Top 10 Lesbian Myths

[Rope]

That is why I have always found a difference between lesbians and butch/femme. In my unscientific surveying, butch/femme has less bed death because we tend to have elements of sexuality in our identity. It's a more cock centric vs. dildo centric identification--butch cock that is.

I don't identify as a lesbian, I identify as a butch. I feel I am on the male side of butch and prefer 'hy' rather than she as a pronoun, it's not much deeper of an identification than that. That said, no, I do not want to be a man as some would think that myth goes--the more masculine the butch, the more they want to be a man.

Rope--

[BullDog]

Myth: butches and femmes are not lesbians.

Reality: Many of us are both.

[Nat]

My femme cock begs to differ with the idea that the existence of butch cock is the reason for lesbian-sex-life longevity. :P

At least, I certainly hope that butch cock is not the only possible resolution to or vaccination against lbd.

[BullDog]

Originally Posted by Nat

My femme cock begs to differ with the idea that the existence of butch cock is the reason for lesbian-sex-life longevity. :P

At least, I certainly hope that butch cock is not the only possible resolution to or vaccination against lbd.

Yes, I agree. I am a butch with a cock, no dildo-centrism here. However I also find the notion that butch femme sex to be cock-centric to be quite inaccurate as well as offensive. Also femmes have cocks as well as butches. People (whatever their sexuality or gender identity may be) can enjoy sex without a penis, cock, dildo etc. being "centric." I also don't see butch femme sexuality (whatever that is supposed to be) to be centered around butch.

[Rope]

Hmm, not sure why you're offended. I certainly did not mean to imply that butch/femme cock centric sex was the ONLY way we know how to entertain ourselves. My main distinction was the difference between butch cock and lesbian dildos (many of the lesbians I know are quite offended that SOME butches think of it as their butch cock and not a toy).

[BullDog]

First of all, many butches and femmes are also lesbians, so the reasoning doesn't make any sense (less bed death for butch-femme vs lesbian).

Second of all, butches aren't the only ones with cocks.

Third, butch femme sexuality isn't cock-centric or centered around butches.

Oh and the thought of lesbian sex (lesbians who don't view themselves or their partners as having a cock) as dildo-centric just makes me laugh, lol.

Even if there supposedly was some distinction between seeing sex centered around a cock vs. a dildo, how would that make a difference in less bed death anyway? One is considered a toy and one is not???? That makes for less bed death?

[Nat]

I am not partnered with a butch and I am *very happy* with what happens in my bed.

I have in the past enjoyed the "company" of butches and bois (lesbian-identified and not, stone and not), cismen, transmen, androgynous lesbians, feminine lesbians and one straight girl. Of the butches, some were cock-centric, some didn't even want to consider wearing one, some wanted to be slapped, some wanted to be called Daddy. Some were mostly hands-on, some were mostly on their backs, etc. It seemed to me there was no rule about how a butch f*cks any more than there's a rule about how anybody else does.

I have zero complaints regarding the "butch cock" but (to me) it's not a magic wand and you don't have to be butch to have an immersive, visceral experience wearing one. And for those butches who don't identify with or enjoy the experience, I don't think that subtracts from their inherent butchness one iota.

I really haven't noticed a huge correlation between people's identities and what they do in bed, with the exception of the term "stone" which still varies a lot from person to person.

PS. I'm not offended - I just don't want have one very specific myth of butch-femme sex - or lesbian sex - to be perpetuated unchecked. There are lesbians who take their cocks very seriously (like me) and there are lesbians who consider them toys and there are lesbians who consider them unnecessary, and there are lesbians who really want absolutely nothing to do with them. There are butches who take their cocks very seriously, there are butches who consider them toys and there are butches who consider them unnecessary and there are butches who really want absolutely nothing to do with them. There are femmes who take their cocks very seriously (again, like me!), there are femmes who consider them toys, there are femmes who consider them unnecessary and there are femmes who really want absolutely nothing to do with them. Anyway, I'm sure you get the idea.

