Boy Scouts of America: Is it appropriate to educate a 10 year-old that's soliciting funds for that kind of organization?

[J. Mason]

Originally Posted by tapu

Here's how I thought it through: The Boy Scouts as a national organization have discriminatory policies. They are also effectively disconnected from the Boy Scouts at Troop level and even at Circle level.

At those levels, where the boy scouts actually are, inclusiveness is a main and explicit goal--and standard practice. The boys who make up a troop are not self-selecting their friends--kids who would never hang out together at school or elsewhere are grouped together in a troop, and loyalty, kindness, respect, etc, are values and attitudes extended to all Scouts.

It's pretty tough to get thrown out of Boy Scouts. Kids with serious behavior problems and other problems are enthusiastically included and accommodated. Boy Scouts are not mean to one another. Behavior of leaders and other troop members model against it very effectively.

I'm included in my son's Boy Scout Troop parents, as is his other mother. I help chaperone their hikes and camp-outs, and I've been invited to become an Assistant Scout Master. (I swear I can hear you guys smirking. >:-)

The point of all this is: I don't think scout, parent, or troop level is an effective or appropriate way to address the discrimination issues. Voice your complaints to the BSA administrative offices. They'll know what you're talking about.

I am in agreeance with Tapu, to take it to the BSA admin. offices.

[tapu]

There's really not anyone who doesn't know I'm gay. Even if we're just standing in a supermarket line together.


But yes, the SM, ASM, and all the scouts and parents know Asa's moms are gay. There are also some Eagle Scouts who are gay and out. They are in Asa's troop, too. (Another unusual grouping of these boys is across age: 12-18.)


How many years ago are you talking wrt being rejected by your son's troop? Because I think rejection was more rampant everywhere than it is now. There have been some rapid changes.

[tapu]

In point of fact, the money Boy Scouts earn from popcorn, wreath, etc., sales does NOT go to the National Org. That money is how the troop pays for camp and other activities. It's also used as a scholarship for Scouts' families who would never be able to afford the parent contribution to camp.

[Queerasfck]

Your poll has loop holes.

I responded multiple times to the poll because sometimes I do ignore...sometimes I might say something to the kid or the mom or both. It depends on the age of the kid and my mood. I've seen the BS people at the grocery store for the last week or so and on Sunday the kid came over to me and screamed "STEELERS" as he noticed I was dressed in my Sunday best. He didn't ask me if I wanted to buy anything, he just high fived me, so that was that.

I definitely don't buy things from the boy scouts because of their discrimination policies. But I'm less likely to converse about why with the kid or the mom as to why.

[apretty]

He's a super cute kid, let's bring him home!

Originally Posted by John Shaft

Your poll has loop holes.

I responded multiple times to the poll because sometimes I do ignore...sometimes I might say something to the kid or the mom or both. It depends on the age of the kid and my mood. I've seen the BS people at the grocery store for the last week or so and on Sunday the kid came over to me and screamed "STEELERS" as he noticed I was dressed in my Sunday best. He didn't ask me if I wanted to buy anything, he just high fived me, so that was that.

I definitely don't buy things from the boy scouts because of their discrimination policies. But I'm less likely to converse about why with the kid or the mom as to why.

[Julie]

Originally Posted by J. Mason

I am in agreeance with Tapu, to take it to the BSA admin. offices.

Actually I disagree.

I believe taking it also to the parents is important. Not all parents know or understand the discrimination and the policies of the Scouts (all the Scouts).

Even today, there are parents who do not know - If we are given the opportunity to educate...GENTLY...And not with force or aggression, I believe you will find that many parents will be outraged by what information you give.

THEN - they can certainly voice their concerns on the discrimination (as well) to the BSA and GSA.

@ Tapu -- I would say this was probably the mid 90's.

Julie

[apretty]

Tapu:

If you click on the links in the original post you can read about very recent boy scout assocation-discrimination.

[apretty]

*from the article:

Now there’s this story to prove that the Boy Scouts’ homophobia isn’t gender specific.

After six years playing an active role in her son’s Boy Scout troup in Potomac Falls, Va., Denise Steele has been kicked out after another Scout’s mother discovered Steele is a lesbian.

Steele started out as a den leader for her son’s Cub Scout troop in elementary school when no one else would do it. Over the next six years, according to the Loudon Times, Steele’s son’s troop excelled at everything, winning the Blue and Gold Award — one of Scouting’s highest awards — for five years running. And when her son moved on up to the Boy Scouts, Steele moved with him.

