Communication 101: The Good, The Bad, The Ugly

[Medusa]

Aside from the Arizona issue, because I'm speaking generally here, do we (the people on this site, the people we encounter, the humans on this earth) tend to ignore folks who say things like "ALL x, y, z group of people are X, Y, Z" when we are out in the real world more than when it happens on the Internet? Why or why not?

[Nat]

Originally Posted by Medusa

Aside from the Arizona issue, because I'm speaking generally here, do we (the people on this site, the people we encounter, the humans on this earth) tend to ignore folks who say things like "ALL x, y, z group of people are X, Y, Z" when we are out in the real world more than when it happens on the Internet? Why or why not?

I think the influence of post-modern thought has a lot to do with the elimination of generalizations like that. I think academics avoid this language more though the tendencies are filtering through the culture now. Gender and queer theory are really steeped in post-modern thought too - so I would guess our community tends to avoid this type of generalization more than average. There might be a certain amount of privilege difference between those who avoid "all people ____" statements and those who embrace them and I would guess there are generational differences too.

[Gemme]

Originally Posted by Medusa

A question for folks:

Is understanding the responsibility of the person wanting to be heard or the responsibility of the person listening?

Thoughts?

Both, just like it's the responsibility of both the pitcher and the catcher when striking out a player. Ideally, the parties would work in harmony to give and receive the message.

Originally Posted by Medusa

Aside from the Arizona issue, because I'm speaking generally here, do we (the people on this site, the people we encounter, the humans on this earth) tend to ignore folks who say things like "ALL x, y, z group of people are X, Y, Z" when we are out in the real world more than when it happens on the Internet? Why or why not?

I think we do. We are fully ensconced in our lives when we are not here and the reality of our lives, complete with obligations, bears a heavier weight than someone throwing generalizations around. I feel it's easier to dismiss them or to let it go when there are 1001 things going on right at your own doorstep, demanding your attention.

When we are here, for many, it's an escape or release from the levity of our reality and so, for many, this becomes an alternate reality and the loads of relevance and importance shift.

[katsarecool]

Great topic BTW and was happy to see it bumped!

I also have been on the net for 15 years and have learned a great deal about the positive ways to communicate in this medium. It is very different when talking to someone in RT.

I have learned to speak to someone through typing exactly as if we were having a face to face conversation. And repeating back to a poster what I thought I heard in hopes it would become clearer to me or perhaps I misunderstood.

I have learned that hammering home my own opinion does nothing but cause anger and resentment all around. I also learned to speak my truth quietly and that it is ok to walk away and it is not ok to always have the last word.

I also learned that once a debator gets angry and posts in an angry manner they have lost the debate and their audience.

I also learned to use "pull words" rather than "push words". Such as "it would be a good idea if you did this for that problem" vs "well you better, you have to, you should, you must do that". I also learned to stay on topic as much as possible and try not to be baited to off topics by someone who disagrees with me. Best to either futher make clear my position if unclear and then to just walk away.

And the 24 hour rule that has been mentioned when upset about a subject is awesome and works!!!! If I have to respond right away I do it in Word first, wait the day and go back and read what I wrote. Most of the time I won't post it.

Thanks for opening this thread and it is a good read indeed!

[Just_G]

I emailed the Serenity now link to a friend of mine....because we have had discussions along this line before. She emailed me back and asked which type of communication she felt I used and what kind I thought she used.

When I messaged her back, I said I see myself as a passive communicator and her as an aggressive communicator. Shit hit the fan! I didn't say that ALL of the things that describe that type of communication described her, yet she proceeded to tell me that if she is ANY of the things on that list to me, that I don't need her in my life. WTF?!

She also proceeded to ask me which she was; verbally or physically abusive towards me. I said neither....that is not one of the things I thought fit her that was under the "aggressive communication" list.

Now, she is pissed and offended. I thought that sharing the link with her would be a great topic of conversation for us to engage in. Guess not.

I don't know if I should try to discuss this any more with her or just let it go and let her be pissed. This is one of those times when I feel like I should not have said anything, but then I would have been being passive instead of trying to discuss something I thought we could talk about without something like this happening.

[Gemme]

Originally Posted by Just_G

I emailed the Serenity now link to a friend of mine....because we have had discussions along this line before. She emailed me back and asked which type of communication she felt I used and what kind I thought she used.

When I messaged her back, I said I see myself as a passive communicator and her as an aggressive communicator. Shit hit the fan! I didn't say that ALL of the things that describe that type of communication described her, yet she proceeded to tell me that if she is ANY of the things on that list to me, that I don't need her in my life. WTF?!

She also proceeded to ask me which she was; verbally or physically abusive towards me. I said neither....that is not one of the things I thought fit her that was under the "aggressive communication" list.

Now, she is pissed and offended. I thought that sharing the link with her would be a great topic of conversation for us to engage in. Guess not.

I don't know if I should try to discuss this any more with her or just let it go and let her be pissed. This is one of those times when I feel like I should not have said anything, but then I would have been being passive instead of trying to discuss something I thought we could talk about without something like this happening.

Hindsight is 20/20.

Perhaps, if something like this should occur in the future, tell your friend what type of communicator YOU think YOU are and ask him/her what they feel is their communication style and then take the conversation from there. Maybe ask how you can be a better communicator with them.