I'm betting what you said though Rope - has been true for you and your experience. I don't think you meant anything offensive in your post.

The first butch I "dated" said very negative things about "lesbians" in bed, and she tended to look for straight girls because she had unstated boundaries about how she wanted to be touched and looking for straight feminine women was her solution. I was just coming to understand my sexuality when I met her, and after our first (and only) encounter, she told me I was definitely a "lesbian" and then she told all her friends I was "too butch" for her. However, she never stated her boundaries, she seemed to be quite happy during the encounter. Eh, the experience was painful all around, and I think it would have been less so if people didn't assume that these identities equate to certain acts in the bedroom.

[AtLast]

Originally Posted by Nat

My femme cock begs to differ with the idea that the existence of butch cock is the reason for lesbian-sex-life longevity. :P

At least, I certainly hope that butch cock is not the only possible resolution to or vaccination against lbd.

Yeah, and my butch clit thinks this whole conversation is absurd- as if every population doesn't experience bed-death in some form as well! With a whole lot of reasons... which have solutions! Most of which have nothing to do with sex directly and everything to do with other areas of communication and the willingness to do something about it.

I get so tired of who calls what...... what and why and that every person experiences the same things as sexual beings.

[BullDog]

Originally Posted by AtLastHome

Yeah, and my butch clit thinks this whole conversation is absurd- as if every population doesn't experience bed-death in some form as well! With a whole lot of reasons... which have solutions! Most of which have nothing to do with sex directly and everything to do with other areas of communication and the willingness to do something about it.

I get so tired of who calls what...... what and why and that every person experiences the same things as sexual beings.

As to bed death (whether it be lesbian and/or butch femme or any other), I agree with AtLast, I think it has more to do with communication, willingness to keep an intimate relationship growing and thriving, and a missing emotional connection more than having to do with actual sex. Then there is just all the issues of life that have to be dealt with, which leave people with not a lot of time and energy.

[AtLast]

Originally Posted by BullDog

As to bed death (whether it be lesbian and/or butch femme or any other), I agree with AtLast, I think it has more to do with communication, willingness to keep an intimate relationship growing and thriving, and a missing emotional connection more than having to do with actual sex. Then there is just all the issues of life that have to be dealt with, which leave people with not a lot of time and energy.

Yup... and although most people don't want to face it, we do slow down as we age and sex is included in the slow down (so is a wonderful history of creativity). Plus, medications/disability can have an effect on libido. Although, I have to add that "seniors" are far more sexually active than "myth" dictates as well!! Ut, Oh, I feel an attack of ageism and able-body privilege (with coming over me..

And there are many more "measures" of sexual activity than penis-to-vagina methods. The fact is butch/femme cock follows a very straight, heterosexual mode of sexually interpretation. Which is why I personally use accessorize, accessory for butch cock for myself. And toy as well (although not much anymore). No, cock doesn't set me off into defensive feminist mode- I just figure we all have our own terms we prefer. And if a femme I am intimate with wants to call it a cock, I don't care! Our mutual pleasure and satisfaction is what counts

Although, I am fond of “Where’s the toy box, Babe, I want to pick something out?” Oh, Geez, I am not dominant enough, either, I bet. I get off on her (a femme) making decisions around sex! Damn, there goes that butch card, again. Sorry, I do tire of so damn many of the sexual parameters we seem to have.

Oye! Maybe my feelings have something to do with raising a heterosexual male through the teenage years… believe me, I really got tired of cock-centricity… dunno… maybe we should have a poll on this and see what other parents of male kid would say- with the inclusion of a trans related item… who knows….

I am not trying to be snarky, I really am trying to infuse humor into this conversation. When I am able to laugh at myself, I end up seeing things much more clearly, plus I stop taking myself so seriously which calms me down…. I really don’t have a problem with whatever and however anyone wants to embrace (or not) butch-cock or just plain cock. Just please don’t judge my own personal thoughts about it or give me another identifier to deal with! I am as much lesbian as I am butch.