All was fine until June this year when Steele accompanied her son and his troop on a Saturday-through-Monday camping trip. Because Steele had to work on Monday, her partner, Jackie Funk, showed up on Sunday night to pick her up. Assistant Scout Master Skip Inabinett then asked who the woman was that picked Steele up, and when she found out that Steele is a lesbian, and the woman giving her a ride was her partner, everything changed

Inabinett started with a letter to a friend of Steele’s whose son was also in the troop: “If what you said about Denise Steele being an active (homo)sexual is true, do you feel comfortable talking with her about stepping down/resigning as an ASM … as her friend, this may be an opportunity for you to share with her about Christ’s love and the need to believe that as sinners we cannot get to heaven on our own and that we need a savior.”

Inabinett then proceeded to communicate with Steele herself over the next two weeks, focusing his efforts on telling her that her “lifestyle” is a sin and, according to Funk, bullying Steele to the point of tears....

[tapu]

Originally Posted by apretty

Tapu:

If you click on the links in the original post you can read about very recent boy scout assocation-discrimination.

And if I go to the Scout meeting tonight, I can experience first-hand the diversity and inclusion in effect.

I separate the troop from the over-arching organization. It's like buying products without driving yourself crazy over whether they're green or use child labor, etc. Except that BSA at the circle level is providing something very very positive for kids.

Sidenote: I don't think explaining your position to a Boy Scout and his mother is going to do anything other than confusing and embarrassing them. Whereas, directing your disagreement to the BSA might.

[tapu]

Silence = Death, Julie? To a Boy Scout and his mother selling candy? Really?


I think that people such as those in the links, who participate and run into trouble, are the very people making headway for others like me. People lecturing scouts and parents, not so much.

[Julie]

Originally Posted by tapu

Silence = Death, Julie? To a Boy Scout and his mother selling candy? Really?

No Tapu!

That was part of my explanation to J. Mason regarding "I just see a problem with trying to tell a parent about the situation you never know what you are going to encounter."

If we stand SILENT - then I believe this is where we are headed.

Julie

[tapu]

Originally Posted by Julie

No Tapu!

That was part of my explanation to J. Mason regarding "I just see a problem with trying to tell a parent about the situation you never know what you are going to encounter."

If we stand SILENT - then I believe this is where we are headed.

Julie

I'm sorry, I don't get the difference. Taking a Silence = Death stance would mean confronting the parent, right?


Ah! You thought I meant that you were advocating SAYING it. No, I meant going at it in that way--confronting the parent.

[apretty]

Originally Posted by tapu

Silence = Death, Julie? To a Boy Scout and his mother selling candy? Really?

Silence is agreement, it's support.

I also understand what silence means, which is of course why I feel a bit compelled to open up a dialogue about how their club effects real people.

It really doesn't matter how you remove yourself from the organization--It's still Boy Scouts of America until you make it different it stays the same (discriminatory)--You could be ousted with one phone call to the association.

[tapu]

Originally Posted by apretty

It really doesn't matter how you remove yourself from the organization--It's still Boy Scouts of America until you make it different it stays the same (discriminatory)--You could be ousted with one phone call to the association.

Oh, boy, would they have their hands full then! I could really make a difference.

[J. Mason]

Originally Posted by Julie

Actually I disagree.

I believe taking it also to the parents is important. Not all parents know or understand the discrimination and the policies of the Scouts (all the Scouts).

Even today, there are parents who do not know - If we are given the opportunity to educate...GENTLY...And not with force or aggression, I believe you will find that many parents will be outraged by what information you give.

THEN - they can certainly voice their concerns on the discrimination (as well) to the BSA and GSA.

@ Tapu -- I would say this was probably the mid 90's.

Julie

I just see a problem with trying to tell a parent about the situation you never know what you are going to encounter.

[Julie]

Originally Posted by J. Mason

I just see a problem with trying to tell a parent about the situation you never know what you are going to encounter.

Well...
Then those who are not comfortable with sharing information and feel they might be at risk - should not tell.

BUT - I will say this.
The end of the road to discrimination on any level, begins with risk and communication.

Look at the Black Panthers - Martin Luther King - Stonewall - Gay Liberation Army - The Suffragets - The list goes on and on.

We cannot expect people to change, if we are not willing to stand up and speak.

Remember the old ACTUP saying?

Silence = Death

It still holds true.