Clothes do not Maketh the butch ....

05-09-2011, 02:11 PM

It's funny, I met up with a gaydargirl I've chatted with for years the other day and she thought it highly amusing, and was surprised for some reason, that I was wearing a pink tshirt. Apparently only girls wear pink!

Apocalipstic · 05-09-2011, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Incubus

It's funny, I met up with a gaydargirl I've chatted with for years the other day and she thought it highly amusing, and was surprised for some reason, that I was wearing a pink tshirt. Apparently only girls wear pink!

When I was little I insisted on a blue bedroom. Everyone was shocked and stunned.

Colors are just colors...seeems so silly!

Jomore · 05-14-2011, 07:52 AM

Clothes really matter to me. I'm an unrepentant Dandy.
Clothes help me to define myself and who I am in the world. Whether we like it or not, our clothing signals to others certain things about who we are.

Femmes I know would look pretty silly in the kind of clothing I prefer - because it just doesn't fit who they are.

Whether I'm wearing jeans, Tshirt and leather jacket, suit with button down shirt, or a mixture of tailored women's and men's clothing, it always looks just butch enough for me to feel comfortable with.
Clothing is our second skin - so I always want to feel comfortable in my skin.

Corkey · 05-14-2011, 08:18 AM

Clothes don't define who we are. They are but a expression of our outer shell. I am a human being, I wear cloths that I am comfortable in. Period.

The_Lady_Snow · 05-14-2011, 08:37 AM

I don't find anything "silly" about a femme who chooses to wear certain clothing?

Can you clarify what you meant?

DomnNC · 05-14-2011, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

I don't find anything "silly" about a femme who chooses to wear certain clothing?

Can you clarify what you meant?

I don't get that either Snow. My wife could wear a pair of jeans, t-shirt and leather jacket and rock the hella out of them and was still just as femme as she was when wearing a dress or business suit. That statement was kinda silly in and of itself I think.

Miss Scarlett · 05-14-2011, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jomore

Clothes really matter to me. I'm an unrepentant Dandy.
Clothes help me to define myself and who I am in the world. Whether we like it or not, our clothing signals to others certain things about who we are.

Femmes I know would look pretty silly in the kind of clothing I prefer - because it just doesn't fit who they are.

Whether I'm wearing jeans, Tshirt and leather jacket, suit with button down shirt, or a mixture of tailored women's and men's clothing, it always looks just butch enough for me to feel comfortable with.
Clothing is our second skin - so I always want to feel comfortable in my skin.

Jomore, i take exception to your post.

i get it that to you femmes would look "pretty silly" in the type of clothes you prefer. But this femme is an extremely feminine woman who can and does wear the very type of clothing you prefer and neither look nor feel silly. In fact, i've been told that the combination of jeans, t-shirt and leather jacket looks pretty darn good on me.

So, you're saying that to you all femmes should dress a certain way? And does this mean that because a don't dress in that certain way she cannot possibly be a femme as far as you are concerned? Are we not all allowed to feel comfortable in our respective skins free from the dictum of others?

Please do enlighten us...

Jomore · 05-14-2011, 09:29 PM

Ahhh Ms Scarlett!!! Thank you for your vigilance! But not I prefaced the remark with the words "femmes I KNOW" (emphasis added) not you, not all femmes, just a select group of high femmes of my personal accquaintance. I was actually trying to make that distinction, and not make sweeping generalizations, I'm sure you'd look fine in some of my clothes, wanna come over sand lay dressups wimme?

sorry babe, but nothing to get flakey about, OK? I'm just a dumb ol' Butch with poor Internet social skills, still learning, not very savvy.
Suitably chastened, I won't say anything more on the subject.
Sorry
Jo

Bit · 05-14-2011, 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jomore

....I prefaced the remark with the words "femmes I KNOW" (emphasis added) not you, not all femmes, just a select group of high femmes of my personal accquaintance. I was actually trying to make that distinction, and not make sweeping generalizations....

I don't know if it helps any, but that's how I read your post--that you were speaking about a very specific group of femmes, people you know personally.

