Leisha Hailey was kicked off plane for lesbian kiss

[stargazingboi]

Originally Posted by Miss Tick

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/entertai...-1226147905568

I'm not big on PDAs. Never have been.

But I don't think everyone has to be like me.

Yet there is a line that shouldn't be crossed.

However, the problem is the line is different for everyone.

And it is in a different place depending on whether you are gay or straight.

Since the airline claimed the issue was one of degree I decided to give them the benefit of the doubt. If the degree of PDA was the problem for this airline or really for any airline, then surely heterosexual couples have had their fair share or at least SOME share of incidents where they stepped over the line. So I googled heterosexual couples tossed off planes for excessive kissing and got more stories about gay couples. I tried a different approach and googled has a heterosexual couple been admonished for overly sexual behavior and didn't put any more information just to see what issues hetero couples have surrounding PDA. But I just got more stuff about homosexuals.

It's hard to accept the airlines claim that it wasn't about gender.

What do people think about public displays of affection and the different standards for gays and straights?

First...regarding the gender issue mentioned..do heterosexuals face the same issues and get booted off flight for PDA? Yes..yes they do...a man in California was arrested and convicted after a 3 day trail for PDA with his girlfriend (link to story below..I found several stories like this one)

[URL="http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/archive/index.php/t-57274.html"]


I have no doubt that one group of people will get more attention in the media than another...lets face it, it's about what will grab peoples attention and sell.


I'm of the mind set that there is a time and a place for everything. I sorta live by the...if I wouldn't do it in front of my parents or kids (whether my partner's kids/my foster kids when I have one placed with me etc)..then I don't do it in public places where other peoples parents or kids are.

Couples should be able to show affection to one another, it's actually quite healthy for a relationship. It also teaches our children what a healthy relationship looks like....of course once again...there is a time and a place for certain things.

For me it's about mutual respect.

[Cin]

Originally Posted by stargazingboi

First...regarding the gender issue mentioned..do heterosexuals face the same issues and get booted off flight for PDA? Yes..yes they do...a man in California was arrested and convicted after a 3 day trail for PDA with his girlfriend (link to story below..I found several stories like this one)

[URL="http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/archive/index.php/t-57274.html"]


I have no doubt that one group of people will get more attention in the media than another...lets face it, it's about what will grab peoples attention and sell.


I'm of the mind set that there is a time and a place for everything. I sorta live by the...if I wouldn't do it in front of my parents or kids (whether my partner's kids/my foster kids when I have one placed with me etc)..then I don't do it in public places where other peoples parents or kids are.

Couples should be able to show affection to one another, it's actually quite healthy for a relationship. It also teaches our children what a healthy relationship looks like....of course once again...there is a time and a place for certain things.

For me it's about mutual respect.

I couldn't get through to this either by clicking on the link or by copying and pasting. I would be very interested in reading this as well as the several others you found. I spent a good deal of time yesterday trying to find something so any help would be greatly appreciated.

A big part of what bothered me about this incident was the apparent unfairness. That and the fact that every time I tried to find something about heterosexual public displays of affection or heterosexual overly sexual behavior, I was directed to something with the tag homosexual in it. Pissed me off a tad.

[stargazingboi]

Originally Posted by Miss Tick

I couldn't get through to this either by clicking on the link or by copying and pasting. I would be very interested in reading this as well as the several others you found. I spent a good deal of time yesterday trying to find something so any help would be greatly appreciated.

A big part of what bothered me about this incident was the apparent unfairness. That and the fact that every time I tried to find something about heterosexual public displays of affection or heterosexual overly sexual behavior, I was directed to something with the tag homosexual in it. Pissed me off a tad.

Hmm I am fairly new to posting ..and haven't gotten the hang of putting links in here I guess. I hit the add link and cut and pasted the link...didn't work I see. I was able to cut and paste and it worked.


http://abcnews.go.com/Travel/story?i...C-RSSFeeds0312

the first one was part of another story and post..the referenced this *points above* link which was the original story on ABC ...perhaps, if I messed it up again, you cut and past that one it will work for you. However, I would be more than happy to send it along to you another way.

[Cin]

Originally Posted by stargazingboi

First...regarding the gender issue mentioned..do heterosexuals face the same issues and get booted off flight for PDA? Yes..yes they do...a man in California was arrested and convicted after a 3 day trail for PDA with his girlfriend (link to story below..I found several stories like this one)

[URL="http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/archive/index.php/t-57274.html"]


I have no doubt that one group of people will get more attention in the media than another...lets face it, it's about what will grab peoples attention and sell.


I'm of the mind set that there is a time and a place for everything. I sorta live by the...if I wouldn't do it in front of my parents or kids (whether my partner's kids/my foster kids when I have one placed with me etc)..then I don't do it in public places where other peoples parents or kids are.

Couples should be able to show affection to one another, it's actually quite healthy for a relationship. It also teaches our children what a healthy relationship looks like....of course once again...there is a time and a place for certain things.

For me it's about mutual respect.