[LipstickLola]

I appreciate the gravity of this subject, but can I just say, there was no death in my bed this weekend

Oh, and the point is? two lesbians, mutual gratification, no issue over who did what to whom or when and how and...........and it was real sex, without a real label I guess?

[Julie]

Originally Posted by AtLastHome

Yup... and although most people don't want to face it, we do slow down as we age and sex is included in the slow down (so is a wonderful history of creativity). Plus, medications/disability can have an effect on libido. Although, I have to add that "seniors" are far more sexually active than "myth" dictates as well!! Ut, Oh, I feel an attack of ageism and able-body privilege (with coming over me..

And there are many more "measures" of sexual activity than penis-to-vagina methods. The fact is butch/femme cock follows a very straight, heterosexual mode of sexually interpretation. Which is why I personally use accessorize, accessory for butch cock for myself. And toy as well (although not much anymore). No, cock doesn't set me off into defensive feminist mode- I just figure we all have our own terms we prefer. And if a femme I am intimate with wants to call it a cock, I don't care! Our mutual pleasure and satisfaction is what counts

Although, I am fond of “Where’s the toy box, Babe, I want to pick something out?” Oh, Geez, I am not dominant enough, either, I bet. I get off on her (a femme) making decisions around sex! Damn, there goes that butch card, again. Sorry, I do tire of so damn many of the sexual parameters we seem to have.

Oye! Maybe my feelings have something to do with raising a heterosexual male through the teenage years… believe me, I really got tired of cock-centricity… dunno… maybe we should have a poll on this and see what other parents of male kid would say- with the inclusion of a trans related item… who knows….

I am not trying to be snarky, I really am trying to infuse humor into this conversation. When I am able to laugh at myself, I end up seeing things much more clearly, plus I stop taking myself so seriously which calms me down…. I really don’t have a problem with whatever and however anyone wants to embrace (or not) butch-cock or just plain cock. Just please don’t judge my own personal thoughts about it or give me another identifier to deal with! I am as much lesbian as I am butch.

ALH,

I do really enjoy your postings. They are generally well thought out. I am having trouble with this one.

I identify as a Femme - I identify as a Lesbian - I identify as a Woman - I identify as a Momma to 3 male son's raised in a Lesbian household.

You wrote: "The fact is butch/femme cock follows a very straight, heterosexual mode of sexually interpretation."

Dammit, this has set me off. I am not even sure how to address it, because this type of talk coming from you, is leaving me feeling a tad unbalanced.

FEMME Here - who loves the Butch Cock! There is nothing straight/heterosexual about me. Not in the way I make love, fuck, love, raise children or live my life. Yet... I would be rather lost without the Butch COCK in my life. I do not want the Dildo - I want the BUTCH COCK. I am really horrified by your statement here.

My son's (all three of them) know their Momma is a Femme and their Momma loves Butches. They also understand about the Butch Cock, because in our household, we discuss everything. They did not have a bio male father to educate them about sex. They had a Femme Momma who taught them about oral sex, taught them how to fuck, talked to them about the female orgasm through hours of open and honest conversation. Even they understand the difference between a butch cock and a dildo and they would NEVER think or believe there is anything heterosexual about their Momma or the Butch in their Momma's life.

Also, maybe I am not quite a senior yet - but I am approaching 50 and my body hurts as well. I sometimes find it hard to drag myself out of bed. However... Sex? Making Love? Fucking? Whatever you might call it. Wakes me up both physically and emotionally, and I am planning on having it wake me up till the day I close my eyes their final time. I cannot imagine not wanting or longing for that touch for the rest of my life.

I feel you have with your words, taken a beautiful dynamic and dirtied it. YES - to me, being categorized with a stereotypical heterosexual dynamic, is dirty to me.

I am sure you did not intend to come off snarky, but really it did come off that way, at least to me.

p.s. There are no facts when it comes to fucking or making love. The only facts are... When it comes to safe consensual sex - then there are facts.