I know a lot of femmes who wouldn't be caught dead in men's clothes.

Martina · 05-14-2011, 11:49 PM

i am not what i wear.

chefhottie25 · 05-14-2011, 10:12 PM

i can relate to your point about the importance of clothing and how they define us in the world. it is a part of our skin. my clothing selections are very important to me...they help convey my image and my understanding of who i am. i also wanted to respond to your comment about femmes in "butch" clothing. i think some femmes can totally rock "butch" clothing. it brings femme style to idea of what is considered the butch look. it is classic gender bending and that is always positive. questioning and pushing perceived ideas about what is butch and what is femme. deconstructing those binary roles opens up our freedom of expression.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jomore

Clothes really matter to me. I'm an unrepentant Dandy.
Clothes help me to define myself and who I am in the world. Whether we like it or not, our clothing signals to others certain things about who we are.

Femmes I know would look pretty silly in the kind of clothing I prefer - because it just doesn't fit who they are.

Whether I'm wearing jeans, Tshirt and leather jacket, suit with button down shirt, or a mixture of tailored women's and men's clothing, it always looks just butch enough for me to feel comfortable with.
Clothing is our second skin - so I always want to feel comfortable in my skin.

Gayla · 05-14-2011, 10:49 PM

Umm. What's "butch" clothing?

theoddz · 05-14-2011, 09:07 AM

I have to share this here about clothes......

There's 2 very nice people I know at work. One is a guy I work with and the Lady is one of my nurse friends who works over on the Psych ward. I recently have been playing "matchmaker" between these two because I think they'd get on famously together. Both have wonderful personalities and they're both Creole, from the Texas/Louisiana areas. They like the same foods, the same kinds of music and they come from similar cultures and backgrounds, so what's not to love???

Now, the woman...my friend Pauline, is a really outgoing, kind, caring and social person and she has this wild 'n crazy sense of humor. She's a dear woman to her very core!! When I was first telling them each about the other, Pauline turns and says to me, about Joe:

"He better not be wearing no K-Mart clothes!!!"

Bah ahahahahahahahaha

Just WHAT, exactly, are "K-Mart clothes"????

People are funny.

~Theo~

Silverseastar · 05-14-2011, 11:35 AM

Clothes are just clothes. Or are they?

In some senses they reflect an inner identity I think. How we wear them and our choices of what to wear do reflect in my opinion an internal state of mind. Now just because I think that does not mean I have judgement around what that internal state of mind may be and how it's expressed (i.e. I really don't judge what you wear but I may not be attracted to it either).

It's a nice idea to think we as a society do not make judgements about appearance but in fact we use those judgements to discriminate every day. As a femme, I'm often and regularly seen as non-lesbian out in the world simply based on appearance. I need to interact differently to make the less obvious distinguishing parts of my identity clear.

So if you want to be "seen" as a butch, there are certainly markers that others look for. Clothing can be one of them. It's not the only one however.

EnderD_503 · 05-14-2011, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silverseastar

Clothes are just clothes. Or are they?

In some senses they reflect an inner identity I think. How we wear them and our choices of what to wear do reflect in my opinion an internal state of mind. Now just because I think that does not mean I have judgement around what that internal state of mind may be and how it's expressed (i.e. I really don't judge what you wear but I may not be attracted to it either).

It's a nice idea to think we as a society do not make judgements about appearance but in fact we use those judgements to discriminate every day. As a femme, I'm often and regularly seen as non-lesbian out in the world simply based on appearance. I need to interact differently to make the less obvious distinguishing parts of my identity clear.

Yes, people may judge. Does that make it helpful as far as progressing society? Not particularly. So shouldn't we, instead, be working on breaking stereotypes of what a "lesbian looks like" or what a "butch looks like"? That seems more productive than just accepting what society thinks certain people should wear/look like. I'm not sure what you mean by interact differently, though. Do you mean simply telling people you're a lesbian if they ask? If so, then I'd agree. But if it means changing how usually interact with people just to fit a certain paradigm, then I'd disagree. I think we need to stomp on all physical and behavioural stereotypes for certain groups of people. If you fit them, fine. If you don't fit them, that should be just as fine.

