OCCUPY WALL STREET

[AtLast]

Originally Posted by atomiczombie

What do you think accounts for the low black and latino turnout at these rallies?

This ineresting as I have read a couple of blubs to the contrary. In SF, those that have gathered have been represented by POC quite clearly. Maybe because CA is a border state to Mexico? Or, is it just a SF thing?

The article Snow posted certainly points to how the mortgage lending practices and ensuing foreclosure rates hit POC in much higher numbers than whites.

It also can be atributed to the fact that historically, social movements tend to begin among white, middle class people. In the past this has been due to a very simple factor- they could have more "leisure" time. Although, since the recession has crossed economic and racial lines and is continuing to do so, my guess is that this social movement will keep climbing in numbers of POC and run across class status in ways we may have never seen before.

I wonder if one of the main reasons there are less Latinos involved in public demomstrations is also in play. Fear of harrassment about legal status. I was thinking earlier today after looking at the site that has the schedule of these demonstrations all over the US about cities in AZ and other states that have passed legislation about police being able to just demand documents from people. How the hell will Latinos, many of whom have had foreclosures, feel about participating?

It may very well be that since more and more white, middle-class people are feeling the effects of long term unemployment in much higher numbers and also would be among higher percentages of people that have bank accounts and credit cards as well as mortgages, etc. People that suffer with chronic unemployment and have been dealing with the poverty level in their lives don't use banks (usually can't even get an account due to poor credit scores) or have credit cards. If they do, they are of the type that the person fills themselves and is really not an extension of credit (the pre-paid cards).

My hope is that this will be a movement in which all that are angry with how people are being taken advantaged of by big banks and public corporations can join together and not get diverted by "how many of what color is out here today." That's another thing, this is a revolving movement in which people demonstrate on dats they can and not on others. Demonstartors are revolving in and out as they can with their own obligations. So, there are different people every day of the demonstrations.

I'm just throwing out some possibilities here- and I am going to go look for the links of articles that state that there is a good turn-out in various areas of POC.

[Martina]

Originally Posted by AtLastHome

It also can be atributed to the fact that historically, social movements tend to begin among white, middle class people.

That is simply not true. The Civil Rights Movement was not started by white middle class people. The Labor Movement was not. The LGBT rights movement was not. The Disability Rights movement was not. Anti-Apartheid was not. Indiginous Peoples Movements were not. And on and on.

[AtLast]

Originally Posted by Martina

That is simply not true. The Civil Rights Movement was not started by white middle class people. The Labor Movement was not. The LGBT rights movement was not. The Disability Rights movement was not. Anti-Apartheid was not. Indiginous Peoples Movements were not. And on and on.

And you are very misinformed and ignorant of the facts! I have taught social problems and movements for many years. Look up middle-class leisure time variables and social movements in the united states and most certainly the Second Wave of feminism. You are very much out of your league here.

Poor and working poor people are usually struggling to keep food on the table, work more than one job and don't have the all of the "free" time that the middle class has had.

[EnderD_503]

Originally Posted by AtLastHome

And you are very misinformed and ignorant of the facts! I have taught social problems and movements for many years. Look up middle-class leisure time variables and social movements in the united states and most certainly the Second Wave of feminism. You are very much out of your league here.

Poor and working poor people are usually struggling to keep food on the table, work more than one job and don't have the all of the "free" time that the middle class has had.

Eh. It depends on the movement. I agree that a great deal of rights movements were given breath by middle class people, but it wasn't the case in every movement of the early modern/modern era. Martina does have a point about certain movements she's mentioned: the birth of the Gay Rights movement, if we trace it from Stone Wall, stemmed from some of the most marginalized people of contemporary society (trans sex workers, drag queens, working or impoverished gay men) becoming fed up with police raids and mistreatment. Of course, the academics that gave a louder voice to the movement (though did not initiate it), were certainly indispensable.