[CherylNYC]

Originally Posted by AtLastHome

...

And there are many more "measures" of sexual activity than penis-to-vagina methods. The fact is butch/femme cock follows a very straight, heterosexual mode of sexually interpretation. Which is why I personally use accessorize, accessory for butch cock for myself. And toy as well (although not much anymore). No, cock doesn't set me off into defensive feminist mode- I just figure we all have our own terms we prefer. And if a femme I am intimate with wants to call it a cock, I don't care! Our mutual pleasure and satisfaction is what counts....

I don't want to pick on you, ALH. Your posts are usually so affirming, but this jumped out at me, too. The first two sentences of that paragraph remind me of a conversation I had with a lesbian acquaintance who was having trouble understanding why butches wanted to dress "like men". I took a deep breath and explained that butch women are no more trying to imitate men than men are trying to imitate butches. Women dress the way they feel comfortable, as do men, so why would a person assume that butch women are the ones doing the imitating?

When it comes to butch cock, why would butch/femme sex in which butch cock plays a starring roll be viewed as imitative of heterosexual sex? I'm a lesbian and that's how I have sex, so it's lesbian sex to me. Straight people can imitate us if they choose. That doesn't bother me a bit.

[Sachita]

Originally Posted by AtLastHome

Yup... and although most people don't want to face it, we do slow down as we age and sex is included in the slow down (so is a wonderful history of creativity). Plus, medications/disability can have an effect on libido. Although, I have to add that "seniors" are far more sexually active than "myth" dictates as well!! Ut, Oh, I feel an attack of ageism and able-body privilege (with coming over me..

And there are many more "measures" of sexual activity than penis-to-vagina methods. The fact is butch/femme cock follows a very straight, heterosexual mode of sexually interpretation. Which is why I personally use accessorize, accessory for butch cock for myself. And toy as well (although not much anymore). No, cock doesn't set me off into defensive feminist mode- I just figure we all have our own terms we prefer. And if a femme I am intimate with wants to call it a cock, I don't care! Our mutual pleasure and satisfaction is what counts

Although, I am fond of “Where’s the toy box, Babe, I want to pick something out?” Oh, Geez, I am not dominant enough, either, I bet. I get off on her (a femme) making decisions around sex! Damn, there goes that butch card, again. Sorry, I do tire of so damn many of the sexual parameters we seem to have.

Oye! Maybe my feelings have something to do with raising a heterosexual male through the teenage years… believe me, I really got tired of cock-centricity… dunno… maybe we should have a poll on this and see what other parents of male kid would say- with the inclusion of a trans related item… who knows….

I am not trying to be snarky, I really am trying to infuse humor into this conversation. When I am able to laugh at myself, I end up seeing things much more clearly, plus I stop taking myself so seriously which calms me down…. I really don’t have a problem with whatever and however anyone wants to embrace (or not) butch-cock or just plain cock. Just please don’t judge my own personal thoughts about it or give me another identifier to deal with! I am as much lesbian as I am butch.

I love your exchange in this entire thread,

I think that as we get older sex is different and not as much of a priority. Throughout your life time you evolve emotionally and spiritually. Your priorities change. I have experimented with many things but the one thing present is that I am lesbian. I don't have a choice with this. I am free spirited and open. I was always attracted to masculine lesbians. When I discovered BF I was thrilled there were others like me. I've dated all types of people but have concluded, at this stage of my life I am lesbian- whatever the fuck that means. I don't know about lesbian death bed but I can see where two mature women reach a place of comfort and where intimacy doesn't have to include an orgasm. I can take or leave dildos or whatever kind of name you wanna give it BUT the vibrator stays! (wink) For me it all boils down to finding a connection and feeling a deep beautiful intimate spiritual connection. After everything I'd done, seen, been and know I am guessing this will be a lesbian butch woman. If its not then thats ok too.

