So what does being Bisexual, mean to you ?

[dreadgeek]

Originally Posted by Miss Tick

Morality is a difficult thing to discuss really. Personal morality is by definition a personal choice. However, the reality is that if you believe yourself to be an ethical person then your response to a situation will be you doing the right or moral thing. Therefore anyone else confronted with the same situation would invariably make the same choice. To claim to not make the rules or to define morality for anyone else is just a way of not accepting this responsibility.

If it is okay for you to cheat, lie, steal or whatever under a certain set of circumstances then it is okay for the other to do the same under the same conditions. To me the measure of morality is that it is impartial.

If it is a logical right thinking choice for you in a situation, then in the same situation it is the logical right thinking choice for other reasonable people as well. Morality should be defined impartially.

The other necessary component for personal morality is equal respect for the humanity of all persons. Not equal respect for everyone in everyway. Just equal respect for the humanity of all.

The above in red is what I was driving at when I asked my question about what role the gender of the participants played in things. To me, if this situation is acceptable such that we should not judge things in this instance then we should not be in the least bit disturbed *regardless* of the configuration of the parties.

If it's okay for Barb to cheat on Mike with Mary, then it must also be okay for Mike to cheat on Barb with Julie or, for that matter, for Barb to cheat on Mary with Stan. Once we have decided that this is entirely unremarkable behavior, then any limits we choose to put on this must be *entirely* arbitrary. We should not endorse any behavior or principle--most especially our own--unless we are willing to have that behavior or principle become universal. If we do endorse some behavior or principle, particularly one that has manifest potential to cause harm to others, for ourselves then by what logic do we deny it to others?

Cheers
Aj

[Cin]

Originally Posted by dreadgeek

The above in red is what I was driving at when I asked my question about what role the gender of the participants played in things. To me, if this situation is acceptable such that we should not judge things in this instance then we should not be in the least bit disturbed *regardless* of the configuration of the parties.

If it's okay for Barb to cheat on Mike with Mary, then it must also be okay for Mike to cheat on Barb with Julie or, for that matter, for Barb to cheat on Mary with Stan. Once we have decided that this is entirely unremarkable behavior, then any limits we choose to put on this must be *entirely* arbitrary. We should not endorse any behavior or principle--most especially our own--unless we are willing to have that behavior or principle become universal. If we do endorse some behavior or principle, particularly one that has manifest potential to cause harm to others, for ourselves then by what logic do we deny it to others?

Cheers
Aj

I think your whole post is very important to understand and to digest. I especially wanted to emphasize the part in red. That's what I was aiming for but I missed the mark. Thank you.

[Chancie]

Could I count on Starbuck and her lover if I were outed as a teacher and my job was in jeopardy?

Would they say, Oh, she's a fabulous teacher; I can't wait until my child is in high school.

Or would they snicker when my name came up at a PTA meeting?

[Novelafemme]

Originally Posted by Miss Tick

Morality is a difficult thing to discuss really. Personal morality is by definition a personal choice. However, the reality is that if you believe yourself to be an ethical person then your response to a situation will be you doing the right or moral thing. Therefore anyone else confronted with the same situation would invariably make the same choice. To claim to not make the rules or to define morality for anyone else is just a way of not accepting this responsibility.

If it is okay for you to cheat, lie, steal or whatever under a certain set of circumstances then it is okay for the other to do the same under the same conditions. To me the measure of morality is that it is impartial.

If it is a logical right thinking choice for you in a situation, then in the same situation it is the logical right thinking choice for other reasonable people as well. Morality should be defined impartially.

The other necessary component for personal morality is equal respect for the humanity of all persons. Not equal respect for everyone in everyway. Just equal respect for the humanity of all.

Thank you, Miss Tick. Beautifully written and articulated in a non-judgemental manner.

[JustJo]

Having been the partner that was cheated on, I have zero tolerance for cheating.

Having been the partner who was "the meal ticket" that was used for my money, I have no respect for those who take financial advantage of others either.

To be clear, if there is honesty in the relationship, then I have no issue. In my view, any set or group of partners can make whatever arrangement works for them with regard to open or closed relationship, or who supports whom....and I have no issue.

But there has to be honesty and openness about what's going on.

I don't have an issue with Starbuck, or anyone else, being bisexual or having multiple partners, even if married or in a committed relationship...as long as that has been shared openly and agreed to.

What bothers me is that Starbuck and her lover are both decieving their partners, and Starbuck makes no bones about staying with her husband for financial security (and because she enjoys some of the activities they share), but that his sexual desire for her is a burden. To me, she is using her husband and lying to him....and that bothers me a lot, especially when coupled with her gleeful confidence that he would never cheat, and her profile statements about loving God and going to church. For me, there's a huge disconnect....and I doubt that her husband would take the same view of the situation that she apparently does.

Anastasia....I feel for you. I truly do. I know how hard it is to be in a sexless marriage with someone you care about. I endured 2 years of that in my first marriage, and it's soul killing stuff.

