So what does being Bisexual, mean to you ?

[betenoire]

Cheating is selfish, cowardly, and cruel - no matter what the circumstances are.

[Anastasia]

Originally Posted by betenoire

Cheating is selfish, cowardly, and cruel - no matter what the circumstances are.

Fundamentally I agree with you.

But there can be other circumstances that make choices harder and make your statement seem flippant and short sighted.

I will use my own story as an example. Feel free to judge it how you see fit, I say this knowing that it is impossible to really understand all of the complexities of anyone's relationships or reality.

I have always known I was attracted to women, but have not ever been in a relationship with one. I fell in love with a man over 20 years ago and we have been together ever since. Despite my attraction to women, I did not do anything about it because I was in a committed relationship. I have been married to that same man and was faithful to that man for over 20 years. I say 'was' because I made a choice a few months ago that I both do and do not regret. I did not tell my husband. I am currently engaged in an emotional affair. I did not tell my husband, nor do I intend to. The latter is a bigger betrayal in my opinion, but we will stick with the original premise for now.

I will illustrate the points that lead me to my decision:

Point 1: A little over two years ago my husband (who is 14 years older than me) was diagnosed with prostate cancer. The emotional and physical toll of the diagnosis and treatment ended our sex life for 2 years and after 2 years of absolutely no physical contact, what sex life returned was an occasional desire on his part for me to perform a particular act that I willingly do, but no desire on his part to reciprocate or even show desire toward me at all. I have been often brutally honest with him about my feelings and desires, I have begged, gotten angry, thrown myself at him, tried to show him what I want, etc. Nothing has changed other than he now avoids the subject altogether.

Is this indicative of a problem in our marriage? Yes. Is it worth leaving 20 years of history with a man that I love (regardless of my sexual preference)? In my opinion, no.


Point 2:The statistics and realities with prostate cancer treatment, the incidence of cancer recurrence, his other very real and serious illness, and just the changes in sexual desire and function in men as they age, predict that sexual issues we have are not likely to change and further treatment for this or another very serious illness he has will be needed.

I am the breadwinner of the family. At this point I pay all of the bills and his medical insurance is through my job (he is self employed). I will not have him think for even ONE MINUTE that he will not be able to pay for his current or any future treatment or that he will be alone if he is to fall seriously ill again. As long as he will have me I will be by his side to his or my last breath. Dramatic, but reality.

Point 3: One option is to tell him that I want to stay married to him, but am sexually attracted to women and ask his "permission" to have another relationship with a woman. Someone asked me once how I would feel if he gave his "blessings" to this type of arrangement. I said I would be thrilled, but I have known him 20 years and the likelihood of that is slim, but the risk of him looking at me and thinking that I had lived 20 years of a lie and I had never been attracted to him or loved him is too great. I will not have him think that ever, because it is not true.

Point 4: Another option is to remain faithful in an essentially sexless marriage with promise of sex returning to even what it was before prostate cancer. A lot of women end up leaving their husbands after prostate cancer treatment. The emotional toll is devastating and then when your partner decides he is ok with no sex life regardless of what your desire are, it gets worse. I am not leaving. So remaining faithful in a sexless marriage is what I chose for 2 years. We do not have children, only each other. I could not throw myself into my kids lives to try to avoid the loneliness. What it did was made me insane and ultimately when given the chance I cheated. I offer no excuses. I made the decision. The sex was great the aftermath was, probably deservedly, a fucking nightmare.

From all of this I summarize:

Is he perfect? No.
I am perfect? Not even close.
Do I love him? Yes, totally and completely.
Can I live without physical contact with another person? No. And if I am going to be with someone else I choose to be with the gender I am physically attracted to.
Is absolving myself of guilt worth the emotional pain and financial impact it would inflict on him? No.

Prior to all of this I would have never thought there was room in my heart for anyone other than my husband, recent events have called that into question.

I do not know where I am going from here. I do not have any excuses or answers. What I did and am doing is wrong, but I am not sure nailing myself to the cross and denying my needs is right either.

[betenoire]

Anastasia I am sorry that your husband is and has been ill. I can see how that is a dissatisfactory situation.

However. I stand by my original statement. Cheating, regardless of the circumstances, is selfish, is cowardly, is cruel.

[Anastasia]

Originally Posted by betenoire

Anastasia I am sorry that your husband is and has been ill. I can see how that is a dissatisfactory situation.

However. I stand by my original statement. Cheating, regardless of the circumstances, is selfish, is cowardly, is cruel.

Unsatisfactory. Interesting choice of words.

I truly hope you never have to live through about this type of "unsatisfactory" situation.

[betenoire]

Originally Posted by Anastasia

Unsatisfactory. Interesting choice of words.

I truly hope you never have to live through about this type of "unsatisfactory" situation.

You know absolutely nothing about my situation. Just saying.

And here I am, not cheating.

[*Anya*]

My very measured response has zero to do with the sex or gender of anyone involved. I personally can not help but identify with the two husbands involved (unknowingly so).

I have never been unfaithful in any relationship I have had. My ex, was.

If I had gone into that relationship and we had both agreed to have some sort of "open" relationship, then to me, that would not be cheating. Our relationship was, however, pledged to be monogamous.

Different picture. Different expectations. Different outcome once I discovered the betrayal.

That there are children involved in both families makes it even more difficult to stand by and say nothing.