Anti-Apartheid was a mixed bag, and without black South Africans and white South Africans coming together there would not have been as great a success. Same can be said for the Civil Rights movement in the US.

There are quite a few rights movements and revolutions out there that had little to do with white middle class people. At the same time, many rights movements also required the involvement of white middle class academics in particular (the feminist movement as you mentioned. Without middle class white women in particular, there would be no feminist movement, either first or second wave), in order to gain widespread success.

The poor not having leisure time to think of acting on their own oppression is not as true in the 20th century as it was in the 19th and 18th centuries (and before, of course). Especially in groups that were frequently the targets of regular state violence and brutality.

I'm not sure it's a generalisation that can be applied to all movements, is what I'm trying to say.

[dykeumentary]

Originally Posted by AtLastHome

And you are very misinformed and ignorant of the facts! I have taught social problems and movements for many years. Look up middle-class leisure time variables and social movements in the united states and most certainly the Second Wave of feminism. You are very much out of your league here.

Poor and working poor people are usually struggling to keep food on the table, work more than one job and don't have the all of the "free" time that the middle class has had.

Whoa.
"Very misinformed," "ignorant," and "out of your league"?
Is this CNN or a social website?

An example that comes to mind right off the bat is the struggle of Indigenous Peoples in North America. I'm a working person, so probably someone who teaches knows more than I do, but I'm pretty sure that First Nation people have been fighting for their continued existence since they first had contact with European people. I'm guessing that makes them the longest-fighting resistance here, even without the help of the white middle class. This thread does have the word "Occupy" in it's title.

Seems like if the white middle class is writing the script, they might be giving themselves a starrng role, and set the definitions? My view of history leads me to think the white middle class is best at looking after it's own interests. Most of the time that's involved complacency. I think disenfranchised people have shown a lot of energy and inventiveness working on their own behalf. I think that's one of the reasons the NYPD has to use terrorism to discourage resistance.

[AtLast]

Originally Posted by dykeumentary

Whoa.
"Very misinformed," "ignorant," and "out of your league"?
Is this CNN or a social website?

An example that comes to mind right off the bat is the struggle of Indigenous Peoples in North America. I'm a working person, so probably someone who teaches knows more than I do, but I'm pretty sure that First Nation people have been fighting for their continued existence since they first had contact with European people. I'm guessing that makes them the longest-fighting resistance here, even without the help of the white middle class. This thread does have the word "Occupy" in it's title.

Seems like if the white middle class is writing the script, they might be giving themselves a starrng role, and set the definitions? My view of history leads me to think the white middle class is best at looking after it's own interests. Most of the time that's involved complacency. I think disenfranchised people have shown a lot of energy and inventiveness working on their own behalf. I think that's one of the reasons the NYPD has to use terrorism to discourage resistance.

Go and research social movement beginnings in the US other than early union movements. This is about the fact that so many social movements having to deal with the absence of POC and working-class and the poor being represented. I am actually talking about the fact that middle-class people have historically been able to "take the time" to get organized because of what the poor and working class deal with in terms of survival.

Later, this fact was most certainly brought to the forefront as so many of the variable, let's say for the Women's Movements did not address issues of WOC or poor women. Of course, POC and working poor began to say- "Hey, this does not comsider what is important to me." Then, made their issues known. There are many, many early and later strong social movement leaders from other classes and races. Many splits were made due to these kinds of issues and the lack of knowledge of white, middle class activists in terms of POC.

I am coming from a sociological perspective of the demographics of social movements as they are documented. It is about the mechanics of social movements.

In the 60's it was college students, mainly white that were faced with the draft during the Vietnam War that were at the center of that movement to stop that war. At that time, there were far, far, far fewer POC in college at all as well as in good paying jobs with good benefits and the means to get out there.

And again, as a sociological paradigm, it is very difficult for people that cannot just up and run out with a poster at their leisure to a demonstration, Consequently, those that could, did.

