't introduced until 1960 and even then, most physicians wouldn't prescribe it unless the woman's husband agreed. If a husband said no, she had no choice. My motherinlaw's physician wanted to perform a hysterectomy for her after my brotherinlaw was born in the late 60's for her health. Jess's father would not give his "permission" and she was left with no choice but to have her health compromised.

Women weren't nearly as empowered as we are today. We have endless opportunities for us, even if its still that we work harder for less money and hope we dont land in a place with a glass ceiling. We have proven that we are independent, intelligent, singularly sensational entities without being in the "protective mantle of males." We have choices.

My maternal grandfather was a deacon in a southern baptist church. He was also a prominent businessman in Memphis. The shame of his daughter being pregnant out of wedlock was just not acceptable. She was sent to live with my great-aunt in Florida. Aunt Mary could not have children and begged and pleaded with B to give me to her. B was so very distraught she called her father every day to please let her come home. He finally relented and brought her back to Memphis and placed her in the Baptist Unwed Mothers Home.

What she endured there must have been unimaginable. To this day, she will drive 30 mins out of the way to even avoid driving down the same street as the Home. She has never spoken of her experience there; but she doesn't have to - its apparent enough to me.

Being forced to give me up certainly qualifies her in my mind as a PTSD candidate. It was so traumatic for her, she literally could not remember my birthdate - she knew it was one of three days.

She hasn't ever really dealt with her own issues surrounding my adoption. She probably never will. My only wish is that she has peace about it and knows that I hold no ill will towards her.

Most of you know that I have a 16 yr old son. When I found myself an "unwed mother" at 22 (that in itself is another thread on "issues" unto itself! LOL) I was faced with my choices... I could abort... I could give the baby up for adoption or I could keep him and make it work. I had options - options I feel that a lot of birth mothers never have. I made the decision I could best live with and never looked back.

Today, Bratboy's favorite game is to see just how quickly he can annoy the hell out of me with, "Mom. Mom. Mom. Mom. Mom.Mom.Mom.Mom," all the while tapping me on the arm... I think he times it.

Would he have been better off with a two parent home of lovely heterosexual parents who didn't have to work 60hr weeks when he was an infant just to keep him in diapers and formula? Maybe. I would like to think that I have given him as good, if not a better life than that imaginary couple could have. I dunno... but I do know that I wouldn't nearly be the person I am today.

I like to think that my birth mother made the decision she could best live with - given that she really didnt have a decision in it, I like to give her that power in my head... and to think that if she had been of my generation, she would have had the empowerment to believe she could have made a life for me.

Just my take on what it might have been like to try and be in their shoes.

Christie

Christie, thank you for taking the time to discuss this with me. You seem so centered about it all.

I am so glad and proud of you for keeping your son!

I know her parents put pressure on her to give me up and also sent her to a home in Oklahoma City to have me. She said it was run by Methodist "nuns"? (I guess nun-like women?) I know it had to be terrible.

I know I am holding anger like a little kid over this, I just have never even really thought to deal with it, I always had more pressing issues (like my insane Father). Now that he is gone, maybe I can get all this behind me.

Originally Posted by Dean Thoreau

My grandaughter and I are the only birth children in the family. My wife, and all of our children are adopted.
I met several of my children's biological parents prior to my adoption of my children. My children were not the secret love children of famous actors and actresses, nor are they the missing heirs of the Kings and Queens. My children's birth parents were like every other birth parent in the entire world. Birth parents that had to make some very difficult choices.
Whether you were placed for adoption at birth or the age of 15; whether you were placed for adoption due to.................... or ..................... Several things ocurred:

1. You the birth child did not do anything wrong.
2. Your birth mother chose to give you life.
3. Your birth parents loved you so much they gave you up with the hope and dream that you would have a loving forever family. Whether they did so by signing a piece of paper, by court removal or by walking away or all of the above they made that choice not out of hate, or selfishness, or because you were to troublesome or because they didnt love you. They made that choice (spoken or unspoken) because they did love you so much that deep down in side they knew they could not properly care for themselves much less a child or another child. This decision is the most difficult decision a person faces in their entire life and it is one that no matter what is done, is second guessed for a lifetime.