I do have to say, though, that I still don't agree with the deception (and I don't think you do either or you wouldn't be in such pain about it). Can you not be honest with him about what you have and do feel for him, assure him that you will stay married and continue to provide the medical insurance he needs, and redefine your relationship going forward to allow you to get what you need and want?

Only you can answer that, of course....but to me it's a course worth pursuing, for your own emotional well-being as well as his.

I know that taking the ethical route is hard. I'm doing it now in a different circumstance and struggling to "do the right thing." I still think it's worth doing.

[betenoire]

If Caroline loses her sex drive (because she was depressed, because she had had a hysterectomy, because because because) and Jonathan decides to cheat on her (With Judith or Samuel or Blake) because his sexual needs are not being met - I certainly hope that everybody who thinks I am mean today because I say there is no set of circumstances that justifies cheating remembers to dote on Jonathan and be understanding.

[Strappie]

Originally Posted by betenoire

If Caroline loses her sex drive (because she was depressed, because she had had a hysterectomy, because because because) and Jonathan decides to cheat on her (With Judith or Samuel or Blake) because his sexual needs are not being met - I certainly hope that everybody who thinks I am mean today because I say there is no set of circumstances that justifies cheating remembers to dote on Jonathan and be understanding.

Bentenoire,

I appreciate your hard stance on this subject. But might I remind you unless you are IN the shoes of these people you will never begin to know and undeerstand how it is for them. You are a very strong person and I commend you for the view you have, that you yourself would never dream of cheating.

Nobody is here to change your thoughts and views!

What I see is some people with compassion and willing to share their life. Perhaps they are reaching out for guidance from us? Or maybe just an ear to get it off their chest.

I for one am not judging these people. Jesus I wasn't ever perfect growing up and still am not perfect.

[Dude]

I once met a couple (butch & femme together for 20 years) who were best
of friends, both married to husbands who were also best friends.
Apparently ,they realized their attraction for each other while the husbands
were away.
They allowed a few weeks for the whole thing to sink in and then told their
husbands and teenage kids.
It's called integrity and I believe the way they handled it, allowed them to
stay together for 20 years
My bet is they are still together.

[SecretAgentMa'am]

Originally Posted by Strappie

Bentenoire,

I appreciate your hard stance on this subject. But might I remind you unless you are IN the shoes of these people you will never begin to know and undeerstand how it is for them. You are a very strong person and I commend you for the view you have, that you yourself would never dream of cheating.

Nobody is here to change your thoughts and views!

What I see is some people with compassion and willing to share their life. Perhaps they are reaching out for guidance from us? Or maybe just an ear to get it off their chest.

I for one am not judging these people. Jesus I wasn't ever perfect growing up and still am not perfect.

Really? What BFP are you reading? On the BFP I'm reading, people try to change each other's thoughts and views all the damn time.

[betenoire]

Originally Posted by Strappie

Bentenoire,

I appreciate your hard stance on this subject. But might I remind you unless you are IN the shoes of these people you will never begin to know and undeerstand how it is for them. You are a very strong person and I commend you for the view you have, that you yourself would never dream of cheating.

Nobody is here to change your thoughts and views!

What I see is some people with compassion and willing to share their life. Perhaps they are reaching out for guidance from us? Or maybe just an ear to get it off their chest.

I for one am not judging these people. Jesus I wasn't ever perfect growing up and still am not perfect.

You know, Strappie, if I didn't know any better I'd have sworn you were trying to Moderate me! (Actually, I thought you were. I pm'd someone to ask if you are a Moderator all of a sudden.)

(and, p/s - when someone says "what you said is flippant and short-sighted! and here is why!" they absolutely -are- trying to change my views.)

[Random]

Originally Posted by betenoire

If Caroline loses her sex drive (because she was depressed, because she had had a hysterectomy, because because because) and Jonathan decides to cheat on her (With Judith or Samuel or Blake) because his sexual needs are not being met - I certainly hope that everybody who thinks I am mean today because I say there is no set of circumstances that justifies cheating remembers to dote on Jonathan and be understanding.

I don't think you are mean Potty... I think you are right...

For me cheating IS one of the most self centered and selfish thing one can do to your partner... It was when I cheated and it was when I was cheated on...

When you cheat, you TAKE someones choice away from them... You withhold information that they need to make a decision on if they want to be with you...

Pretty well, you don't want to pay for what you want... You don't want to have to deal with the fall out of what your desires are. It's not so much that you don't want to hurt your partner.. (because if you really didn't want to hurt them, then you wouldn't cheat) It's you don't want to have to deal with the reaction that your partner is going to have from your decision.

Cheating is wrong... period... We know it when we do it and we know it when it's done to us.. If it wasn't wrong then it wouldn't feel so bad...

If your partner can't meet your needs then you need to talk and GIVE them the choice... Don't treat them like a child and you know what's best for them.... Treat them like a mother fucking adult and let them decided if they want to be with you in an open relationship or what ever arrangement works so both parties get their needs met as well as possible..

I wasn't going to post in this thread because I knew I would get on my soap box again and start preaching cause I am Judgy McJudgeson on this subject, but I couldn't let Potty think that she was alone or that she was being mean...