OCCUPY WALL STREET

[Martina]

Originally Posted by AtLastHome

It also can be atributed to the fact that historically, social movements tend to begin among white, middle class people.

That is simply not true. The Civil Rights Movement was not started by white middle class people. The Labor Movement was not. The LGBT rights movement was not. The Disability Rights movement was not. Anti-Apartheid was not. Indiginous Peoples Movements were not. And on and on.

[AtLast]

Originally Posted by Martina

That is simply not true. The Civil Rights Movement was not started by white middle class people. The Labor Movement was not. The LGBT rights movement was not. The Disability Rights movement was not. Anti-Apartheid was not. Indiginous Peoples Movements were not. And on and on.

And you are very misinformed and ignorant of the facts! I have taught social problems and movements for many years. Look up middle-class leisure time variables and social movements in the united states and most certainly the Second Wave of feminism. You are very much out of your league here.

Poor and working poor people are usually struggling to keep food on the table, work more than one job and don't have the all of the "free" time that the middle class has had.

[EnderD_503]

Originally Posted by AtLastHome

And you are very misinformed and ignorant of the facts! I have taught social problems and movements for many years. Look up middle-class leisure time variables and social movements in the united states and most certainly the Second Wave of feminism. You are very much out of your league here.

Poor and working poor people are usually struggling to keep food on the table, work more than one job and don't have the all of the "free" time that the middle class has had.

Eh. It depends on the movement. I agree that a great deal of rights movements were given breath by middle class people, but it wasn't the case in every movement of the early modern/modern era. Martina does have a point about certain movements she's mentioned: the birth of the Gay Rights movement, if we trace it from Stone Wall, stemmed from some of the most marginalized people of contemporary society (trans sex workers, drag queens, working or impoverished gay men) becoming fed up with police raids and mistreatment. Of course, the academics that gave a louder voice to the movement (though did not initiate it), were certainly indispensable.

Anti-Apartheid was a mixed bag, and without black South Africans and white South Africans coming together there would not have been as great a success. Same can be said for the Civil Rights movement in the US.

There are quite a few rights movements and revolutions out there that had little to do with white middle class people. At the same time, many rights movements also required the involvement of white middle class academics in particular (the feminist movement as you mentioned. Without middle class white women in particular, there would be no feminist movement, either first or second wave), in order to gain widespread success.

The poor not having leisure time to think of acting on their own oppression is not as true in the 20th century as it was in the 19th and 18th centuries (and before, of course). Especially in groups that were frequently the targets of regular state violence and brutality.

I'm not sure it's a generalisation that can be applied to all movements, is what I'm trying to say.

[dykeumentary]

Originally Posted by AtLastHome

And you are very misinformed and ignorant of the facts! I have taught social problems and movements for many years. Look up middle-class leisure time variables and social movements in the united states and most certainly the Second Wave of feminism. You are very much out of your league here.

Poor and working poor people are usually struggling to keep food on the table, work more than one job and don't have the all of the "free" time that the middle class has had.

Whoa.
"Very misinformed," "ignorant," and "out of your league"?
Is this CNN or a social website?

An example that comes to mind right off the bat is the struggle of Indigenous Peoples in North America. I'm a working person, so probably someone who teaches knows more than I do, but I'm pretty sure that First Nation people have been fighting for their continued existence since they first had contact with European people. I'm guessing that makes them the longest-fighting resistance here, even without the help of the white middle class. This thread does have the word "Occupy" in it's title.

Seems like if the white middle class is writing the script, they might be giving themselves a starrng role, and set the definitions? My view of history leads me to think the white middle class is best at looking after it's own interests. Most of the time that's involved complacency. I think disenfranchised people have shown a lot of energy and inventiveness working on their own behalf. I think that's one of the reasons the NYPD has to use terrorism to discourage resistance.

[AtLast]

Originally Posted by dykeumentary

Whoa.
"Very misinformed," "ignorant," and "out of your league"?
Is this CNN or a social website?

An example that comes to mind right off the bat is the struggle of Indigenous Peoples in North America. I'm a working person, so probably someone who teaches knows more than I do, but I'm pretty sure that First Nation people have been fighting for their continued existence since they first had contact with European people. I'm guessing that makes them the longest-fighting resistance here, even without the help of the white middle class. This thread does have the word "Occupy" in it's title.

Seems like if the white middle class is writing the script, they might be giving themselves a starrng role, and set the definitions? My view of history leads me to think the white middle class is best at looking after it's own interests. Most of the time that's involved complacency. I think disenfranchised people have shown a lot of energy and inventiveness working on their own behalf. I think that's one of the reasons the NYPD has to use terrorism to discourage resistance.

Go and research social movement beginnings in the US other than early union movements. This is about the fact that so many social movements having to deal with the absence of POC and working-class and the poor being represented. I am actually talking about the fact that middle-class people have historically been able to "take the time" to get organized because of what the poor and working class deal with in terms of survival.

Later, this fact was most certainly brought to the forefront as so many of the variable, let's say for the Women's Movements did not address issues of WOC or poor women. Of course, POC and working poor began to say- "Hey, this does not comsider what is important to me." Then, made their issues known. There are many, many early and later strong social movement leaders from other classes and races. Many splits were made due to these kinds of issues and the lack of knowledge of white, middle class activists in terms of POC.

I am coming from a sociological perspective of the demographics of social movements as they are documented. It is about the mechanics of social movements.

In the 60's it was college students, mainly white that were faced with the draft during the Vietnam War that were at the center of that movement to stop that war. At that time, there were far, far, far fewer POC in college at all as well as in good paying jobs with good benefits and the means to get out there.

And again, as a sociological paradigm, it is very difficult for people that cannot just up and run out with a poster at their leisure to a demonstration, Consequently, those that could, did.

I brought this up in response to posts about the lack of POC at many of the Occupy Wall Street demonstrations- which isn't entirely true. However, given the severity of unemployment today, especially with POC, things like transportation, child care, and just lack of funds would have a big impact and it is higher among POC. For example, in Richmond, a city near me, the rate of unemployment for Latinos and African Americans is more than double than for whites. Most have been unemployed long term which really causes a decline in resources as simple as having money to take a bus, let alone have a car.

This is not about middle-class whites are the activists and POC have not taken their rightful place in social movement organization and effectiveness. That is absolutely not what I was saying at all.