Birth parents that you meet in adulthood may or may not ever tell you of the reasons because when the words are spoken 20 years later they sound kind of lame. A birth mother looks at you and says I couldnt take care of myself,,how could i care for an infant? and an adoptive childs inner feelings are not understanding but rather.....wtf....you are here now....obviously you survived...
What is not looked at is.....had the birth mother not have made the choice she did,,,there is a high possibility that neither of you would have survived.

Every person that has been placed for adoption is there for the same reason, your birth parents at that time were not capable of caring for themselves much less for an infant, a child. And they loved you enough that either by their consent or their actions you were placed with the hopes of a better environment for you to be nurtured and loved.

I get what you are saying and I so admire you for what you are doing!

It is hard for me to see that they gave me away out of love, becasue of the incredibly abusive situation I ended up in, but I am working on it and hearing from people like you and Christie really is helping.

Thank you both!

[bigbutchmistie]

YES soooooo much hypocrisy And yes sooooo glad for the travels and experiences I had. Its part of why I am who I am today. I've seen things few people in U.S. Ever do... As I'm sure so have you

[Apocalipstic]

Originally Posted by bigbutchmistie

YES soooooo much hypocrisy And yes sooooo glad for the travels and experiences I had. Its part of why I am who I am today. I've seen things few people in U.S. Ever do... As I'm sure so have you

Very true!

I am guessing you speak English and Spanish fluently?

There are good parts, but just always this feeling of not belonging anywhere. Always on the outside, always the new kid.

[NotAnAverageGuy]

Honestly, to me, giving away your kids because you can't take care of them properly IS NOT love of any form, it's called being stupid and selfish. I am grateful I am here but at times no due to the amount of anger that boils in my bones about the reasons why so many birthparents do what they do.

It kinda goes back to the post where I said some people need to be sterilized and castrated, both my birth parents should have had this happen, than maybe myself and my siblings wouldn't be so fucked up like we are. I hold alot of resentment and animosity towards my birth mother and some to my father, if you don't wanna be a parent don't be a fucktard, wear a rubber or use some form of protection.

IMO closed adoptions have done more harm than good.

[Apocalipstic]

Originally Posted by NotAnAverageGuy

Honestly, to me, giving away your kids because you can't take care of them properly IS NOT love of any form, it's called being stupid and selfish. I am grateful I am here but at times no due to the amount of anger that boils in my bones about the reasons why so many birthparents do what they do.

It kinda goes back to the post where I said some people need to be sterilized and castrated, both my birth parents should have had this happen, than maybe myself and my siblings wouldn't be so fucked up like we are. I hold alot of resentment and animosity towards my birth mother and some to my father, if you don't wanna be a parent don't be a fucktard, wear a rubber or use some form of protection.

IMO closed adoptions have done more harm than good.

I think a more open scenario where the child knows where they come from and has some sense of heritage is best.

Those of us from closed adoptions have no clue what our past is, no sense of clan, or familial ties.

I get that in 1963 things were bad for women, but when I finally did meet her she told me her parents said she had to give me up if she wanted to go to the prom. They she married someone else shortly after and had 2 kids. She has a master's degree. In my case it was a convenience thing, not a survival thing.

I do know that still the rhetoric is that to say that parents gave us up out of love and should be happy and thankful and beholden for being adopted out of misery. I have heard it all my life.

I think I am angry at society in general for believing that children are disposable and will forget and can be given away when they are at their most defenceless to who knows what. Having sex is a natural thing, and I wish I lived in a world where children are treasured and not looked down on for being illegitimate. Its just insane to me that this is how society works.

[NotAnAverageGuy]

[QUOTE=apocalipstic;22864]I think a more open scenario where the child knows where they come from and has some sense of heritage is best.

Those of us from closed adoptions have no clue what our past is, no sense of clan, or familial ties.

I get that in 1963 things were bad for women, but when I finally did meet her she told me her parents said she had to give me up if she wanted to go to the prom. They she married someone else shortly after and had 2 kids. She has a master's degree. In my case it was a convenience thing, not a survival thing.

