Top 10 Lesbian Myths

[AtLast]

Originally Posted by BullDog

As to bed death (whether it be lesbian and/or butch femme or any other), I agree with AtLast, I think it has more to do with communication, willingness to keep an intimate relationship growing and thriving, and a missing emotional connection more than having to do with actual sex. Then there is just all the issues of life that have to be dealt with, which leave people with not a lot of time and energy.

Yup... and although most people don't want to face it, we do slow down as we age and sex is included in the slow down (so is a wonderful history of creativity). Plus, medications/disability can have an effect on libido. Although, I have to add that "seniors" are far more sexually active than "myth" dictates as well!! Ut, Oh, I feel an attack of ageism and able-body privilege (with coming over me..

And there are many more "measures" of sexual activity than penis-to-vagina methods. The fact is butch/femme cock follows a very straight, heterosexual mode of sexually interpretation. Which is why I personally use accessorize, accessory for butch cock for myself. And toy as well (although not much anymore). No, cock doesn't set me off into defensive feminist mode- I just figure we all have our own terms we prefer. And if a femme I am intimate with wants to call it a cock, I don't care! Our mutual pleasure and satisfaction is what counts

Although, I am fond of “Where’s the toy box, Babe, I want to pick something out?” Oh, Geez, I am not dominant enough, either, I bet. I get off on her (a femme) making decisions around sex! Damn, there goes that butch card, again. Sorry, I do tire of so damn many of the sexual parameters we seem to have.

Oye! Maybe my feelings have something to do with raising a heterosexual male through the teenage years… believe me, I really got tired of cock-centricity… dunno… maybe we should have a poll on this and see what other parents of male kid would say- with the inclusion of a trans related item… who knows….

I am not trying to be snarky, I really am trying to infuse humor into this conversation. When I am able to laugh at myself, I end up seeing things much more clearly, plus I stop taking myself so seriously which calms me down…. I really don’t have a problem with whatever and however anyone wants to embrace (or not) butch-cock or just plain cock. Just please don’t judge my own personal thoughts about it or give me another identifier to deal with! I am as much lesbian as I am butch.

[LipstickLola]

I appreciate the gravity of this subject, but can I just say, there was no death in my bed this weekend

Oh, and the point is? two lesbians, mutual gratification, no issue over who did what to whom or when and how and...........and it was real sex, without a real label I guess?

[Julie]

Originally Posted by AtLastHome

Yup... and although most people don't want to face it, we do slow down as we age and sex is included in the slow down (so is a wonderful history of creativity). Plus, medications/disability can have an effect on libido. Although, I have to add that "seniors" are far more sexually active than "myth" dictates as well!! Ut, Oh, I feel an attack of ageism and able-body privilege (with coming over me..

And there are many more "measures" of sexual activity than penis-to-vagina methods. The fact is butch/femme cock follows a very straight, heterosexual mode of sexually interpretation. Which is why I personally use accessorize, accessory for butch cock for myself. And toy as well (although not much anymore). No, cock doesn't set me off into defensive feminist mode- I just figure we all have our own terms we prefer. And if a femme I am intimate with wants to call it a cock, I don't care! Our mutual pleasure and satisfaction is what counts

Although, I am fond of “Where’s the toy box, Babe, I want to pick something out?” Oh, Geez, I am not dominant enough, either, I bet. I get off on her (a femme) making decisions around sex! Damn, there goes that butch card, again. Sorry, I do tire of so damn many of the sexual parameters we seem to have.

Oye! Maybe my feelings have something to do with raising a heterosexual male through the teenage years… believe me, I really got tired of cock-centricity… dunno… maybe we should have a poll on this and see what other parents of male kid would say- with the inclusion of a trans related item… who knows….

I am not trying to be snarky, I really am trying to infuse humor into this conversation. When I am able to laugh at myself, I end up seeing things much more clearly, plus I stop taking myself so seriously which calms me down…. I really don’t have a problem with whatever and however anyone wants to embrace (or not) butch-cock or just plain cock. Just please don’t judge my own personal thoughts about it or give me another identifier to deal with! I am as much lesbian as I am butch.

ALH,

I do really enjoy your postings. They are generally well thought out. I am having trouble with this one.

I identify as a Femme - I identify as a Lesbian - I identify as a Woman - I identify as a Momma to 3 male son's raised in a Lesbian household.

You wrote: "The fact is butch/femme cock follows a very straight, heterosexual mode of sexually interpretation."

Dammit, this has set me off. I am not even sure how to address it, because this type of talk coming from you, is leaving me feeling a tad unbalanced.