It's very true about the importance of wording something right. I think she heard blame instead of a search for improvement. Defensive tools, ENGAGE! Once those walls come up, the ears close. I know when my feelers get all bent out of shape, everything gets sucked inward and I tend to focus on how hurt I am and how what so and so said made me feel. I'm not concerned at that point about the other person's feelings or intent. At least not until after I've thought things through a bit.

At this point, I'd let her cool off for a little while. Not too long. Maybe email or write her and say that you didn't mean to sound accusatory, but were looking to learn how to communicate with her better. Maybe she'll be more open to discuss it then.

Good luck!

[JustJo]

Originally Posted by Just_G

I emailed the Serenity now link to a friend of mine....because we have had discussions along this line before. She emailed me back and asked which type of communication she felt I used and what kind I thought she used.

When I messaged her back, I said I see myself as a passive communicator and her as an aggressive communicator. Shit hit the fan! I didn't say that ALL of the things that describe that type of communication described her, yet she proceeded to tell me that if she is ANY of the things on that list to me, that I don't need her in my life. WTF?!

She also proceeded to ask me which she was; verbally or physically abusive towards me. I said neither....that is not one of the things I thought fit her that was under the "aggressive communication" list.

Now, she is pissed and offended. I thought that sharing the link with her would be a great topic of conversation for us to engage in. Guess not.

I don't know if I should try to discuss this any more with her or just let it go and let her be pissed. This is one of those times when I feel like I should not have said anything, but then I would have been being passive instead of trying to discuss something I thought we could talk about without something like this happening.

This is the primary challenge that I have in communicating with aggressive communicators...because, in my experience, they don't hear feedback as feedback and a topic for discussion...but as criticism or an attack that they must defend against.

I think Gemme's advice is good...and I hope it works for you.

For me, the longer I live, the more tired I am of tip-toeing around aggressive communicators while they are stomping all over me. I prefer to spend my time with those who will really have a discussion.

These days...I tend to say "I intended this as something we could talk about...not as an attack on you. When and if you want to talk...I'd be happy to." And then I walk away (physically and/or emotionally).

It isn't the best technique, I know...but at this point it's all I can do.

Best of luck.

[Just_G]

I kind of did just that. I mentioned that I brought it up as a discussion topic and that I was not saying she IS aggressive, but that the way she communicates in conversations is more like what is described by that link for aggressive communication. We have talked about the aggressive communication thing before; like the fact she was in debate club in highschool and sometimes that is how she approaches some conversations....in a "I am going to tell you what I think, you can say what you want, but it's not gonna matter" kind of way.

I think I need some time to catch my breath. I do NOT like confrontation. I like to actually TALK, and not get all worked up til my chest is pounding.

Thank you both for your input....I really do take to heart what you have said!

[Nat]

It sounds like you stumbled across a source of shame for her. If somebody told me I was an aggressive communicator, I would be all ears and want to know more. Or maybe she was being mean to you.

[Blade]

For me it is harder to communicate online than in person. In person one can see my expression and feed off of body language. A few years back I said something like "you go girl" or "I hear ya girl" something like that to someone online and she came unglued. I was stunned. Later someone who knew me in RT explained to me that she knows I used that phrase all the time, but to this other femme it was like an insult. So just using this as an example I had to almost learn to communicate online like a different language.

I've also had people clean my clock over a post, where they interpreted what I said way differently than was my intent. We are not from the same places, or families, or had the same lifes experiences. Therefore we don't communicate the same way to begin with. Probably communication is a learned behavior, unless it is something you have worked on personally as an adult.

I had never heard of passive-aggressive in my life until the forums....chuckling of course there are many words I'd never heard of before internet. Most of those words are labeling words which a large majority of us say we hate labeling words.

Funny thing is now with a little online experience under my belt...well yeah I still stumble sometimes and get questioned about the way I've worded something, but the funny thing is how I see newbies come on and watch some of them post and the whole time I'm thinking OOoooo I bet so and so is about to clean their clock. Why do I not clean their clock or call them out. Well it's just not in my nature to be combative to begin with. To be honest I'm just not that sensitive about others words.

To me tone and body language mean a lot. I don't talk loud, I don't yell at people and it is rare that I use a hateful tone of voice. I do believe you have to have a certain respect for your audience and they for you. If you don't have a certain respect you've lost your audience from the beginning, which possibly means you have both potentially lost out.

Anyway just my .02 worth

[Just_G]

Originally Posted by Nat

It sounds like you stumbled across a source of shame for her. If somebody told me I was an aggressive communicator, I would be all ears and want to know more. Or maybe she was being mean to you.

Nat, you hit the nail right on the head! I think that me being honest with her...in a very explanatory way (that's the passive communicator in me..always trying to explain everything..see?) was taken as me being snarky. I hate that it was taken that way, but like Blade said, it is hard to communicate via written word as opposed to spoken word.

One thing that has really helped me to not get defensive in situations like this is that I will read whatever it is in several different ways/tones. Once I do that, I don't have that knee-jerk reaction...instead, I am coming from an understanding place. Not all people do that.

She is the one that told me she doesn't like the way I communicate or respond in conversations...I could have taken that the wrong way and pulled in to my turtle shell; but I didn't. Instead, I have ordered a couple of books on how to communicate better. Even though what she said kind of hurt my feelings, I took it to heart and really thought about it. I am trying to better myself in this area. I am trying to grow from what she told me.

Her reaction to what I said was the complete opposite and she is now in HER turtle shell....still not speaking to me. I guess I should take this for what it is and just keep myself moving forward. If she wants to talk; I now know that I need to handle it with extreme caution. Lesson learned.