Getting Rid of Flippant Language : Check Yourselves Here

[apretty]

Originally Posted by June

This just happened today where someone who claims to love, worship and adore ALL Femmes referred to one of them as a pig.

--June

or how about the (very large) butch that makes references to the SIZE of a larger femme?

i think that you should name names so that i can send an xmas card all infected with my current bout of (not really, but it sounds dramatic) swine flu.

[apretty]

Originally Posted by June

I digress here, but I sat in the presence of someone once that expounded on what made someone an "A" list Femme. First thing on the list? Thin. Of course, according to this person, an "A" list Femme could only be had by an "A" list Butch who should be in this order 1) Thin 2) Rich

Oh, Jesus. The things we do to each other in the name of heirarchy. For the record, I am not a fan of the threads devoted to the love of big folks, when I know that many in our community would be all up someone's ass if they started one expounding the beauty of thin folks. And that's June's opinion as a community member FWIW. Have at it

I'll see your and raise you a

i totally get your point on the thin-empowering-thread. but, fact is--the fat-lacking peoples aren't a disenfranchised group. does this make a difference, or no? just curious. i am fuzzyheaded from this faux-swine flu, so i'm sans piss and/or vinegar.

ps. i'm not a super huge fan of the fatgirl threads because they feel a little woo-woo to me and i'm more than my size, i'm my size in addition to lots of other stuff, but it's not the end-all be all. plus, i am not satisfied with my current weight. i fluctuate a lot and i do weight-watchers (not in the last couple of months) and i go for periods of exercising and not exercising--either way, i am interested in my *health* in relation to *my personal* size and it's a (huge fucking) battle. but, again--it begins and ends with my loving myself. today. currently. at this size. /rant. still, i think it (the big folks threads) has the potential to be some amazing space when you come from a place (in real life) where "the fat" is super hush-hush and never mentioned...



ps. i love pigs, i don't even eat pork!

[Queerasfck]

Originally Posted by apretty

i totally get your point on the thin-empowering-thread. but, fact is--the fat-lacking peoples aren't a disenfranchised group. does this make a difference, or no? just curious. i am fuzzyheaded from this faux-swine flu, so i'm sans piss and/or vinegar.

ps. i'm not a super huge fan of the fatgirl threads because they feel a little woo-woo to me and i'm more than my size, i'm my size in addition to lots of other stuff, but it's not the end-all be all. plus, i am not satisfied with my current weight. i fluctuate a lot and i do weight-watchers (not in the last couple of months) and i go for periods of exercising and not exercising--either way, i am interested in my *health* in relation to *my personal* size and it's a (huge fucking) battle. but, again--it begins and ends with my loving myself. today. currently. at this size. /rant. still, i think it (the big folks threads) has the potential to be some amazing space when you come from a place (in real life) where "the fat" is super hush-hush and never mentioned...



ps. i love pigs, i don't even eat pork!

I'm eating Ben and Jerry's Peanut Butter Cup ice cream right now. Want some???

[WILDCAT]

Originally Posted by EzeeTiger

I'm eating Ben and Jerry's Peanut Butter Cup ice cream right now. Want some???

OK, question here. To me this response "seemed flippant".

No offense EzeeTiger, and you and apretty might be very close for all I know and this is just fun joking between you two.

But, to ME... I saw apretty poor her guts out, talking about something very personally vulnerable, as it is to many - to be dismissed by what appears to be a form of mocking, by dangling ice cream in front of someone stating they struggle. I don't get the point of this post, thus. Apretty stated she was not satisifed with her current weight and it is a (huge fucking) battle. As my weight is with me, and I'm sure others as well here.

So, am I too sensitive and overprotective? If someone said, "I don't care what size I am" and then someone offered ice cream, I would feel completely different about it. But, this felt hurtful somehow.

Hope it is OK that I used this example. I felt I couldn't get past it. If you or anyone could help me understand why this would not be seen as possibly hurtful - then please do.

Sincerely,
WILDCAT

[apretty]

Originally Posted by EzeeTiger

I'm eating Ben and Jerry's Peanut Butter Cup ice cream right now. Want some???

feeder! and thanks, i really didn't need that dairy!

thanks Wildcat, EZ is being as sensitive as he can (which ain't a lot).

[Queerasfck]

Originally Posted by WILDCAT

OK, question here. To me this response "seemed flippant".

