Stone Butches

[diamondrose]

Originally Posted by CherylNYC

Yeah, sort of. Of course I get your drift, but I'm always a little uncomfortable when anyone defines me by who I date. I'm a stonefemme because of my own personal boundaries. I'm not defined by those I date. I've known femmes who are far from stone, but find themselves dating stone butches. I'm a stonefemme who has dated butches who are not stone, (insert sad face here).

Well said. I agree and relate to this. I am who I am, a stone femme, because of my personal preferences and limitations.

[rlin]

i hope that my posts didnt put any negative energy against being stone...
there is nothing farther from the truth in my head...

i just dont want to embrace this until i know for sure that i am not reacting to some kind of outside influences or levels of comfort... or preferences of a lover even...

i just want to be me... whoever that is... truly...

[Legendryder]

We define ourselves my friend. Keep an open mind and find your own comfort zone. It will all work out exactly the way it should.

[Glenn]

Yeh..I agree. Be whatever makes you feel happy and what works for you. I like what you said about being Stone with the Tantric thing going on.

[DomnNC]

Lordy, I never knew there were so many labels applied to people til I joined here, lol. I'm not saying that's a bad thing at all either. I've always known since I was in the first grade that I was in the wrong body, I am a man, pure and simple, always have been. No, I've not taken T, not thought about it for my own personal reasons, the biggest one being that I would not put my parents thru that, as I am the only, coughs, sex of this being, that they have. I have 3 brothers as well, all younger than me. My family accepts me just fine being the way I am. When my wife passed away I could not have asked for better support from my parents or my brothers and their spouses, they were all just as devastated by her passing as I was as they all loved her tremendously.
Two of my brothers know what a kinky fuck I am and are fine with it and kid me about it. They used to tease my wife when we'd come down to visit to get a reaction out of her and then tell me she deserved a spanking when we got back home, chuckles.
I just don't go for all the labels, I am not defined by a label or what anyone else chooses to attempt to box me into. I define me! I am me, plain and simple. I choose how I will relate to someone in a relationship by their energy dynamic with me.

So Rlin, don't worry about labels, they really mean nothing. It is how you see yourself that matters. It is how you interact with your partner and how ya'll see yourself as a couple that matters, all other opinions be damned.

[southernboi63]

I have to agreee with you DomnNC. I define myself as Stone but as I have read I find myself as being confussed. For myself, when I am with that special woman, When we are tgether in the bedroom, I get off by getting her off by me penertrating her. I like being touched but not penertation at all, I feel as if I were born in the wrong body, I wear mens clothing, boxers, eveything....I pack all the time so what would you classify me if not a stoner... the only thing I see if anything would be the touching... I need help//\\

[Dutch Leonard]

Originally Posted by southernboi63

I have to agreee with you DomnNC. I define myself as Stone but as I have read I find myself as being confussed. For myself, when I am with that special woman, When we are tgether in the bedroom, I get off by getting her off by me penertrating her. I like being touched but not penertation at all, I feel as if I were born in the wrong body, I wear mens clothing, boxers, eveything....I pack all the time so what would you classify me if not a stoner... the only thing I see if anything would be the touching... I need help//\\

It doesn't look like you need help to me, some are so stone they allow no touching some just don't want the penetration. You are the boss of how it works. I don't think you are confused.

[asphaltcowboi]

Originally Posted by southernboi63

I have to agreee with you DomnNC. I define myself as Stone but as I have read I find myself as being confussed. For myself, when I am with that special woman, When we are tgether in the bedroom, I get off by getting her off by me penertrating her. I like being touched but not penertation at all, I feel as if I were born in the wrong body, I wear mens clothing, boxers, eveything....I pack all the time so what would you classify me if not a stoner... the only thing I see if anything would be the touching... I need help//\\

im stone and am very close to the same.. i dont think your confused.. i do think we all have our personal aganda sexualy. some of us (me) do not allow touch below the belt other than my butch cock. i expect to be treated as if that was what i was born with.. lol now maybe im confused? am i t/g? im confertable with the stone lable so that is what i wear. i feel male but reconize that im female. i dont want to become male. i do not want to lose touch with my female side because i believe __for me__ it is what allows me to feel the way i do with a woman..

