For the T-Femmes and SOFFAs...

[julieisafemme]

Well Bit I can't go into the particulars as the rules of the workshops were what was shared was private. All I can tell you is that there were queers of all types mentioned. No one said a word about straight people.

OOHHHH EARTHQUAKE!!!! As I was typing. Scary!!

I am not quite clear on why you are invested in negating what was shared by these trans men and women? I am simply relating to you my experience. It is not a feeling my partner has experienced, nor is it an issue in our relationship. It was eye opening to me that this does occur.

This thread is for transensual femmes as well as SOFFAs. I am a SOFFA. A transensual butch could be a SOFFA. I think the discussion should be for all who love and support gender variant people.

Originally Posted by Bit

I've been staying out of this thread... it pushed some big buttons for me and I needed a break. We'll see hopw far I get this time. *rueful look*



That was my point, Julie. Bent was arguing that MY identity IS contingent on that; my question was rhetorical, really, since you've posted before and at length about how you identify.... I wanted him to look at you and look at me and see that we are the same that way, that NEITHER of us has based our identities on our partners.



Again, you and I, we are the same--although I wish I had been this concisely articulate about it. You have just defined "Transensual" in the EXACT manner that I use it.



No, I don't think so. You might consider yourself heteronormative, but I sure don't... I live with a Butch, how can I be heteronormative? Everything I do is done with exquisite consciousness that I am NOT "just like a straight girl"--and that's deliberate. I think Queer, I live Queer, I love Queer.



Maybe this is because they came to a stopping place before I did. Maybe they are content to simply say "Butch" or "Masculine" or whatever. I myself was once content to say "Lesbian" and after that content to say "Femme." But my life took me down a path that surprised, startled, and sometimes frightened me, a path that ultimately led me to the great joy of knowing myself as a whole person.

Being Transensual is about ME. It's about finally decoding my Owner's Manual, finally understanding who and what *I* am.



No, don't think so. Any post that has such a succinct definition of Transensual in it--even though you choose not to use the word--cannot be a derail in a soffa thread.



I meant to make you both laugh; glad it worked. And again I say, just as the question was Julie's to answer, it is also MINE to answer. No one else may define Transensual for me.



Drew, you are my hero for that wonderful post. Thank you, thank you.

You are not the only guy who has said that you feel on the periphery in B-F space. You are not the only guy who has said that you sometimes feel a Femme might be interested in spite of your being trans.

When I was single, I put my whole "label" in my profile, Queer Transensual Stonefemme, because I wanted to let Transmen and soffas know there was space for them at the B-F table. I wanted to be a visible marker that said, "Yes, Trans community and allies, you are not alone here; there is a place for us all."



I think it's important to back up here Julie, and separate out the two parts of your post. I understand that the Transmen felt fetishized, and of course that's horribly painful. It does immediately silence anyone who wants to talk about all the positive things she finds in her lover--because of course being supportive and caring, we can't bring ourselves to add to that pain.

But just who, exactly, did the fetishizing? Did they have concrete examples? Because I will tell you truly, hon, I have only EVER in seven years heard one Transman talk about one personal bad experience with Femmes; he overheard two idiots boasting about putting notches on their lipstick cases. Yes indeed, that was fetishizing, and distasteful---BUT they were boasting at the same time about the BUTCHES who were also notches on the lipstick case, so yanno, I have to think that was about the Femmes themselves, and NOT about the Transman, even though he took it extremely personally.

EVERY example of fetishization I have heard from Transmen after that has either been from Queers of one stripe or another who do not partner with Transmen, or straight people who, as you went on to say, "a long time to get past what bits someone has.".... I have not heard any Transmen speak directly about Transensual Femmes (or any other soffa) fetishizing them.

And now I must split my post... broke the character limit... oops.

[Bit]

{{{{{{{{{{{Julie}}}}}}}}}}}}}

I'm glad you were okay during the earthquake. My apologies for taking so long to answer you--I kept timing out when I tried to sign in, and finally decided just to wait until after the server migration was complete.

Originally Posted by julieisafemme

Well Bit I can't go into the particulars as the rules of the workshops were what was shared was private.

That isn't what I asked, hon. I only asked if they gave concrete examples, you know, "this and such happened to me last month" or whatever. I don't have any need to know WHAT happened to them, only to know IF something concrete happened.

Originally Posted by julieisafemme

I am not quite clear on why you are invested in negating what was shared by these trans men and women?

I have no interest in negating anyone, honey. I was asking you for information. I was asking you if your experience listening to them talk about fetishizing matched mine or not... because my personal experience is that only one Transman had any concrete example of being fetishized, and all the rest of them who threw the accusation at me said that what was fetishizing was merely that I was attracted to them at all. They said it was fetishizing for me to be attracted to a Transman because I am not a straight woman.