[Jett]

Originally Posted by Rope

That is why I have always found a difference between lesbians and butch/femme. In my unscientific surveying, butch/femme has less bed death because we tend to have elements of sexuality in our identity. It's a more cock centric vs. dildo centric identification--butch cock that is.

I don't identify as a lesbian, I identify as a butch. I feel I am on the male side of butch and prefer 'hy' rather than she as a pronoun, it's not much deeper of an identification than that. That said, no, I do not want to be a man as some would think that myth goes--the more masculine the butch, the more they want to be a man.

Rope--

Seems you are saying if there's not a "cock" mentality involved in human sexual interactions bed death is sure to follow. Or w/o cock there's no elements of "sexuality".

REALLY?

Guess what... sex doesn't just go tits up when there's not a cock involved. I'm not going to detail my sex life on a public forum, but to say it is well rounded... yes... but doesn't solely depend on a-n-y-t-h-i-n-g in particular but my love and desire for my gal.

(not directed at you Rope) These types of inferences, whether it be male=masculine... butches have to have "butch cuts" (hair)... female butches are "butch lite"... all the lesbian myths, etc. etc. etc. day in and day out is one of the reasons I don't frequent many BF places anymore.... I simply get so effin' tired of people telling others (and me) what they say, do, look like and identify as means.

I don't need to be pumped up and I don't need to be cut down and I'm deeper and more 3 dimensional than all these boxes. My internal make-up is where the dominant part of my masculinity lay, more than existing in say, my hairstyle. It's always been about my insides. My walk, talk and emotional aura... and my masculinity it's female born and that doesn't make it less powerful or dominant in my personality.

Further... my feminine part, (yes feminine) my female "essence" is not a pink bow on my unders... , it's soft soulful entwined connect w/ other females... and it's a black satin fiery blast if pushed too hard... there's nothing pink, giggly or gushy about it.

Ya know, thinking, it's no different from the real world has often been to femmes, butches and the like, placing preconceived bs expectation or how XYZ has to look act and be to be accepted. It's really to bad that we too often do that to our own.

[Medusa]

Originally Posted by Metropolis

Seems you are saying if there's not a "cock" mentality involved in human sexual interactions bed death is sure to follow. Or w/o cock there's no elements of "sexuality".

REALLY?

Guess what... sex doesn't just go tits up when there's not a cock involved. I'm not going to detail my sex life on a public forum, but to say it is well rounded... yes... but doesn't solely depend on a-n-y-t-h-i-n-g in particular but my love and desire for my gal.

(not directed at you Rope) These types of inferences, whether it be male=masculine... butches have to have "butch cuts" (hair)... female butches are "butch lite"... all the lesbian myths, etc. etc. etc. day in and day out is one of the reasons I don't frequent many BF places anymore.... I simply get so effin' tired of people telling others (and me) what they say, do, look like and identify as means.

I don't need to be pumped up and I don't need to be cut down and I'm deeper and more 3 dimensional than all these boxes. My internal make-up is where the dominant part of my masculinity lay, more than existing in say, my hairstyle. It's always been about my insides. My walk, talk and emotional aura... and my masculinity it's female born and that doesn't make it less powerful or dominant in my personality.

Further... my feminine part, (yes feminine) my female "essence" is not a pink bow on my unders... , it's soft soulful entwined connect w/ other females... and it's a black satin fiery blast if pushed too hard... there's nothing pink, giggly or gushy about it.

Ya know, thinking, it's no different from the real world has often been to femmes, butches and the like, placing preconceived bs expectation or how XYZ has to look act and be to be accepted. It's really to bad that we too often do that to our own.

Met~
This post speaks to me - Hell, speaks FOR me in some ways.

I'll file this under "myths":

Butch does not equal "strapper".
Femme does not equal "strap recipient".

I kinda like the idea that people's gender is not necessarily defined by how they get off, with what, or with who. I know plenty of Butches, Trans men, and Bio men who enjoy penetration, etc. and I certainly don't think of them as any "less than".