I do know that still the rhetoric is that to say that parents gave us up out of love and should be happy and thankful and beholden for being adopted out of misery. I have heard it all my life.

I think I am angry at society in general for believing that children are disposable and will forget and can be given away when they are at their most defenceless to who knows what. Having sex is a natural thing, and I wish I lived in a world where children are treasured and not looked down on for being illegitimate. Its just insane to me that this is how society works.[/QUOTE]

[NotAnAverageGuy]

Originally Posted by apocalipstic

I think a more open scenario where the child knows where they come from and has some sense of heritage is best.

Those of us from closed adoptions have no clue what our past is, no sense of clan, or familial ties.

I get that in 1963 things were bad for women, but when I finally did meet her she told me her parents said she had to give me up if she wanted to go to the prom. They she married someone else shortly after and had 2 kids. She has a master's degree. In my case it was a convenience thing, not a survival thing.

I do know that still the rhetoric is that to say that parents gave us up out of love and should be happy and thankful and beholden for being adopted out of misery. I have heard it all my life.

I think I am angry at society in general for believing that children are disposable and will forget and can be given away when they are at their most defenceless to who knows what. Having sex is a natural thing, and I wish I lived in a world where children are treasured and not looked down on for being illegitimate. Its just insane to me that this is how society works.

That too is a thorn in my side, thinking kids are disposable as well as animals.

Society sucks and always has

[Apocalipstic]

Originally Posted by NotAnAverageGuy

That too is a thorn in my side, thinking kids are disposable as well as animals.

Society sucks and always has

Yeah animals too. People need to get their pets FIXED.

It makes me furious that when someone is pregnant STILL, the answer people give is ohh don't have an abortion, have the baby and put it up for adoption. People need to know that they are placing a defenceless child in danger.

Yes, some babies end up in good homes, but so many end up on death row or commit suicide, or even kill their adoptive parents. Is it worth it?

Use birth control.

[NotAnAverageGuy]

Originally Posted by apocalipstic

Yeah animals too. People need to get their pets FIXED.

It makes me furious that when someone is pregnant STILL, the answer people give is ohh don't have an abortion, have the baby and put it up for adoption. People need to know that they are placing a defenceless child in danger.

Yes, some babies end up in good homes, but so many end up on death row or commit suicide, or even kill their adoptive parents. Is it worth it?

Use birth control.

Agreed get your damn pets fixed... sheesh it don't take much to get them fixed... humans on the other hand you have to have a valid reason to get them fixed.

I recall a story about an adoptive girl who killed her adopted mother over a boyfriend at school. WTF.

People should think with their heads when it comes to having kids, why do you think I have never had kids?

[Apocalipstic]

Originally Posted by NotAnAverageGuy

Agreed get your damn pets fixed... sheesh it don't take much to get them fixed... humans on the other hand you have to have a valid reason to get them fixed.

I recall a story about an adoptive girl who killed her adopted mother over a boyfriend at school. WTF.

People should think with their heads when it comes to having kids, why do you think I have never had kids?

I never really wanted to have kids either.

I read that a huge percentage of people who kill both parents are adopted. They don't want parents looking to adopt to know this stuff.

[NotAnAverageGuy]

Originally Posted by apocalipstic

I never really wanted to have kids either.

I read that a huge percentage of people who kill both parents are adopted. They don't want parents looking to adopt to know this stuff.

I never had kids because I am not fond of children, granted I love my nieces and nephews but to send them home all spoiled and have my siblings mad at me is way better than having one of my own on my coat tails 24/7.



Yes there is a big percentage of adopted people who are killers, etc. I think Superfemme posted about that on another page.

[Dean Thoreau]

My son john was removed from his birth parents when he was 11 months old...for severe neglect and abuse...he weighed less at 11 months of age then when he was born....

He was hsopitalized then placed in a foster home......with 11 other children...when he turned 2 he was still very sickly and a doctor thought...he would test him for HIV....sure enough he was positive....
he was then removed from the foster home and placed with me for adoption. at the age of 2 3/4..

at the age of 7 he died....