[Electrocell]

Originally Posted by southernboi63

I have to agreee with you DomnNC. I define myself as Stone but as I have read I find myself as being confussed. For myself, when I am with that special woman, When we are tgether in the bedroom, I get off by getting her off by me penertrating her. I like being touched but not penertation at all, I feel as if I were born in the wrong body, I wear mens clothing, boxers, eveything....I pack all the time so what would you classify me if not a stoner... the only thing I see if anything would be the touching... I need help//\\

Sounds to me like you are a Transgendered stonebutch. I too feel like I was born in the wrong body. Wouldn't mind having my breast removed but until they perfect the other part of the ftm operation wouldn't consider that part of it. I want to still want to beable to have an orgasm. There are all different types of stonebutches and butches.

[Random]

Originally Posted by rlin

i hope that my posts didnt put any negative energy against being stone...
there is nothing farther from the truth in my head...

i just dont want to embrace this until i know for sure that i am not reacting to some kind of outside influences or levels of comfort... or preferences of a lover even...

i just want to be me... whoever that is... truly...

I've kept from chiming in because I'm not butch...and I'm only semi stone... grin... soft stone if you would have it...

But...

A lover once told me that it was about feeling safe... and trust...

He said... The more I trust, the safer I feel, the more clothes come off...

He said... for a woman to get into his boxers, meant that that he trusted and he felt safe exposing the part of him that didn't match his inside view... (He was/is GID)

If he was feeling emotionally unsafe or the trust wasn't there, then the boxers and the a-line were NOT coming off..

If you've had a bad break up recently, an emotional trama that left you feeling unsafe to share yourself...

Something to think about....

I think there are so many reasons for someone being stone...

Energy exchange
Personal Satisfaction
Personal Programning
Protection

Human Sexuality is complicated and so very interesting..

Myself...

The more emotionally compromised I am, the more dominate I am... It's not safe to let anyone in close enough to share myself... So I turn it and make it all about them...

The more dominant I am, the less I want to be touched... I'm not even aware of my body and it's physically distasteful to be touched... It's the mindgasm, the taking my partner to where they only dream of going that blows me away... Touching me actually shuts me down and turns me off.. It's all about them, because it's safer for me that way...

The girl is me is crippled.. driven to the point of insanity...wounded almost beyond repair... Almost is the key word... Slowly... oh so slowly... (with the help of an incredibly patent and stubborn butch) I'm doing the work that will allow her to come to dinner and stay for a while...

Sorry.. Got on a tangent there...

What I'm trying to say is..

Only you know why you are the way you are..

There is not a damn thing wrong with being stone... With deriving pleasure from pleasing your partner... (and I have to say... Tantric? hell yes.. please and thank you...) if you are built that way... (personally, I think it's hot as hell to have someone orgasm from fucking me..)or if you choose to be stone...

But if you are questioning, if it's on your mind... Then maybe it might be something else...

Only you can know.....

[BullDog]

As a stone butch I don't see having sex as being pre-defined or there being any less individual variation as to how I would relate to a partner. I don't think having sex with a stone butch is going to be any more or less predictable than having sex with someone who isn't stone butch and there's plenty of room for experimentation, spontaneity and playing off each other's vibes and energy exchange. That's not to say that every person is going to want to have sex with or partner with a stone butch. It's not for everyone.

I do agree with Converse that I don't equate being a Stone Butch with having sex with restrictions. It is much more encompassing than that. For me, it is quite freeing not restricting.