FEMME Here - who loves the Butch Cock! There is nothing straight/heterosexual about me. Not in the way I make love, fuck, love, raise children or live my life. Yet... I would be rather lost without the Butch COCK in my life. I do not want the Dildo - I want the BUTCH COCK. I am really horrified by your statement here.

My son's (all three of them) know their Momma is a Femme and their Momma loves Butches. They also understand about the Butch Cock, because in our household, we discuss everything. They did not have a bio male father to educate them about sex. They had a Femme Momma who taught them about oral sex, taught them how to fuck, talked to them about the female orgasm through hours of open and honest conversation. Even they understand the difference between a butch cock and a dildo and they would NEVER think or believe there is anything heterosexual about their Momma or the Butch in their Momma's life.

Also, maybe I am not quite a senior yet - but I am approaching 50 and my body hurts as well. I sometimes find it hard to drag myself out of bed. However... Sex? Making Love? Fucking? Whatever you might call it. Wakes me up both physically and emotionally, and I am planning on having it wake me up till the day I close my eyes their final time. I cannot imagine not wanting or longing for that touch for the rest of my life.

I feel you have with your words, taken a beautiful dynamic and dirtied it. YES - to me, being categorized with a stereotypical heterosexual dynamic, is dirty to me.

I am sure you did not intend to come off snarky, but really it did come off that way, at least to me.

p.s. There are no facts when it comes to fucking or making love. The only facts are... When it comes to safe consensual sex - then there are facts.

[pajama]

Originally Posted by InfiniteFemme

Also, maybe I am not quite a senior yet - but I am approaching 50 and my body hurts as well. I sometimes find it hard to drag myself out of bed. However... Sex? Making Love? Fucking? Whatever you might call it. Wakes me up both physically and emotionally, and I am planning on having it wake me up till the day I close my eyes their final time. I cannot imagine not wanting or longing for that touch for the rest of my life.

I just wanted to comment to this a little. I completely understand what ALH originally meant when s/he (sorry forgot your pronoun, no disrespect intended) commented about libido changes. First with regards to medication...antidepresents are hell. Not only do they numb the sadness they numb all feelings including desire. Second, menopause without hormone replacement killed my libido. Anybody that knows me, is amazed to find out that before I corrected my pre-menopausal hormones I would go MONTHS without masturbating and over a year without sex. I know...unheard of.

So while I hope to have the libido I have now until the day I die, I understand that things happen to change that. Sometimes it's 'bed death', sometimes medications, sometimes emotions, sometimes hormones. But regretably it does happen.

And as to the butch/femme/butch-cock hetero relation....all I have to say is thank gods it IS NOT like hetero because no cis-male's easily deflated cock could ever keep up with me. (Sorry if I offended, that's really my only take on it because I don't pretend to understand butch cock.)

A

[AtLast]

Originally Posted by InfiniteFemme

ALH,

I do really enjoy your postings. They are generally well thought out. I am having trouble with this one.

I identify as a Femme - I identify as a Lesbian - I identify as a Woman - I identify as a Momma to 3 male son's raised in a Lesbian household.

You wrote: "The fact is butch/femme cock follows a very straight, heterosexual mode of sexually interpretation."

Dammit, this has set me off. I am not even sure how to address it, because this type of talk coming from you, is leaving me feeling a tad unbalanced.

FEMME Here - who loves the Butch Cock! There is nothing straight/heterosexual about me. Not in the way I make love, fuck, love, raise children or live my life. Yet... I would be rather lost without the Butch COCK in my life. I do not want the Dildo - I want the BUTCH COCK. I am really horrified by your statement here.

My son's (all three of them) know their Momma is a Femme and their Momma loves Butches. They also understand about the Butch Cock, because in our household, we discuss everything. They did not have a bio male father to educate them about sex. They had a Femme Momma who taught them about oral sex, taught them how to fuck, talked to them about the female orgasm through hours of open and honest conversation. Even they understand the difference between a butch cock and a dildo and they would NEVER think or believe there is anything heterosexual about their Momma or the Butch in their Momma's life.

Also, maybe I am not quite a senior yet - but I am approaching 50 and my body hurts as well. I sometimes find it hard to drag myself out of bed. However... Sex? Making Love? Fucking? Whatever you might call it. Wakes me up both physically and emotionally, and I am planning on having it wake me up till the day I close my eyes their final time. I cannot imagine not wanting or longing for that touch for the rest of my life.

I feel you have with your words, taken a beautiful dynamic and dirtied it. YES - to me, being categorized with a stereotypical heterosexual dynamic, is dirty to me.