I had the opportunity to meet john's birth parents at the funeral home.....(I had asked my adoption agency to notify the birth parents that he had died and said they could come to the funeral home if they desired..they were both incarcerated..so special arrangements were made and i decided i wanted to meet these horrible horrendous people..that gave john AIDs, that abused him,,,that starved him..did all those things...that ended up resulting in his very premature death....


I was not exactly sure what I was going to do when i saw them...prison guards and police there or not...in my mind i planned on ripping them to shreds....verbally, physically and shaking them till i got a answer out of them that explained WHY.....How...WHY...and after i got the answers i figured i would just rip them from limb to limb ....

Well in walked two tiny frail people,with handcuffs on...,who were very scared..who were both obviously not well, the guards etc allowed them to come into the room where john's body casket was...and gave us some privacy...

these two people who i hated, despised desired to just rip apart with my bare hands were in the same room as i...
they looked at me...i motioned ot them the direction of johns casket and they walked over knelt down and with handcuffs blessed themselves and viewed their birth child..... spent a few moments and then his birth mom came over to me and said...

"Im sorry your son died."

I was a bit taken back by the comment...the birth father came over and said the same thing.
then the three of us sat down and talked. for a while...
i did not kill them
i did not beat them
and after that day i could not hate them...

There are some things that will never have answers.....because the people involved truly do not know the answers....no I did not ask them Why did u abuse him.....and neither fo them offered an explanation because is there any explanation other then SICKNESS ....that would explain it....

There is nothing an 11 month old child could do to deserve abuse, starvation....so there is no answer why......other than sickness..not physcical sickness but severe emotional illness..



I did forgive them
I also thank them because yes I thanked them.... due to their carelessness and unhealthy habits they contracted a disease that was passed on to john in utero....
yes they did a horrible thing from the time he was born until he was 11 months old.....

But, in selfishness I must say..Thank You....my life was changed by the fact that he came into my life.
My life was touched in such a remarkable way by those almost 5 years that he lived on this earth and called me mom.
My heart became fuller and I shall never forget or stop missing my son john... did his birth parents love him....yes...they did....could they care for themselves or him NO they could not...
were they capable of caring for themselves or him when he was removed..no they were not...
it was not because they had aids it is and was because they were SICK...they had numerous sicknesses AIDS was the least of them;
they had the sickness of addiciton, the sickness of emotinal instability, the sickeness of poverty, the sickeness of inability to disern right from wrong...the sickness of the inability to control their own behavior....
Those things require a great deal of medical attention...and those sicknesses do not allow one to be capable of caring for a baby or a child.

See where everyone gets hung up is on the " love" isuue.

love exists..it is the sicknesses that clouds the love from being seen.

When you say a woman takes the "easy" way out when a child is placed for adoption....if that is how you convince yourself and contend with the anger you have regarding your birth parent.

It is ok to be angry at them for...choosing to give you life.....
but please remember you deserve to be alive!

It is ok to be angry at them for abusing you,....
but please remember you deserved and still deserve to be free of abuse.

It is ok to be angry at them cause you question their love...
but please remember you deserved and do deserve to be loved.

it is ok to feel anyway you need to feel and do feel...
but please remember you deserve the right not to use that as an excuse to not be the best person you can possibly be!

[christie]

I get being angry at how society sees children as disposable... I think as a whole we tend to see most things as disposable... everything from kleenex to relationships.

I understand how comfortable it can be to live with that anger just below the surface, as your driving force. I know how scary it is to start to let go of that anger and learn to live without it. Its easy to start the process and then slip back into the anger.

I spent many, many years of my son's early life being angry at his father for his lack of parenting... emotionally, or financially.

My bio sister's husband made a very profound statement to me once while I was visiting them in Memphis. My sister was in a complete tailspin about Bratboy's father and we were like two vultures picking at the remains of his character. Fueled by Jim Beam, we had been feasting on the anger for hours. This very humble man from Mississippi who is as quiet as can be looked at us when we paused to take a breath and said, "Do ya'll think that S (my son's father) really gives a shit that you are angry? Do you think he is losing sleep over it? Do you think he has just spent the last two hours wailing about how sorry he is you are angry?"