However, I don't think there is one, all encompassing Stone energy or that Stones can just nod at each other and know what one another is talking about- that's something I have seen discussed a number of times in the past, and I don't think that is the case. I think Stone Butch does mean different things to different people. I certainly don't relate at all when people start talking about feminizing touch or relating stone to being male. There are different types of Stone Butch and different personal meanings for it.

[girl_dee]

Originally Posted by BullDog

As a stone butch I don't see having sex as being pre-defined or there being any less individual variation as to how I would relate to a partner. I don't think having sex with a stone butch is going to be any more or less predictable than having sex with someone who isn't stone butch and there's plenty of room for experimentation, spontaneity and playing off each other's vibes and energy exchange. That's not to say that every person is going to want to have sex with or partner with a stone butch. It's not for everyone.

I do agree with Converse that I don't equate being a Stone Butch with having sex with restrictions. It is much more encompassing than that. For me, it is quite freeing not restricting.

However, I don't think there is one, all encompassing Stone energy or that Stones can just nod at each other and know what one another is talking about- that's something I have seen discussed a number of times in the past, and I don't think that is the case. I think Stone Butch does mean different things to different people. I certainly don't relate at all when people start talking about feminizing touch or relating stone to being male. There are different types of Stone Butch and different personal meanings for it.

Hi !

Your post jumped out at me.. maybe because of the time, 1:11 of your post (my own thing) and maybe because I have usually liked your input on these subjects.. I've seen the stone threads take a bad turn because not everyone agrees what a stone is. I liked what you said about leaving room for experimentation! I cannot imagine a world, or sex where it is so limited, dependent on a preconceived notion that I would or would not like something.. each person IS different. There are hard limits of course I realize this.. maybe thats why its called *stone* ?

Stone butch (and stone femme) like MANY words in our vocabulary are user defined.. as it should be I feel. I get confused with the whole thing.

[Gemme]

Originally Posted by sassy_girl

Hello Stoners...

I guess I am going against the grain here and saying I don't understand limiting your dating pool by what someone has wanted or wanted in sex. I could never not want to be with someone because of what they want or don't want sexually, I suppose if that would be a dealbreaker for me ( I can't even imagine) it would be different.

I guess I just don't see what is wrong with two people getting together and discovering what energy/magic/vibes they get off each other and rolling with it. The way I have been with one lover does not define how I will be with another lover..

It all just seems so predefined. I'm trying to understand I suppose.

Pre-defined.

If I may....kisses are pre-defined. You know what's going to happen, in general, if you kiss someone. Or do you?

Have you ever been kissed in a way and to the point that your heart flutters and your toes tingle? Have you felt the waves of love or lust eminating off of them though they've barely brushed your lips? Have you been kissed in a dirty back alley, hastily, with their hands twisted in your hair as you were shoved up against the brick wall? Have you spent hours lounging in bed, becoming intimately acquainted with another's lips? Have you expected one type of kiss...perhaps chaste...and been surprised by a lengthy, invasive French kiss? Or vise versa?

Every kiss is different, though it is only a kiss. It's pre-defined. Or is it?

My point is that what seems like putting limitations on intimacy to you is really ensuring that our partners (for the most part) will understand HOW we like to kiss, so to speak.

I see Stone as less of an inhibitor and more of a freeing agent, allowing me to be me and him to be himself, and both of us with the understanding of how we prefer to move within our intimate relationship...and how we like to kiss.

[asphaltcowboi]

good morning stones and all who relate in some sort of way... i hope everyone has a great weekend!

[girl_dee]

Originally Posted by Gemme

Pre-defined.

If I may....kisses are pre-defined. You know what's going to happen, in general, if you kiss someone. Or do you?

Have you ever been kissed in a way and to the point that your heart flutters and your toes tingle? Have you felt the waves of love or lust eminating off of them though they've barely brushed your lips? Have you been kissed in a dirty back alley, hastily, with their hands twisted in your hair as you were shoved up against the brick wall? Have you spent hours lounging in bed, becoming intimately acquainted with another's lips? Have you expected one type of kiss...perhaps chaste...and been surprised by a lengthy, invasive French kiss? Or vise versa?