No offense EzeeTiger, and you and apretty might be very close for all I know and this is just fun joking between you two.

But, to ME... I saw apretty poor her guts out, talking about something very personally vulnerable, as it is to many - to be dismissed by what appears to be a form of mocking, by dangling ice cream in front of someone stating they struggle. I don't get the point of this post, thus. Apretty stated she was not satisifed with her current weight and it is a (huge fucking) battle. As my weight is with me, and I'm sure others as well here.

So, am I too sensitive and overprotective? If someone said, "I don't care what size I am" and then someone offered ice cream, I would feel completely different about it. But, this felt hurtful somehow.

Hope it is OK that I used this example. I felt I couldn't get past it. If you or anyone could help me understand why this would not be seen as possibly hurtful - then please do.

Sincerely,
WILDCAT

Dear WILDCAT,

Yeah, we're kinda close.

Thanks,

Ezee

[WILDCAT]

Originally Posted by apretty

feeder! and thanks, i really didn't need that dairy!

thanks Wildcat, EZ is being as sensitive as he can (which ain't a lot).

OK, perhaps then I should wait and see responses. I apologize. (I initially was going to state you two could be partners for all I know!)




PEACE!

[Queerasfck]

Originally Posted by apretty

feeder! and thanks, i really didn't need that dairy!

thanks Wildcat, EZ is being as sensitive as he can (which ain't a lot).

where thread for me--insensitive, caveman butch?? UGH.

[apretty]

Originally Posted by WILDCAT

OK, perhaps then I should wait and see responses. I apologize. (I initially was going to state you two could be partners for all I know!)




PEACE!

sorry, Wildcat, i didn't even consider that that was a 'fat comment' because i know EZ so well and he's just not like that (we are partners, living together and all that good stuff). i would have probably said something too, being sensitive to that kind of thing. thank you for your thoughtfulness.

[WILDCAT]

Originally Posted by apretty

sorry, Wildcat, i didn't even consider that that was a 'fat comment' because i know EZ so well and he's just not like that (we are partners, living together and all that good stuff). i would have probably said something too, being sensitive to that kind of thing. thank you for your thoughtfulness.

Smiling here. I DO feel a bit embarrassed. Yep! I thought "what if these two are partners"? However, my other protective and sensitive side took over and thought, "ouch, that felt like a kick in the gut". Well, my issues and it was being discussed here. I admired your post on your personal take - responding to June's post. (Liked your post too June!)

This is why it is good that we discuss these kinds of things. We're just writing and I certainly don't realize who all knows who and "how". See, now I know with [you two] the response was really about "acceptance", which is a beautiful thing!

The weight issue is so loaded in our society - and as some have posted here, comes through on the site in ways not always comfortable for all.
__

I did "pause" to see if someone was going to stand up somehow, (you or a friend to be exact - you seem to be "apretty strong woman"). I just didn't wait LONG ENOUGH!

My bad... I distain folks ripping on heavier folks.



Wildcat

*Thank you so much for understanding and the feedback. I really appreciate that! Thanks to you too, EZ!! Enjoy your holidays!!

[MsDemeanor]

Gee, if every potential misunderstanding or misinterpretation or just questioning intent could be handled in the manner of the last series of posts, we'd all end up being nice to each other!!!!!

[MsDemeanor]

Originally Posted by MizzSabra

Offensive to me: "Don't think, just sit there and be pretty." THAT is offensive to ME. And yes, I've had gfs say that to me.

I can not possibly even begin to imagine that anyone who knows anything about you would ever dare to say that to you.

[WILDCAT]

Originally Posted by MsDemeanor

Gee, if every potential misunderstanding or misinterpretation or just questioning intent could be handled in the manner of the last series of posts, we'd all end up being nice to each other!!!!!

I know, I "hate" being nice.

So, MsD - imagine that!!?? Where's your political thread? I am really missing those here?!


Sincerely,
WC

[MsDemeanor]

Sorry, Wildcat, I've been up to my eyeballs in stuff and crap and shit and things for the past couple of months. Perhaps things will settle down a bit in another month or so.

It's nice to know that I've been missed, kinda makes me feel all warm and fuzzy.

[MizzSabra]

Originally Posted by MsDemeanor

I can not possibly even begin to imagine that anyone who knows anything about you would ever dare to say that to you.