I figured out how to cut and paste the story. But I think there was a bit more to it than kissing

"According to an FBI indictment, Persing's face was pressed to Sewell's vaginal area during the September Southwest Airlines flight from Los Angeles to Raleigh, N.C. When a flight attendant gave them a second warning, Persing reacted angrily and the couple, both in their early 40s, were arrested when the plane reached its destination."

But at least you were able to find something.

[JAGG]

What does it mean exactly when a company or organization says there are a family enviroment, or family this or family that? Do they think we don't have family? Or that we are not part of a family? Or that we don't have our own kids? What are we hatched and seperated at birth to grow and live alone from civilization and have no concept or understanding of family???? I just want to say that's awesome!!!!!!!! Cause I belong to a family , a great family! I have family and I am family( more ways than one) and my family loves me and I love my family so I'll fit right in here, no that we have that squared away, where do I sit! Can I get the family discount?

[stargazingboi]

Originally Posted by Miss Tick

I figured out how to cut and paste the story. But I think there was a bit more to it than kissing

"According to an FBI indictment, Persing's face was pressed to Sewell's vaginal area during the September Southwest Airlines flight from Los Angeles to Raleigh, N.C. When a flight attendant gave them a second warning, Persing reacted angrily and the couple, both in their early 40s, were arrested when the plane reached its destination."

But at least you were able to find something.

yes...but it's all in the perception isn't it? We are never given the full story in any article. However, it was asked if heterosexuals get booted from flights for PDA..and they do. Do we know how far they went? no..because we were not there. Did this couple go to fair? did Leisha go to fair? we wont really know because we were not there...

so, where do we draw the line? who determines this? In our country it is stated "you're rights end where mine begins" what does this really mean? We each must figure this out for ourselves...and this is what crossed my mind when I read your original post.

[Cin]

Originally Posted by stargazingboi

yes...but it's all in the perception isn't it? We are never given the full story in any article. However, it was asked if heterosexuals get booted from flights for PDA..and they do. Do we know how far they went? no..because we were not there. Did this couple go to fair? did Leisha go to fair? we wont really know because we were not there...

so, where do we draw the line? who determines this? In our country it is stated "you're rights end where mine begins" what does this really mean? We each must figure this out for ourselves...and this is what crossed my mind when I read your original post.

That is true. i suppose we are never given the full story in any article. But at some point I need to get to a place where I am comfortable with some idea of truth. I can't just say well, I don't know what happened so you are all wrong. Or you are all right for that matter. I have to do my homework. If I am interested in some issue I need to research it and come to a place where I believe I have enough knowledge or information to make an informed decision. I'm not saying I have enough in this case yet. I am saying that I am not prepared to say two women kissing is going too far. I might be prepared to say that putting your face in someone's vaginal area in a public place is going too far. However, it seems to me that the constant here was giving the flight attendants a hard time. I don't think they like that.

Also I might be prepared to say that the line for what is inappropriate behavior for homosexuals is in a very different place than it is for heterosexuals. I know so far evidence points to the possibility that this might be the case.

[stargazingboi]

Originally Posted by Miss Tick

That is true. i suppose we are never given the full story in any article. But at some point I need to get to a place where I am comfortable with some idea of truth. I can't just say well, I don't know what happened so you are all wrong. Or you are all right for that matter. I have to do my homework. If I am interested in some issue I need to research it and come to a place where I believe I have enough knowledge or information to make an informed decision. I'm not saying I have enough in this case yet. I am saying that I am not prepared to say two women kissing is going too far. I might be prepared to say that putting your face in someone's vaginal area in a public place is going too far. However, it seems to me that the constant here was giving the flight attendants a hard time. I don't think they like that.

Also I might be prepared to say that the line for what is inappropriate behavior for homosexuals is in a very different place than it is for heterosexuals. I know so far evidence points to the possibility that this might be the case.

The way you are going about it..is indeed a wise way to approach most topics that provokes within. Over the course of time I have watched the world change regarding same sex couples. I have faced many issues that revolve around who I am..how I live etc. What I have found is...depending on where (what city and state) I am, will determine what line is drawn in the sand regarding appropriate and inappropriate behavior. I have found that in major cities the line is different...than in smaller towns or down south.

Do I think kissing is inappropriate..whether same sex or opposite..hell no? but what else was going on when the kiss occurred? bumping..grinding...hands roaming about? Could something else have caused the issue? perhaps..and then again depending on the flight attendant it could have been their own personal view that caused them to say something. Not sure

What we do know is that a disagreement occurred...a scene was made and that flights can not take off or continue being in flight when such disagreements are in effect. I have even been on a plan that landed to eject someone from the flight for causing a disruption (was a person who drank to much and became belligerent).

So..maybe it wasn't the kissing that caused the issue but the way it was handled? If they were on the ground and in the waiting area of the same airline would the situation have been handled differently? There is much to think about here

[EnderD_503]

Originally Posted by stargazingboi

First...regarding the gender issue mentioned..do heterosexuals face the same issues and get booted off flight for PDA? Yes..yes they do...a man in California was arrested and convicted after a 3 day trail for PDA with his girlfriend (link to story below..I found several stories like this one)

[URL="http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/archive/index.php/t-57274.html"]


I have no doubt that one group of people will get more attention in the media than another...lets face it, it's about what will grab peoples attention and sell.