Every kiss is different, though it is only a kiss. It's pre-defined. Or is it?

My point is that what seems like putting limitations on intimacy to you is really ensuring that our partners (for the most part) will understand HOW we like to kiss, so to speak.

I see Stone as less of an inhibitor and more of a freeing agent, allowing me to be me and him to be himself, and both of us with the understanding of how we prefer to move within our intimate relationship...and how we like to kiss.

Now that is an analogy I can understand... actually makes sense..

I do think the word itself *stone* may be where I get stuck.. It sounds very solid... this is it, no wavering.. so having realized this is a big help around how I view "stone" ...

Thanks Gemme!

[Sachita]

every time I enter this discussion my head feels like a pin ball machine.

for me its a type of dynamic I share with a stone butch. I dont want to touch hym/her in a feminine way yet I want to be touched that way. But really isnt this a butch-femme dynamic in a way? Maybe with a layer of stone?

but if my stone butch rolled over and asked me to fuck them them sideways I'd do it. It might not rock my world or float my boat but as a partner I'm more then happy to provide.

[Mister Bent]

Originally Posted by sassy_girl

Hi !

Your post jumped out at me.. maybe because of the time, 1:11 of your post (my own thing) and maybe because I have usually liked your input on these subjects.. I've seen the stone threads take a bad turn because not everyone agrees what a stone is. I liked what you said about leaving room for experimentation! I cannot imagine a world, or sex where it is so limited, dependent on a preconceived notion that I would or would not like something.. each person IS different. There are hard limits of course I realize this.. maybe thats why its called *stone* ?

Stone butch (and stone femme) like MANY words in our vocabulary are user defined.. as it should be I feel. I get confused with the whole thing.

I've read this thread a little here and there, and have largely held off posting because:

1) I don't at this point in my life identify as stone butch, though there was a time in which I did.
2) I have always been frustrated by how some attempt choose to define the identity of others. I mostly overcome this feeling by remembering that the ignorance, assumptions and sense of entitlement of others is no reflection on me.

However, I was sort of surprised that by page 4 there has been no discussion of the etymology of the word, even after sassy made the post above.

While many words are "user defined," especially those revolving around identity (like "stone"), each does have a root from which it originated. Stone comes from the term "stone cold," to refer to things that were "very cold." The root of that expression is believed to reference when floors were often made of slate and would become extremely cold in winter. Other examples of this application include, "stone cold sober" simply meaning very sober; sober as most possibly sober.

One commonly held belief is that "stone butch" came about to refer to butches that were "stone cold butch;" the most butch among butches - those who were most masculine (and I pointedly state "masculine" not male). This is the definition to which I have always held. It refers to a butch who is unwavering in their identity, and in their presentation of self; one who would never sacrifice their personal sense of comfort, well being and identity in order to bend to the wishes of others, whether seeking a job, dealing with family, or a sexual partner. This definition, for me, includes no particular reference to sex/sexuality, but allows for each stone butch to define for themselves what their comfort level is and how they are going to hold that line - in all aspects of their life. Technically, that means a stone butch could be quite "free" sexually, including open to anal penetration or oral sex, for example.

I have seen a lot of nonsense over the years in which people have tried to say that if one is stone they would never engage in x, y, z sexual practices, but I disagree that the label includes such rigid definitions, or in fact, that it would necessarily include much in the way of preconceived or pre-defined notions of sex. Further, being stone doesn't in any way necessarily relate to being a top, or a "daddy." These are other, unrelated identities that can certainly be attached, but are not inclusive in the definition of stone butch.

[Bit]

Originally Posted by Converse

It is simply who I am, it is not an activity or a set of guidelines that are followed when the bedroom door is closed- it is who I am when I sit across the dinner table from you,

YES. Did you hear the click? Circuit complete....