I am sure you did not intend to come off snarky, but really it did come off that way, at least to me.

p.s. There are no facts when it comes to fucking or making love. The only facts are... When it comes to safe consensual sex - then there are facts.

I understand why and how this sets you off- I was not really intending what I think you believe.

For the record- I enjoy it all and am a lesbian of the b-F variety. I get tired, however, of how we often put things in narrow contexts sexually. I do personally get tired of the word cock and it brings some very heteronormative things up for me. My main problem was with touting butch cock- or any cock- with lesbian bed death. I hate the phrase lesbian bed death too- it is belittling and I think (especially in most of this conversation), goes to the never ending comparison between lesbian and straight sex. Ie., all you need is a good lay- meaning a man with an attached penis plunged into your vagina.

No, my use of accessory items (and it doesn't stop with dildoes- they are not the only “toys“ around!), has nothing to do with cocks! Never has, never will. Anything I nickname, in fact has a clit as part of it. It is just important to me to own my being a woman and honoring the wonder of female sexual anatomy. Maybe because of the era I am from in which women were referred to as such things as frigid, non-sexual, not even supposed to be sexual beings, bad if they did, too good, if they didn't, shouldn't play sports because we might hurt our female body parts, kept from certain professions and jobs... on and on- I am just sensitive about this stuff. But, honestly, I my "toys" are of the feminine because of how I have integrated gender-bending in my life. I choose to "bend" to the female/woman side of the equation because there has been so much taken from me in the past for being a woman- and a masculine woman. I also am tired of the lesbian-phobia I see so much of on B-F sites (it is much less so on the Planet, however). It bothers and hurts me as a woman and a butch.


I absolutely apologize to you or anyone else if I offended you. I really was not intending this. I do have strong feelings about the female as well as lesbian sex. I know I can react differently to some of this stuff, but, to not be who I am as a butch woman and how I relate to sexuality as a person just isn’t something I can over look. But, I will try to use different wording if I return to the Planet in the future.

I have no personal negative judgement of how everyone else sees this- or what terms they want to use. I especially think there could be some sensitive things that trans folks could have around this.

[BullDog]

The more I think about the butch-femme dynamic supposedly being more open to sex and the communication of sex, the more I disagree. In fact there appear to be far more "rules" to butch-femme sex and how it is supposed to be done and who is supposed to do what and what is supposed to be used (the almighty butch cock) than with lesbians (those not also identifying as butch or femme) where it's two women enjoying having sex together and where women are actually valued- as women and as sexual beings. I am a butch with a butch cock, but I really just have to shake my head over all of the perpetuation of lesbian stereotypes.

[LipstickLola]

Originally Posted by BullDog

The more I think about the butch-femme dynamic supposedly being more open to sex and the communication of sex, the more I disagree. In fact there appear to be far more "rules" to butch-femme sex and how it is supposed to be done and who is supposed to do what and what is supposed to be used (the almighty butch cock) than with lesbians (those not also identifying as butch or femme) where it's two women enjoying having sex together and where women are actually valued- as women and as sexual beings. I am a butch with a butch cock, but I really just have to shake my head over all of the perpetuation of lesbian stereotypes.

Yeah

*lesbian nodding head*

[Daywalker]

This all makes me wonder a bit, because all this time I thought
I was having 'Me' sex ~ 'My' sex...my own style, delivery, etc.


Not to say this hasn't been an interesting thread to follow.
I just cannot fathom categorizing mah sex.


I can say that Bed Death is something that can reincarnate.
For those who are experiencing this, if it's in your
heart to revive it...then don't give up.

[girl_dee]

Originally Posted by Daywalker

This all makes me wonder a bit, because all this time I thought
I was having 'Me' sex ~ 'My' sex...my own style, delivery, etc.


Not to say this hasn't been an interesting thread to follow.
I just cannot fathom categorizing mah sex.


I can say that Bed Death is something that can reincarnate.
For those who are experiencing this, if it's in your
heart to revive it...then don't give up.

I agree with this (Thank you Mr Day )... sex is defined by the TWO people having it.. Sex can happen in many ways and not just in bed during penetration.. its much more than that.. It is redefined with each new relationship for crying out loud. It's YOUR sex dammit, and no one should presume to know it. I really get tired of the general (straight) public assuming we are trying to duplicate straight couple sex.. hell that would be damn boring!