I'm of the mind set that there is a time and a place for everything. I sorta live by the...if I wouldn't do it in front of my parents or kids (whether my partner's kids/my foster kids when I have one placed with me etc)..then I don't do it in public places where other peoples parents or kids are.

Couples should be able to show affection to one another, it's actually quite healthy for a relationship. It also teaches our children what a healthy relationship looks like....of course once again...there is a time and a place for certain things.

For me it's about mutual respect.

The first thing that struck me about this case, that did not occur in the case of Hailey and Grey, is that the airline's reports actually were able to tell us what the couple was doing that constituted "inappropriate." In the case of Hailey, all they say is "it was inappropriate, it caused customer's to complain." They did not go into detail, and Hailey is the only one who tells us anything; that it was a "modest kiss" and they were not making out or causing a "spectacle" of themselves.

In the case of the heterosexual couple, the airline then needs to justify itself, and did when it reported (and it was confirmed) that

Carl Persing was convicted Thursday of interfering with flight attendants and crew members after he and his girlfriend, Dawn Sewell, were seen "embracing, kissing and acting in a manner that made other passengers uncomfortable," according to a criminal complaint.

According to an FBI indictment, Persing's face was pressed to Sewell's vaginal area during the September Southwest Airlines flight from Los Angeles to Raleigh, N.C. When a flight attendant gave them a second warning, Persing reacted angrily and the couple, both in their early 40s, were arrested when the plane reached its destination.

This report on the heterosexual couple is far more detailed, far more methodical. It tells us what happened step by step, that the couple were touching each other and kissing (we can probably assume making out), that man had his face pressed to the woman's vaginal area; that the flight attendant came back twice to tell them to stop, and that it was only when the man became enraged that further action was taken.

We have nothing of the sort in Hailey's case. Instead, we have very few details or comments by the airline (and the original article was heavily biased in order to make Hailey sound irrational/hysterical if you look at the quotes they used there vs. the ones in the later article, and the airline look "reasonable" and "family-oriented"), we don't know what was said, we don't know what went on, the airline won't tell us what was done that was inappropriate. The lack of details hints, again, to the potential homophobia that occurred. How far does a heterosexual have to go for this to happen? The case you've given us is rather extreme. How far does a homosexual couple have to go for this to happen? I'd gather a "modest kiss" just might do it.

If something like in the case of the heterosexual couple went on, something tells me they'd be all too willing to tell us.

[dykeumentary]

This situation points to an ever deeper problem, in my opinion. Airlines are only one entity that has been exercising full martial law/police state powers since the "patriot act" rolled out.

What I read is that the lesbians reacted angrily to the directions given by the flight attendants. That should be reasonable, but now because of TSA and homeland security, is not. it's against the law to not do exactly what someone in a position of Power says, regardless of how nonsensical or authoritarian or racist it is.

Consider what's happening in Arizona- if a police officer thinks you look like you speak Spanish, you have to provide documentation of your citizenship. You can land in a jail if you don't comply immediately. If you want to stand quietly, and bear witness to the police brutality happening at the demonstrations at Wall Street, you can be charged with obstructing justice.

We live in bizarre, deadly times. Any young black man could tell you what would happen to him when he gets angry- even if he's justified in doing so.

When these things happen I hope it brings more awarenes to the problems of our times. It is sad that the experience of injustice brings people to the fight against it.

[RockOn]

I don't like it but it is a fact that the playing field is not level, not the same for all in terms of what "greater society" declares acceptable here in the U.S.

This story reminds me of an incident I became involved in around six years ago in the women's dressing room at local Dillard's store.

I was trying on some men's polo shirts that night. There were broken wooden slits on the doors of the dressing rooms - no privacy. From overhearing conversation, l realized my room was directly across from a woman who was about to be married. I was disgusted when her male fiance joined her in her room because he was all over her with his hands. When she walked out to view herself in big mirror outside of dressing rooms, he had his hands around her waist, walked behind her with his dick pressed up against her bottom as tight as possible. I initiated verbal exchange, told him he needed to wait outside since the rooms had broken panels on the doors. He got nasty, called me a dyke, etc. I went to nearby cash register, explained to the Dillard's employee what was going on and that he needed to be removed from women's dressing room. This employee was not a take charge personality. I ended up instructing her to call security. I received more dyke slurs from this guy during the ten minutes or so that it took security to arrive. This asshole het male had ten minutes to leave but was determined to "I'll show the dyke who is boss" and he did because security did nothing. I left after becoming infuriated from standing there with the jerk, talking with security and realizing security had no intention of doing anything. Due to intensely inflamed emotions, I was not thinking correctly at that point in time. Given a similar situation today, I would write down all names involved, consult legal advice, find out who I needed to direct formal proceedings against - take it to the max from there.