Originally Posted by Converse

it is who I am when my opinion or advice is sought, it is who I am when I greet or walk beside you. We can only really understand the world from the shoes in which we stand- and although my boots are Stone, they are not heavy or uncomfortable; they instead make me sure footed, connected, confident.

This is exactly what I mean, exactly what draws me--the place from which a Stone Butch sees the world.

Originally Posted by Converse

Anybody can change their behaviour; ignoring the fact that I would probably be sporting a twisted ankle within minutes, I’m sure for example I could wear a pair of heels. But as disorientating as that might be to any onlooker, it would be nothing compared to the degree of alienation that I would feel about myself. Can I explain why? No not really- all I know is that is who I am. It feels right and as natural as hmmmm… stone.

One of the things which draws me to both Stone Butches and Transmen is this kind of self-awareness and self-confidence, this (usually hard-won) knowledge that of all the ways to be in this world and regardless of other people's judgment, this is the way that fits them best--and not just them, but also fits me (and other potential partners) the best. It was Stone Butches who taught me to stop judging myself by other people's (impossible) standards, who allowed me to simply relax into myself and be who I am in all parts of my life without fear or guilt. It was Stone Butches who taught me--just by existing--about that energy circuit, and what it can mean when the connection is made. It was Stone Butches who knew what to say and how to say it, who knew how to rebuild my shattered confidence, who knew how to tell me that I have value just by being.

That wasn't a message I could hear from other Butches, even when they spoke it. I heard it from Stone Butches because of the energy connection between us; that period of my life, that time of great healing, holds my most treasured friendships and memories.

[Chazz]

Thank your for this post.

Originally Posted by Mister Bent

I've read this thread a little here and there, and have largely held off posting because:

1) I don't at this point in my life identify as stone butch, though there was a time in which I did.

This has been my experience. I identified as "stone butch" for 14 years, through two relationships, then this happened:

Originally Posted by sassy_girl

Hello Stoners...

I guess I am going against the grain here and saying I don't understand limiting your dating pool by what someone has wanted or wanted in sex. I could never not want to be with someone because of what they want or don't want sexually, I suppose if that would be a dealbreaker for me ( I can't even imagine) it would be different.

I guess I just don't see what is wrong with two people getting together and discovering what energy/magic/vibes they get off each other and rolling with it. The way I have been with one lover does not define how I will be with another lover.

It all just seems so predefined. I'm trying to understand I suppose.

Yep, that's what happened to me alright. My partner and I rolled with it and came out in a new place, together, and individually.

Originally Posted by Mister Bent

One commonly held belief is that "stone butch" came about to refer to butches that were "stone cold butch;" the most butch among butches - those who were most masculine (and I pointedly state "masculine" not male).

This is the definition to which I have always held.

Ah, the hierarchy of butch-ness.... Agreed, that is a very common definition. I subscribed to it myself for many years.

I guess I'm an exception to that definition (assumption?). I look, behave, live, am taken for, butcher than butch, but I no longer ID as stone.

(I suspect there are a great many more butches like me than is commonly thought.)



But, back to this:

Originally Posted by sassy_girl

...I guess I just don't see what is wrong with two people getting together and discovering what energy/magic/vibes they get off each other and rolling with it. The way I have been with one lover does not define how I will be with another lover.

This is precisely what happened to me. Imagine my surprise !

Originally Posted by Mister Bent

This is the definition to which I have always held. It refers to a butch who is unwavering in their identity, and in their presentation of self; one who would never sacrifice their personal sense of comfort, well being and identity in order to bend to the wishes of others, whether seeking a job, dealing with family, or a sexual partner. This definition, for me, includes no particular reference to sex/sexuality, but allows for each stone butch to define for themselves what their comfort level is and how they are going to hold that line - in all aspects of their life. Technically, that means a stone butch could be quite "free" sexually, including open to anal penetration or oral sex, for example.

But not just stone butches - all butches. Oh yeah, and femmes, too.

Hierarchies suck.