In other words, it was not their personal experiences of being fetishized that were driving the accusation--and I never heard these particular Transmen give any concrete examples of being fetishized--it was their belief that "only a straight woman can properly love a Transman" that led them to say "all Transensual Femmes are therefore fetishists."

This bothers the hell out of me and it hurts like hell too, so that's why I asked you: is this your experience also, or is your experience different? Did the Transmen you listened to give concrete examples of being fetishized by Transensual Femmes, or were they talking about a belief that only a straight woman could love them properly without fetishizing them?

Originally Posted by julieisafemme

This thread is for transensual femmes as well as SOFFAs. I am a SOFFA. A transensual butch could be a SOFFA. I think the discussion should be for all who love and support gender variant people.

Of course you are, honey; all of us who are either partners or supporters can call ourselves SOFFAs. *kinda puzzled; you already knew that, right?* I'm not sure why you feel left out of this thread, why you need to say out loud that you belong here. This thread was started for everyone who is an ally of some kind or a partner of anyone who is Transsexual.

I repeat to you, there is no need for you to take on a label that you don't feel comfortable with. Other people don't have the right to pigeonhole you for easy identification by slapping the Transensual Femme label on you. You choose what makes you comfortable, what fits right for you.

Not only are there Transensual Butches--I noticed you mentioned that in another post--but I am married to one. I would NEVER in a million years say that Gryph "fetishizes" any of his past partners, whether they were Butches, Transmen, or Transwomen. I will say that he sees who a person is and who a person can be, and offers his support for their journey.

In that, I think he is no different from the majority of us who partner with Transpeople. I think that is something the majority of us all can do, and are doing, no matter what our labels might be. You might choose a different way to describe yourself than I do, or than he does, but in the end we are more alike than different, and what matters is who and how we love, rather than what people call us.

[Jess]

OK. I am remiss in my queerspeak. I have been around for years and have seen the term SOFFA but never knew what it stood for.

Someone toss and old dog a bone here?
Thanks.

[SuperFemme]

Originally Posted by Jess

OK. I am remiss in my queerspeak. I have been around for years and have seen the term SOFFA but never knew what it stood for.

Someone toss and old dog a bone here?
Thanks.

Significant Others, Friends, Family and Allies.

[Jess]

Originally Posted by SuperFemme

Significant Others, Friends, Family and Allies.

Thank you kindly!

[Soft*Silver]

you know, I F**king hate labels. I come from a time when the word LESBIAN wasnt even spoken out loud and now we are cyberbating over what we should call ourselves when we look in a mirror.

I am an old crow. Silver hair and wrinkles. I have seen alot happen over my 5+ decades in the rainbow culture. This generation of LGBTQ is going to go down in history/herstory as the one who out-defined themselves. This generation is so out, that they need to cloak their visibility (an oxi-moron, I know) with words embodied with massive power, so the labels are minutely defined. These labels then begin to look like carefully cut precious diamonds. Such value, such worth...so priceless are these labels....that we will gnash and tear apart each selection so that the evolution of the labels will be true to who we are..individually and as a rainbow culture.

well, go right ahead. But dont rain on my parade while you do this.

I am a femme, in a relationship with someone who considers himself TG moving to FtM. When he is done transitioning and living fully as the male he is, we will be living a heterosexual lifestyle.

He has it easy with labels. I, on the other hand, do not feel so lucky. I am a lesbian who has been told I should call myself queer. I just hate that word. Its fine for the young ones to use it, but it doesnt seem to go all that well with my cane and flat shoes. You should have seen my family when I told them the "word of the day" for me is queer. Their eyes bugged out. Somehow Aunt Bea doesnt look like a queer...lol. When my daughter is asked what I am, she simply says "mom"...sometimes we forget the answer isnt always in the direction of the question. Sometimes its in the direction of the answer-er.


This is what it boils down to for me. When I go to my gynocologist and she asks me if I am sexually active and I say yes...do I go into the whole damn orgasmic history of me falling in love with a transman?

No. I just say I am.

I came here because its the only thread I have seen on three sites for femmes who are involved with FtM/TG folks. Thats me. THATS who I am. And I need the support of other femmes who are involved with FtM/TG folks. You all can argue till the cows come home over what label needs to pasted on me, while I sit here and wait for someone to start talking about support...and if no one does, then I will just move on....

just my 2cents worth...

[SFFemmePrincess]

Originally Posted by softness

I came here because its the only thread I have seen on three sites for femmes who are involved with FtM/TG folks. Thats me. THATS who I am. And I need the support of other femmes who are involved with FtM/TG folks.

I'm glad you came here, and I am glad for everyone else who has come here.

Thank you for your post, I think it's about time we/I brought this thread back to where it started and that was a place for support.

So I was wondering how other femme's have navigated the family when it comes to coming out to them about your relationship with a Trans Guy. I have found it difficult because it's almost like coming out all over again. In some cases, just when my family was getting used to the whole lesbian thing, now I'm throwing something even harder for them to understand at them. So what has that been like for you??