That's why the 2 people who said it to me are exs.

[Arwen]

Wicket said:
A reference was made that some people just seem to be offended by everything. I don't believe it is my right to determine what someone finds offensive or not. In the case of offensive statements I don't believe the person expressing being offended should be questioned. Words do hurt, and part of developing and maintaining a safe place where all have a voice is refraining from making statements that you know will be offensive.


I woke up thinking about this statement. I wanted to address one piece of this or rather one important person in that scenario above.

The person who is offended needs to have the courage to say something to the person who said the offending term. As has been pointed out by many of us, we do not always know when a word is offensive. So being told in a frank and gentle way is important.

I do have to tell you that the co-worker I said something about the word retarded said something to another co=worker who used the term later that day. I don't know what was said because i was in the middle of helping a customer, but I did hear the 2nd person say "retarded."

Now, the other co-worker may have said "That's not a nice thing and here's why" or more likely he said, "Don't say that where she can hear you." Either way is fine as long as they learn to eliminate that word within my hearing.

Who knows...maybe they will realize why it is wrong to equate the word retard with lazy and stupid.

I can hope. I can also hope that when someone tells me a word offends them or something I've done offends them that I can think and act instead of kneejerk and react. That's not a pretty sight when I do that.

[julieisafemme]

Ok this is a very personal pet peeve of mine about language and popular use of it. I hear lots of times people say "oh I am so OCD" about this or that. It bugs me for a few reasons. The first is the correct way to say it is "I am so OC" obsessive compulsive, not I am so obsessive compulsive disorder. The other reason is that I have OCD and have lived with it for most of my life. It is a lot more than cleaning. The pain that is associated with the compulsions (cleaning, hand washing, counting) is terrible. The obsessions that cause the compulsions are exhausting. I am mentally ill or crazy. I am reclaiming those words and often use the c word to describe myself (crazy). Having any kind of mental illness it stigmatizing. When I hear someone joking about being a fanatic housekeeper and equating that with OCD it makes me feel invisible.

[Arwen]

Originally Posted by julieisafemme

Ok this is a very personal pet peeve of mine about language and popular use of it. I hear lots of times people say "oh I am so OCD" about this or that. It bugs me for a few reasons. The first is the correct way to say it is "I am so OC" obsessive compulsive, not I am so obsessive compulsive disorder. The other reason is that I have OCD and have lived with it for most of my life. It is a lot more than cleaning. The pain that is associated with the compulsions (cleaning, hand washing, counting) is terrible. The obsessions that cause the compulsions are exhausting. I am mentally ill or crazy. I am reclaiming those words and often use the c word to describe myself (crazy). Having any kind of mental illness it stigmatizing. When I hear someone joking about being a fanatic housekeeper and equating that with OCD it makes me feel invisible.

Thank you for saying this. This is a term I actually use more than necessary. I use it in a joking way a lot. I will work on remembering that this is not a toss-away word but a very real affliction for some people in this world.

So thanks for taking the time and having the courage to put that out there, Julie.

[Andrew, Jr.]

I struggle all the time with oral communication. It takes me alot of courage to post online here. What I say and what I mean sometimes comes out wrong, or what I mean is read differently by others, and they get so angry. It boggles my mind because I really am lost on what is so upsetting. And I can pretty much guarantee that I don't mean any harm by what I am saying. I just struggle with the words & reading comprehension. Dyslexia does that to me.

That is what my real life is like. That is why I got and still get called retard. I hate some words like stupid, lazy, and retard. I also hate confrontation. It just is that people don't understand me. I feel so isolated sometimes. And sometimes I just stop trying. It is one thing to be forgiving. It is another to really understand.

I hope this makes sense.

Andrew

[Dragonfly]

As human beings, no one can be perfect. Things get said and misunderstood. IMHO it is the reaction given to those mistakes. By others who hear/ read the mistakes and also by the person saying it to begin with. It isnt censorship to express your thoughts and opinions with consideration for other's feelings. It isn't about political correct to express offense to things and explain why. What causes a breakdown in communication, feeling welcome or safe to post, and comfortable to be valued for your opinion is the Over-reactions to it. There is a good way to handle bad feelings I think....

Andrew: I hope more tolerance and understanding (with loving compassion) flows your way than the name calling... and I wish for you to find a way to allow the positive people to out shine the negative when you look around you....