Did the Pakistan government know Osama bin Laden was there?

[The_Lady_Snow]

Toughy, you assumed I had no white, and if we want to get to the nitty gritty I can't not even in a census claim it since I am of Hispanic descent as they so kindly put it, when I check the census box I check what I am and that is Hispanic or better yet LATINO/A. Just because I was or have some form of white origin in me (btw I don't know exactly since the deed was not consentual) that doesn't mean I was raised, or am I culturally so, I was born in Mexico, my mother is mexican and so is my other family, now the man who raised me is white, he is my father the only one I know of. I don't have to explain why I use LATINA as my label just the same way I don't ask you to explain to me why at one time you use she or others hy.

Do you not see how disrespectful and ugly that is? It's who I am I am LATINA the other blood or heritage that is in my DNA doesn't erase the fact I was raised as such, born as such and kept as such and yet my labels and how I choose to identify are continously questioned by people of lighter skin than myself. I don't even get to choose to use white if I wanted to Tougy and you care to know why?

Cause for some fucked up unknown reason people who are lighter than I and see my darker skin *automatically* assume I don't even belong here or hthat I am not American.

I am, I live in the United States of America, I am a LATINA woman, not a brown woman, my name is Snow and I am a LATINA woman who happens to have a dash of non LATINO blood in me yet I still can't identify as so because not only do caucasians not allow it, neither does a goverment when counting the great people of this nation.

I don't feel this is a derailment of the thread, the racial slurs that have been used and have been thrown in clear print, yet for some fucked up unknown reason people want to jump down on me for not allowing them?

Do you not see the ridiculousness of that?

Should I just continue to sit silent and not derail a thread when racist comments are being made? I just don't understand how much more (even if it ONE POC saying please don't) this community expects for POC to take.

Is that the goal, to have all POC silenced regardless of how small and simple the request and for the sake of not derailing?

Is this for realz?

Originally Posted by Toughy

I will say this directly to Snow: You have always identified yourself as a POC, latina to be specific. You always speak as a POC in these conversations. What else would you have me believe about you? Are you telling me now that you are white or mixed race? I don't understand. My beliefs about you were not created in a vacumn without you. I was asking for clarification, not being disrespectful. It is ALWAYS right to ask for clarification of anyone if you don't understand something they are saying or asking.

As far as I know, there is no beef between me and Snow. We disagree from time to time about some subjects. For Me that does NOT add up to a personal beef. June, can you clarify for me why you think I have a personal beef with Snow? You and I have never had a conversation about Snow.

I addressed Snow because she is the (only?) one who has broached the subject of using 'crayola colors' when refering to POC. My questions and statements were about clarification of what she has requested......it was not a personal attack. In retrospect, I should have stated my questions and comments differently and left Snow's name out of it. I should have addressed the concepts only as I am doing below.

This is about terminology when refering to people and their ancestral origins. It has been stated that using the colors black, yellow, red, brown is not ok for white folks. However it is apparently ok to call folks of AngloSaxon/Europeon descent white. That is not a logical position. If white folks can't call POC by colors, then POCs can't call Europeans white. If brown is wrong, then white is wrong. It is accepted that racial slurs of any sort are wrong. It's wrong to call a black person the 'n' word and it's wrong to call a white person 'whitey' or 'honkey'. Crayola colors are no different. Respect is a two way street.

I also must point out something that is glaringly obvious to me. It is absolutely not logical to say don't call POC by color. The term POC means People of Color. The term itself is about skin color other than white.

I don't believe creating a minefield of acceptable/unacceptable words is useful. I know plenty of folks from all kinds of ancestry that don't have any issue with crayola colors. There are black folk in this country who do NOT claim Africa as their ancestry and don't want to be called African Americans. I know black folk from Brazil, who speak Portuguese, that would be way pissed if you called them African. I know white folks from Africa who consider themselves Africans. Africans can be white or black. US citizens can be black and from anywhere in the world. Same goes for brown and red and yellow and white.

I also would make a request. I think this conversation needs to happen in a respectful way. It does not belong in a thread about Pakistan's knowlege about bin Laden. Perhaps a new thread could be started about terminology and the appropriate posts could be put in it.....we need the context so future readers will see where it came from.