I think I need some angry sex now! GrrrrR($*@(#@

[Isadora]

The logic follows...bed death is a reason to leave an otherwise good relationship and leaving said relationship May be based on how you identify and what color and shape your cock may be... wow. hahahahahaha

menopause
medications
MS
Lupus
Rheumatoid Arthritis
Osteoarthritis
etc., etc., etc.,

All relationships go through periods of more and less sexual activity. Some of us choose ways to be sexual and keep our relationship (non monog, poly, serial monog, etc), some move on (finding someone who exactly meets their sexual needs (okay that made me laugh a little, too), some chose to fake it till you make it (been faked on, I dun like it myself) and some after a period of time renew their sexual activity. I love sex. I loved sex when I was an out femme lesbian in the 70's. I loved sex when I was a political rabid social worker femme lesbian in the 80's. I loved sex as a femme dyke in the 90's. I love sex now as a Queer Femme. Right this moment in time, I have making love and sex in an amazing way. Away from all labels of gender or queerness, I think the fluctuation of sexual activity is a pretty basic human physiological and emotional phenomena.

[Kobi]

Kobi now has "Old MacDonald Has A Farm"
stuck in her head thanks to you folks.....

....with a butch cock here and a femme cock there....
....here a cock, there a cock, everywhere a cock cock...

[LipstickLola]

Originally Posted by Kobi

Kobi now has "Old MacDonald Has A Farm"
stuck in her head thanks to you folks.....

....with a butch cock here and a femme cock there....
....here a cock, there a cock, everywhere a cock cock...

OMG, lmao......thanks, a LOT

[Martina]

LOL. Like InfiniteFemme, i sooo like the word. Butch COCK, femme COCK.

Yum, yum, yummy yum.

i can't imagine limiting my SEX life in some way because it might look heteronormative. i fought the sex wars in the eighties. i am done with that.

i don't defend my sex life. i enjoy it.

Originally Posted by Kobi

Kobi now has "Old MacDonald Has A Farm"
stuck in her head thanks to you folks.....

....with a butch cock here and a femme cock there....
....here a cock, there a cock, everywhere a cock cock...

[Kobi]

Kobi always finds it fascinating
how threads like this provide the opportunity
to see people in a whole new way.
Am taking notes too.....some things should never be forgotten

Carry on..........

[Julie]

It's pretty simple. We are all different. There are no two people who share identical desires. I am not so pleased there is all this stereotyping going on. I can only speak from my own experience as an older femme.

I came out as a Femme in 1979 and was partnered with a Butch. We did not follow any rules sexually. She beat the crap out of me almost daily. Thankfully, I did not judge all butches to beat their femmes.

I lived, loved and partnered with a Femme. I believe in this relationship, I felt quite the Lesbian and for me, lost so much of who I was. Sex, well -- It was just that. Sex. GOD... If she would have just slammed me up against the wall and taken me. Our sex life was traditional in every sense of the word. We experienced LDB pretty quick into the relationship. Without passion, this will happen. It happens with straight people too, as well as those of us in the B/F dynamic.

Since the ending of that relationship, I have only exclusively dated Butches. I am Femme - There is a dynamic which takes place between the butch in my life and myself. I am not subservient to my butch, nor do I follow any set of rules. Sexually... That is really between the butch I am sleeping with and myself, and they are not constructed of any rules, other than the ones we have negotiated and feel passionate about. My butch has their boundaries and I have mine. We love with respect.

I am not sure why we are criticizing one another here. Why we are fighting for our right to be better than the next. What really matters most. Each and every one of us should find that special person we want to spend our lives with. To experience the ultimate gift of love. To experience the ultimate gift of passion with your love. Of course, if you do not want love - but just want to fuck... Then really... Do it! Fuck and be Happy - Any which way you do it.

I love the term Butch Cock - I love the term Femme Cock - I love the term Cock. When I think of the anatomy of a bio male - I think Penis. In my world, Cock is reserved for me and my partner. Call it a Dildo, that's great - I called it a Dildo when I was in a femme/femme relationship. "Hey Rachel... Where's the Dildo?" Does it get any more romantic than that.

Julie

[Sachita]

Originally Posted by AtLastHome

I understand why and how this sets you off- I was not really intending what I think you believe.

For the record- I enjoy it all and am a lesbian of the b-F variety. I get tired, however, of how we often put things in narrow contexts sexually. I do personally get tired of the word cock and it brings some very heteronormative things up for me. My main problem was with touting butch cock- or any cock- with lesbian bed death. I hate the phrase lesbian bed death too- it is belittling and I think (especially in most of this conversation), goes to the never ending comparison between lesbian and straight sex. Ie., all you need is a good lay- meaning a man with an attached penis plunged into your vagina.