@Legendryder: Yes, heaven forbid you date a "messy woman." That might cause the sky to fall and all. Fuck, if I only befriended people based on their appearance and how they kept their house I'd be missing out on the most interesting people I've ever met. But hey, do what you like. I just think that kind of prejudice isn't helpful for society as a whole. I prefer to judge people on what they have to say or who they are as people.

Glenn · 05-14-2011, 01:23 PM

I must say here that I've always had a love/hate relationship with clothes. Speaking strictly for me, I have never wanted to wear female ID clothes. Even when I could have had that dream job/promotion, I would'nt accept it. The same goes for schools, people, etc. A hot date who expected me to look femme for special occassions was likewise shot down, along with the entire relationship. Clothes are also my pride and joy, and clothes defined an important aspect of me, or I could have had a bigger pension. So for better or worse,, clothes have been a huge part of my life-style and Did have a hand in trying to braketh or maketh this Stonebutch.

asphaltcowboi · 05-14-2011, 02:54 PM

im thinking if you are what you wear i would have to be an old worn out pair of 501s and a harley tee most the time.

Jomore · 05-14-2011, 09:35 PM

PS
I just like really nice very masculine clothing, that's all.

Silverseastar · 05-15-2011, 11:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EnderD_503

Yes, people may judge. Does that make it helpful as far as progressing society? Not particularly. So shouldn't we, instead, be working on breaking stereotypes of what a "lesbian looks like" or what a "butch looks like"? That seems more productive than just accepting what society thinks certain people should wear/look like. I'm not sure what you mean by interact differently, though. Do you mean simply telling people you're a lesbian if they ask? If so, then I'd agree. But if it means changing how usually interact with people just to fit a certain paradigm, then I'd disagree. I think we need to stomp on all physical and behavioural stereotypes for certain groups of people. If you fit them, fine. If you don't fit them, that should be just as fine.

Hi EnderD,

I'm happy to have whomever do whatever they please in almost all aspects of life, clothing included. I also agree that working on breaking stereotypes is fantastic in theory. However we as humans use stereotypes to make discriminatory judgements, necessary ones, all the time. Therefore I find it highly unlikely that we will be doing away with them anytime soon.

For example, if I know what "butch" looks like it helps me to know how to relate. If a butch dresses in feminine clothing, but calls themselves butch, I will have a hard time knowing how to approach/relate to them. I say this because there are distinct ways of being in the world and relating to others that my butch friends and lover have that differ from my femme experience.

As a femme when I say interact differently, I mean for myself, having to put myself out there as a lesbian yes. To be "seen" as such I need to be more obviously gay. That includes stating upfront that I am when asked. It also means being willing to approach the butches I'm interested in. Knowing who to look for helps.

Chancie · 05-16-2011, 03:49 AM

I personally love a yummy butch in worn out jeans and a button down shirt but

Just because I see someone who appears to be female bodied, wearing worn out jeans and a button down shirt,

That doesn't mean that they identify as a butch.

Just as I don't care to be pigeon holed based on my attire,

I choose not to make assumptions about someone's gender based on their aesthetic and practical choices.

05-14-2011, 07:52 AM	#3
Jomore Junior Member How Do You Identify?: Butch Preferred Pronoun?: He/hy Relationship Status: Ridiculous Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Australia Posts: 9 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 1 Thanked 13 Times in 6 Posts Rep Power: 0	Clothes really matter to me. I'm an unrepentant Dandy. Clothes help me to define myself and who I am in the world. Whether we like it or not, our clothing signals to others certain things about who we are. Femmes I know would look pretty silly in the kind of clothing I prefer - because it just doesn't fit who they are. Whether I'm wearing jeans, Tshirt and leather jacket, suit with button down shirt, or a mixture of tailored women's and men's clothing, it always looks just butch enough for me to feel comfortable with. Clothing is our second skin - so I always want to feel comfortable in my skin. __________________ Jo More ! Scholar/Poet/Lover/Warrior