When we put our lives out there for this community to read, we/I run the risk of negative feedback. We have human reactions and feelings.

I try very hard to not be reactive in my posts. I am aware I am failing to be
objective in this instance. It is the best I can do given the digression from the original topic.

[Cin]

Morality is a difficult thing to discuss really. Personal morality is by definition a personal choice. However, the reality is that if you believe yourself to be an ethical person then your response to a situation will be you doing the right or moral thing. Therefore anyone else confronted with the same situation would invariably make the same choice. To claim to not make the rules or to define morality for anyone else is just a way of not accepting this responsibility.

If it is okay for you to cheat, lie, steal or whatever under a certain set of circumstances then it is okay for the other to do the same under the same conditions. To me the measure of morality is that it is impartial.

If it is a logical right thinking choice for you in a situation, then in the same situation it is the logical right thinking choice for other reasonable people as well. Morality should be defined impartially.

The other necessary component for personal morality is equal respect for the humanity of all persons. Not equal respect for everyone in everyway. Just equal respect for the humanity of all.

[dreadgeek]

Originally Posted by Miss Tick

Morality is a difficult thing to discuss really. Personal morality is by definition a personal choice. However, the reality is that if you believe yourself to be an ethical person then your response to a situation will be you doing the right or moral thing. Therefore anyone else confronted with the same situation would invariably make the same choice. To claim to not make the rules or to define morality for anyone else is just a way of not accepting this responsibility.

If it is okay for you to cheat, lie, steal or whatever under a certain set of circumstances then it is okay for the other to do the same under the same conditions. To me the measure of morality is that it is impartial.

If it is a logical right thinking choice for you in a situation, then in the same situation it is the logical right thinking choice for other reasonable people as well. Morality should be defined impartially.

The other necessary component for personal morality is equal respect for the humanity of all persons. Not equal respect for everyone in everyway. Just equal respect for the humanity of all.

The above in red is what I was driving at when I asked my question about what role the gender of the participants played in things. To me, if this situation is acceptable such that we should not judge things in this instance then we should not be in the least bit disturbed *regardless* of the configuration of the parties.

If it's okay for Barb to cheat on Mike with Mary, then it must also be okay for Mike to cheat on Barb with Julie or, for that matter, for Barb to cheat on Mary with Stan. Once we have decided that this is entirely unremarkable behavior, then any limits we choose to put on this must be *entirely* arbitrary. We should not endorse any behavior or principle--most especially our own--unless we are willing to have that behavior or principle become universal. If we do endorse some behavior or principle, particularly one that has manifest potential to cause harm to others, for ourselves then by what logic do we deny it to others?

Cheers
Aj

[dreadgeek]

Originally Posted by Miss Tick

Morality is a difficult thing to discuss really. Personal morality is by definition a personal choice. However, the reality is that if you believe yourself to be an ethical person then your response to a situation will be you doing the right or moral thing. Therefore anyone else confronted with the same situation would invariably make the same choice. To claim to not make the rules or to define morality for anyone else is just a way of not accepting this responsibility.

If it is okay for you to cheat, lie, steal or whatever under a certain set of circumstances then it is okay for the other to do the same under the same conditions. To me the measure of morality is that it is impartial.

If it is a logical right thinking choice for you in a situation, then in the same situation it is the logical right thinking choice for other reasonable people as well. Morality should be defined impartially.

The other necessary component for personal morality is equal respect for the humanity of all persons. Not equal respect for everyone in everyway. Just equal respect for the humanity of all.

Would you mind terribly if I linked to this in the Breaking the Spell thread? What you say here is the kind of meme I want being batted around in that thread.

Cheers
Aj

[citybutch]

There are ways I agree with you... kind of.

Laws are impartial. The legal thing to do in any given situation is black and white. Stealing for example is illegal... there is no difference in terms of the law that what you are doing is legal or illegal. A murderer is as much operating outside the law as someone who shoplifts. It is merely the level of punishment that will differ. Both a murderer and someone who steals is operating outside the law. What may be legal behavior may not be moral. What is moral behavior is always legal.

Ethical or moral behavior, on the other hand is far more blurred and far LESS black and white. What may be legal behavior may not (and sometimes IS not) ethical or moral behavior. Ethical/Moral behavior is behavior that we would want to be above and beyond legal behavior. For our society for some it is based on the Golden Rule. Do unto others as you would have others do unto you... or even higher, place the needs and concerns of others above your own. This can be open to interpretation. In fact, sometimes two different can come to different solutions based on one's moral universe or moral compass.

Originally Posted by Miss Tick

Morality is a difficult thing to discuss really. Personal morality is by definition a personal choice. However, the reality is that if you believe yourself to be an ethical person then your response to a situation will be you doing the right or moral thing. Therefore anyone else confronted with the same situation would invariably make the same choice. To claim to not make the rules or to define morality for anyone else is just a way of not accepting this responsibility.

If it is okay for you to cheat, lie, steal or whatever under a certain set of circumstances then it is okay for the other to do the same under the same conditions. To me the measure of morality is that it is impartial.

If it is a logical right thinking choice for you in a situation, then in the same situation it is the logical right thinking choice for other reasonable people as well. Morality should be defined impartially.

The other necessary component for personal morality is equal respect for the humanity of all persons. Not equal respect for everyone in everyway. Just equal respect for the humanity of all.