Fuck. At that moment, I KNEW just how right my dear brotherinlaw was... S didn't give a shit... the only person I was affecting was ME by carrying all that bitterness around. I was the one losing sleep and shooting my BP up...

I'm not saying that anyone is wrong in their anger. Its a perfectly valid feeling and each person has the absolute right to feel that way.

What I am saying is that usually the person/persons we are angry at could give less than a shit that we are angry... WE are the only ones who care...

I once heard someone say, "Its not a fear of failure that keeps us from trying... its the fear of success." I think that's pretty smart. I've never been afraid to fail... but what the hell do I do after I succeed?? I think its a whole lot easier to be angry and negative than to make peace with something this profound and to move forward, positive, hopeful and into the light.

For me, I'd rather risk success. I'd rather not participate in what I call nonconsensual energy exchange... I'd rather impose my sometimes annoying positive demeanor on someone than to draw them into the negativity they've not asked for...

Christie

[Apocalipstic]

I am actually pretty successful and really did not realize I was upset about this until last week.

So I am not really wallowing in my anger nor ignoring my life. I have a great life...however, my great life involves PTSD and some other health issues that are tied to early trauma when I was too young to make decisions for myself.

I know no one gives a shit about my pain really (or anyone else's). I totally get that.

Would it be better if I did not discuss here? Is it drawing people into a subject best left alone?

But then its back to secrets and lies.

[christie]

Jen - I hope you dont think that I was saying that this isnt a place to discuss this or any other issue one might have... You mentioned that I seemed centered around my adoption issues and I was just putting out there what my experiences to this point have been in coming to that centered place.

Its a LOT of work... hard... and I would hope that you know that I am not dismissing nor trivializing your pain. If anything, I would rather wrap you in a hug and tell you that I understand just how deep the hurt is... just how dumbfounding it can be to try and understand how birth parents could inflict this pain and then carry on with their lives as if they never gave us another thought.

Please don't stop posting on this thread. Jess was just telling me last night how touching its been for hym to read my experiences here - we've never really spoken in detail about my being adopted... it just never really came up.

I've probably been more personal about very intimate details of that part of me here than I ever have on any other thread. For the first time, it didnt feel too vulnerable to put details of all that compile Christie out there to the general virtual public.

I think that if we can find some sliver of something that resonates with us from sharing our experiences, its worth it...

I'm sorry that my words weren't taken as I had intended. It certainly wasn't my intent to silence you.

Christie

[Apocalipstic]

Originally Posted by christie0918

Jen - I hope you dont think that I was saying that this isnt a place to discuss this or any other issue one might have... You mentioned that I seemed centered around my adoption issues and I was just putting out there what my experiences to this point have been in coming to that centered place.

Its a LOT of work... hard... and I would hope that you know that I am not dismissing nor trivializing your pain. If anything, I would rather wrap you in a hug and tell you that I understand just how deep the hurt is... just how dumbfounding it can be to try and understand how birth parents could inflict this pain and then carry on with their lives as if they never gave us another thought.

Please don't stop posting on this thread. Jess was just telling me last night how touching its been for hym to read my experiences here - we've never really spoken in detail about my being adopted... it just never really came up.

I've probably been more personal about very intimate details of that part of me here than I ever have on any other thread. For the first time, it didnt feel too vulnerable to put details of all that compile Christie out there to the general virtual public.

I think that if we can find some sliver of something that resonates with us from sharing our experiences, its worth it...

I'm sorry that my words weren't taken as I had intended. It certainly wasn't my intent to silence you.

Christie

Thank you for your quick response! a hug would rock!

I think my Dad's death has me thinking about all sorts of things I have pushed down over the years. I was focusing on work and life and just did not have time of desire to dig all this up. Now it's affecting my health so I need to take care of it.

I totally get what you and Dean are saying about not making excuses for myself beacsue this happened, and I don't. I do think that things ignored weigh on our health and it's good to process it.

Thank you so much for sharing what you have and everyone else for sharing what they have too.