05-14-2011, 08:18 AM	#4
Corkey Infamous Member How Do You Identify?: Human Preferred Pronoun?: He Relationship Status: Very Married Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Where I want to be Posts: 8,155 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 47,491 Thanked 29,268 Times in 6,637 Posts Rep Power: 21474859	Clothes don't define who we are. They are but a expression of our outer shell. I am a human being, I wear cloths that I am comfortable in. Period. __________________ "Many proposals have been made to us to adopt your laws, your religion, your manners and your customs. We would be better pleased with beholding the good effects of these doctrines in your own practices, than with hearing you talk about them". ~Old Tassel, Chief of the Tsalagi (Cherokee)

05-14-2011, 08:37 AM	#5
The_Lady_Snow MILLION $$$ PUSSY How Do You Identify?: Kinky, Raw, Perverted, Uber Queer Alpha Femme Preferred Pronoun?: Iconic Ms. Relationship Status: Keeper of 3, only one has the map to my freckles Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: La Reina del Sur Posts: 22,488 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 32,231 Thanked 80,077 Times in 15,670 Posts Rep Power: 21474874	I don't find anything "silly" about a femme who chooses to wear certain clothing? Can you clarify what you meant? __________________ "If you’re going to play these dirty games of ours, then you might as well indulge completely. It’s all about turning back into an animal and that’s the beauty of it. Place your guilt on the sidewalk and take a blow torch to it (guilt is usually worthless anyway). Be perverted, be filthy, do things that mannered people shouldn’t do. If you’re going to be gross then go for it and don’t wimp out."---Master Aiden

05-14-2011, 09:29 PM	#8
Jomore Junior Member How Do You Identify?: Butch Preferred Pronoun?: He/hy Relationship Status: Ridiculous Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Australia Posts: 9 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 1 Thanked 13 Times in 6 Posts Rep Power: 0	Ahhh Ms Scarlett!!! Thank you for your vigilance! But not I prefaced the remark with the words "femmes I KNOW" (emphasis added) not you, not all femmes, just a select group of high femmes of my personal accquaintance. I was actually trying to make that distinction, and not make sweeping generalizations, I'm sure you'd look fine in some of my clothes, wanna come over sand lay dressups wimme? sorry babe, but nothing to get flakey about, OK? I'm just a dumb ol' Butch with poor Internet social skills, still learning, not very savvy. Suitably chastened, I won't say anything more on the subject. Sorry Jo __________________ Jo More ! Scholar/Poet/Lover/Warrior

05-14-2011, 09:07 AM	#13
theoddz Senior Member How Do You Identify?: Cranky Old Poop Preferred Pronoun?: Mr. Beast Relationship Status: Married to a beautiful babe whom I don't deserve. Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Central Texas Posts: 3,541 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 11,143 Thanked 9,935 Times in 2,513 Posts Rep Power: 21474855	I have to share this here about clothes...... There's 2 very nice people I know at work. One is a guy I work with and the Lady is one of my nurse friends who works over on the Psych ward. I recently have been playing "matchmaker" between these two because I think they'd get on famously together. Both have wonderful personalities and they're both Creole, from the Texas/Louisiana areas. They like the same foods, the same kinds of music and they come from similar cultures and backgrounds, so what's not to love??? Now, the woman...my friend Pauline, is a really outgoing, kind, caring and social person and she has this wild 'n crazy sense of humor. She's a dear woman to her very core!! When I was first telling them each about the other, Pauline turns and says to me, about Joe: "He better not be wearing no K-Mart clothes!!!" Bah ahahahahahahahaha Just WHAT, exactly, are "K-Mart clothes"???? People are funny. *~Theo~* __________________ *"All that is gold does not glitter, Not all those who wander are lost; The old that is strong does not wither, Deep roots are not reached by the frost."* -- J. R. R. Tolkien

05-09-2011, 02:11 PM	#1
Daktari Guest Tournaments Won: 1 Posts: n/a My Photo Gallery	It's funny, I met up with a gaydargirl I've chatted with for years the other day and she thought it highly amusing, and was surprised for some reason, that I was wearing a pink tshirt. Apparently only girls wear pink!