Actually, I think it's pretty hot when people get off unapologetically in whatever way they see fit.

Good stuff.

[Kobi]

Originally Posted by Metropolis

Seems you are saying if there's not a "cock" mentality involved in human sexual interactions bed death is sure to follow. Or w/o cock there's no elements of "sexuality".

REALLY?

Guess what... sex doesn't just go tits up when there's not a cock involved. I'm not going to detail my sex life on a public forum, but to say it is well rounded... yes... but doesn't solely depend on a-n-y-t-h-i-n-g in particular but my love and desire for my gal.

(not directed at you Rope) These types of inferences, whether it be male=masculine... butches have to have "butch cuts" (hair)... female butches are "butch lite"... all the lesbian myths, etc. etc. etc. day in and day out is one of the reasons I don't frequent many BF places anymore.... I simply get so effin' tired of people telling others (and me) what they say, do, look like and identify as means.

I don't need to be pumped up and I don't need to be cut down and I'm deeper and more 3 dimensional than all these boxes. My internal make-up is where the dominant part of my masculinity lay, more than existing in say, my hairstyle. It's always been about my insides. My walk, talk and emotional aura... and my masculinity it's female born and that doesn't make it less powerful or dominant in my personality.

Further... my feminine part, (yes feminine) my female "essence" is not a pink bow on my unders... , it's soft soulful entwined connect w/ other females... and it's a black satin fiery blast if pushed too hard... there's nothing pink, giggly or gushy about it.

Ya know, thinking, it's no different from the real world has often been to femmes, butches and the like, placing preconceived bs expectation or how XYZ has to look act and be to be accepted. It's really to bad that we too often do that to our own.

Seems like different people bring out different sides of us in different situations. Nice to have variety and flexibilty to explore all sides of oneself. Being cockcentric, to me, would be very limiting.

Plus, so much of sexuality and sensuality, to me, is cerebrally/emotionally based. Engage me there and the sky is the limit. Problems there will lead to new meaning in bed death.

And, I find it very erotic to be with someone who breaks the mold of what would be expected based on a label or a look.

[BullDog]

The whole idea that there is more lesbian bed death than butch femme (even though they completely overlap so that it makes no sense) due to cock centrism or the lack thereof perpetuates a myth that straight people have about lesbians which is-there's no penis how could they have sex?

Insert butch cock (pun intended) instead of penis and voila- we have a heteronormative view of sex once again. Those pointing that out are not saying enjoying butch cock is heteronormative- it's putting it front and center and making the enjoyment of sex all about the cock that is heteronormative. Why not worship the beautiful vagina instead? Why is cock always front and center?

Women can easily have sex with or without a penis, cock, dildo (in various shapes, materials, colors, etc) and enjoy ourselves completely.

I of course agree with Metro and Kobi that my sex life isn't limited to just my butch cock. I'm a stone butch. I am also a butch dyke/lesbian. I have hands, mouth, body, brains, creativity and imagination too, so why would I center my sexuality around one thing only? I can please and be pleased in a multitude of ways. I also agree with Kobi that bed death would be more emotionally based.

[Soft*Silver]

something I have learned is dont jump to conclusions about who is behind a label.

I am a femme and I strap on. I didnt use to but oh I do now. I stepped out of the box I put myself in as a femme and allowed myself to strap on .

so add that to my label of heterosexual....

[foxyshaman]

I have been away for a few months and somehow <insert shy grin> came to the lesbian myth forum and there was a debate on bed-death, and cocks and all such things..

and then o'mcdonald songs

and birkies

and hummus

and Goodness me I missed this great bunch!!!

Thanks, as always for the insight. And well the occassional "hit my head with my palm" moments. Sometimes the same conversations go a-round for some time. Nothing really changes, but the conversations are always quite interesting. I like the philosophy. I still consider myself a dangerously dorky dyke with a perpensity to strap-on, ride hard and... well now I am just blushing...

Just poppin in...

Foxyshaman