I remember before I met my bio-parents I looked at people when I walked down the street and wondered "is she my mother?", kind of like in that DR. Seuss book. Now I have met her and though I wish she had been sorry I have to look at the situation she was in. I was still a total kid when I was 17 and have no idea what I woud have done if I had been pregnant. I was frightened to death of my father, and would have done anything to keep him from finding out. Luckily I am not into sleeping with men.

I know it is really easy for me to say that I would not put a kid up for adoption. It is pretty damn unlikely that I would have ever gotten pregant. laugh. (picturing really corroded star in the East)

Our society is so incredibly judgemental, it really freaks me out.

[bigbutchmistie]

Originally Posted by apocalipstic

Very true!

I am guessing you speak English and Spanish fluently?

There are good parts, but just always this feeling of not belonging anywhere. Always on the outside, always the new kid.

Actually I dont speak Spanish fluently. I understand some. Just dont speak it. We had to let the missionaries talk to the people. Weird. I know.

As far as having kids. Ya know, I never have wanted to have them. And in dating it sooo hard to find a girly girl who doesnt want them either. Oh well. I know there has still gotta be a single femme out there who doesnt want them

[bigbutchmistie]

I never got a chance to ask my mom when she was living why my brother and I were adopted together. I know what my grandmother told me before she passed. She said that my mom was in an abusive relationship with my father and agreed to have her rights taken away with my father's if my brother and I could be adopted. Neither set of grandparents would raise us. So we were adopted together. I know we lived in foster homes together for years and came across the couple who were the ones to introduce us to our adopted parents.

I loved those people like they were my parents. Growing up I was refused contact with them. We saw them once in a while years would go by. When I was 18 and I moved up here to meet my real parents the original foster parents played a role in it.

It was very emotional. My father is still the same piece of shit he was when I was little. However my mom and I developed a really close relationship.
While my brother was still living at home with my adopted parents he wasnt allowed to see me or talk to me. Since I was told I was never welcome. He wasnt allowed to have any contact with me while he was under their roof. It tore me up. He and I were really close growing up. I watched my biological mom cry on a daily basis because she felt she made a mistake. One she could never take back.

I know she used to say when she had gotten her life together soon after we were adopted she became a cop because she wanted to search for my brother and I and find us and kidnap us back LOL and no one would have ever found us.

I watched her emotional agony and never really understood how much she hurt over that. I know that the day we were taken away finally by the state she was in the kitchen with her mom my grandmother who had a brain anurism and died instantly.

I have always admired her strength. To lose your kids and your mom in the same day. Most people would be locked away for the rest of their lives. My mom has said she kicked in survival mode at that point. She left my abusive father was a cop and the last few years of her life owned her own beauty salon.

I know in her heart she felt she didnt do the right thing giving up custody. She always would say if she had to do it again. She'd left my father and done whatever it took to raise a family. Up until the day she died she apologized to me she felt she couldnt forgive herself.

I was young enough that growing up I didnt remember her and as I explained before the only time I heard about her was to be told I would amount to nothing but trash like her.

When I met her it was hard on us at first. We didnt have a relationship. We fought and argued and I blamed her for all the abuse I encountered daily with the adopted parents. It wasnt until close to her death that we obtained a really close relationship. And it was an ex that helped me do it.

I guess the thing that I have never really understood is how I still feel close to the foster parents that I had before I was adopted. My name sake.
We are building a close relationship and recently came out to them and they were accepting. And they have the pics of me when I was little. And laugh and tell me about things that I did. Just like a mom or dad would.

What a difference 30 years makes. I dont feel sorry for myself because of all I had to endure. It has made me the person I am today and the better person I will be in the future.

[Greyson]

Originally Posted by apocalipstic

You have to have a licence to fish, but anyone can have a baby.

Crazy isn't it?

Tell me about it. I have often thought the same thought or similar. And so many are afraid that the Queers are going to destroy the children? I am not adopted but one of my ex girlfriends and now a very good friend/family she is adopted. I have seen her struggle for years not knowing. Thank you to all of you for sharing your stories with us.

[NotAnAverageGuy]

On the topic of good and bad genes...

anyone think they got the bad genes?