05-14-2011, 11:49 PM	#10
Martina Senior Member How Do You Identify?: * Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: * Posts: 4,999 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 13,409 Thanked 18,284 Times in 4,167 Posts Rep Power: 21474854	i am not what i wear.

05-14-2011, 10:49 PM	#12
Gayla Timed Out How Do You Identify?: Kinky Butch Top Preferred Pronoun?: I'm not picky Relationship Status: She makes me dance like a fool and forget how to breathe. Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: SF CA Posts: 3,229 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 877 Thanked 7,077 Times in 1,966 Posts Rep Power: 0	Umm. What's "butch" clothing?

05-14-2011, 11:35 AM	#14
Silverseastar Member How Do You Identify?: femme, submissive, girl Preferred Pronoun?: she Relationship Status: Singular Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Vancouver BC Posts: 133 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 348 Thanked 492 Times in 107 Posts Rep Power: 3095523	Clothes are just clothes. Or are they? In some senses they reflect an inner identity I think. How we wear them and our choices of what to wear do reflect in my opinion an internal state of mind. Now just because I think that does not mean I have judgement around what that internal state of mind may be and how it's expressed (i.e. I really don't judge what you wear but I may not be attracted to it either). It's a nice idea to think we as a society do not make judgements about appearance but in fact we use those judgements to discriminate every day. As a femme, I'm often and regularly seen as non-lesbian out in the world simply based on appearance. I need to interact differently to make the less obvious distinguishing parts of my identity clear. So if you want to be "seen" as a butch, there are certainly markers that others look for. Clothing can be one of them. It's not the only one however.

05-14-2011, 01:23 PM	#16
Glenn Senior Member How Do You Identify?: Ol butch bones. Preferred Pronoun?: Old thing Relationship Status: Too old to play. Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: :rolleyes: Posts: 1,547 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 3,602 Thanked 3,729 Times in 1,095 Posts Rep Power: 21474853	I must say here that I've always had a love/hate relationship with clothes. Speaking strictly for me, I have never wanted to wear female ID clothes. Even when I could have had that dream job/promotion, I would'nt accept it. The same goes for schools, people, etc. A hot date who expected me to look femme for special occassions was likewise shot down, along with the entire relationship. Clothes are also my pride and joy, and clothes defined an important aspect of me, or I could have had a bigger pension. So for better or worse,, clothes have been a huge part of my life-style and Did have a hand in trying to braketh or maketh this Stonebutch.

05-14-2011, 02:54 PM	#17
asphaltcowboi Senior Member How Do You Identify?: butch Relationship Status: HAPPY Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: ..... Posts: 1,509 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 2,367 Thanked 3,297 Times in 1,042 Posts Rep Power: 21474853	im thinking if you are what you wear i would have to be an old worn out pair of 501s and a harley tee most the time. __________________

05-14-2011, 09:35 PM	#18
Jomore Junior Member How Do You Identify?: Butch Preferred Pronoun?: He/hy Relationship Status: Ridiculous Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Australia Posts: 9 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 1 Thanked 13 Times in 6 Posts Rep Power: 0	PS I just like really nice very masculine clothing, that's all. __________________ Jo More ! Scholar/Poet/Lover/Warrior

05-16-2011, 03:49 AM	#20
Chancie Senior Member How Do You Identify?: queer femme-inist Relationship Status: I'm lucky. Join Date: May 2010 Location: Western Mass Posts: 3,774 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 9,518 Thanked 14,540 Times in 2,744 Posts Rep Power: 21474855	I personally love a yummy butch in worn out jeans and a button down shirt but Just because I see someone who appears to be female bodied, wearing worn out jeans and a button down shirt, That doesn't mean that they identify as a butch. Just as I don't care to be pigeon holed based on my attire, I choose not to make assumptions about someone's gender based on their aesthetic and practical choices.