No, my use of accessory items (and it doesn't stop with dildoes- they are not the only “toys“ around!), has nothing to do with cocks! Never has, never will. Anything I nickname, in fact has a clit as part of it. It is just important to me to own my being a woman and honoring the wonder of female sexual anatomy. Maybe because of the era I am from in which women were referred to as such things as frigid, non-sexual, not even supposed to be sexual beings, bad if they did, too good, if they didn't, shouldn't play sports because we might hurt our female body parts, kept from certain professions and jobs... on and on- I am just sensitive about this stuff. But, honestly, I my "toys" are of the feminine because of how I have integrated gender-bending in my life. I choose to "bend" to the female/woman side of the equation because there has been so much taken from me in the past for being a woman- and a masculine woman. I also am tired of the lesbian-phobia I see so much of on B-F sites (it is much less so on the Planet, however). It bothers and hurts me as a woman and a butch.


I absolutely apologize to you or anyone else if I offended you. I really was not intending this. I do have strong feelings about the female as well as lesbian sex. I know I can react differently to some of this stuff, but, to not be who I am as a butch woman and how I relate to sexuality as a person just isn’t something I can over look. But, I will try to use different wording if I return to the Planet in the future.

I have no personal negative judgement of how everyone else sees this- or what terms they want to use. I especially think there could be some sensitive things that trans folks could have around this.

wow- I so get this. I struggled with this a long time. So conflicted and then so many labels. I'm not struggling any more, thank goodness. Thank you

[citybutch]

I don't know if this was listed (I am sure it was) but will list it anyway:

Lesbian Bed Death...

Big ole myth

[CherylNYC]

Originally Posted by AtLastHome

...

And there are many more "measures" of sexual activity than penis-to-vagina methods. The fact is butch/femme cock follows a very straight, heterosexual mode of sexually interpretation. Which is why I personally use accessorize, accessory for butch cock for myself. And toy as well (although not much anymore). No, cock doesn't set me off into defensive feminist mode- I just figure we all have our own terms we prefer. And if a femme I am intimate with wants to call it a cock, I don't care! Our mutual pleasure and satisfaction is what counts....

I don't want to pick on you, ALH. Your posts are usually so affirming, but this jumped out at me, too. The first two sentences of that paragraph remind me of a conversation I had with a lesbian acquaintance who was having trouble understanding why butches wanted to dress "like men". I took a deep breath and explained that butch women are no more trying to imitate men than men are trying to imitate butches. Women dress the way they feel comfortable, as do men, so why would a person assume that butch women are the ones doing the imitating?

When it comes to butch cock, why would butch/femme sex in which butch cock plays a starring roll be viewed as imitative of heterosexual sex? I'm a lesbian and that's how I have sex, so it's lesbian sex to me. Straight people can imitate us if they choose. That doesn't bother me a bit.

[Nat]

There is plenty of straight/heterosexual sex that goes beyond the recipe above as well.

Which for some reason reminds me of this song:

(warning - this is in no way work/family-appropriate. don't click on it if you're expecting it to be).

[Medusa]

I'll interject a little something here on my philosophy on Butch/Femme sex.

I think Butch/Femme sex is super-hot, gender-bending, "Queer as Fuck", writing-our-own-rules stuff. I think that just because we "insert tab 'a' into slot 'b'" that it does not mean we are mimicking Het relationships or "Biblical" sex.

I also tend to embrace Butch Cock as an extension of the self - not an extension of "het", because when a woman straps on and fucks another woman, there isn't really anything "Het" about that in my book. That's two women fucking each other. (or in other cases masculine-identified folks fucking another -identified person)

I think that even if the "cock" looks like a penis that it doesn't automatically default to a "Het" experience. It's rubber or silicone or (if you're real lucky) Vixskin and hopefully will be driven by an insanely talented Butch who will fuck you senseless. It's no more "Het" to me than a bottle of lube or a butt plug or nipple clamps.
And don't get me wrong, I don't think of Butch Cock as a "toy" or as a "device" but I also don't assign "Het" to it since I think that most of the people who tend to use them are more than likely Queer on some level.

I'm super tempted to start a "Butch/Femme Myths" thread and might do that hoping that the folks in this thread won't take it as something icky. I do tend to think of the thought that "Butch/Femme sex follows a Het dynamic" as a myth and that it often serves to diminish our dynamic, make it invisible, or to deny that Butch/Femme is NOT about who's the "man" and who's the "woman" in our relationships.

Good discussion.