I brought this up in response to posts about the lack of POC at many of the Occupy Wall Street demonstrations- which isn't entirely true. However, given the severity of unemployment today, especially with POC, things like transportation, child care, and just lack of funds would have a big impact and it is higher among POC. For example, in Richmond, a city near me, the rate of unemployment for Latinos and African Americans is more than double than for whites. Most have been unemployed long term which really causes a decline in resources as simple as having money to take a bus, let alone have a car.

This is not about middle-class whites are the activists and POC have not taken their rightful place in social movement organization and effectiveness. That is absolutely not what I was saying at all.

[Corkey]

On the news, ABC and MSNBC when they were showing the protesters I saw a mix of races, many many young and many many women. Sorry not into tallying the numbers. I know our city has a protest to be staged, no one has intimated it's only for white people. So far it is mostly academics doing the talking however. Not many poor people have access to computers outside of work or school, so when it is staged the poor may just well join.

[Dominique]

Originally Posted by Corkey

Not many poor people have access to computers outside of work or school, so when it is staged the poor may just well join.

Computers and the internet are free at all libraries, career link provides the same free services. Most YMCA's and YWCA's have compter labs and the use is free. Dress for Success, (a woman's back to work program) has a no charge computer lab.....computer access, to folks who can not afford it, is readily available, if one wants it. just saying.

[MsMerrick]

AtLast, I disagree with your general statement. If you wanted to reword it to s say that often a movement caught fire or got media recognition, when it was taken over by the white middle class..I "might" agree. But I remind you that "historical facts" are reported by the white middle class..Particularly going back to the 50's and for many years forward, whites were pretty much the only people recognized as being a story !

[AtLast]

Originally Posted by MsMerrick

AtLast, I disagree with your general statement. If you wanted to reword it to s say that often a movement caught fire or got media recognition, when it was taken over by the white middle class..I "might" agree. But I remind you that "historical facts" are reported by the white middle class..Particularly going back to the 50's and for many years forward, whites were pretty much the only people recognized as being a story !

I can live this. Although, one has to study the key organizer's biographical information. Middle-class does not only contain white people would be another point I would like to make. Funny how we take don't recognize POC that are middle or also upper-middle-class.

But, I certainly see your point about what was/is considered a "news story." I am thinking about things like the Natalee Holloway case, or the Lacy Peterson case. There was months and months of in depth media coverage on both of these from the start- just when they were both "missing persons."

How many POC cases are covered like that? In fact, an African American woman's body was discovered at the very same area Lacy & Connor Peterson's was and it got little attention.

[The_Lady_Snow]

I don't know the numbers of how many Latinos are showing up at these protests I'm reading and listening to my Latino based sources be they media, radio, articles and they are encouraging us to make a stance and show up at these protests with caution. The caution comes from when a person who is not white gets arrested their process is a teeny tiny bit harder when it comes to making bail I myself know this from being arrested at peaceful protests and having been treated a lil rougher cause I'm Latina and gay, this weekend I hope that many many peoples that aren't white show up to Occupy Jacksonville I have a feeling it won't be so multicultural though.

[SoNotHer]

"In the less than three weeks since protesters first converged in lower Manhattan, similar demonstrations have already cropped up in Boston, Chicago, Los Angeles and other U.S. cities, and organizers in dozens of other countries – including Canada – say they will do the same. Here’s what you need to know about the movement."


http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...rticle2193829/

[MsMerrick]

Originally Posted by AtLastHome

I can live this. Although, one has to study the key organizer's biographical information. Middle-class does not only contain white people would be another point I would like to make. Funny how we take don't recognize POC that are middle or also upper-middle-class.

.

Perhaps you do not, but I certainly do, and that would be why I specifically mentioned White.

[SoNotHer]

Ah, as if I needed confirmation that the OWS movement was touching a nerve and on track:

From http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/1..._n_999853.html

WASHINGTON -- Top House GOP leaders assured attendees at the 2011 Values Voter Summit Friday morning that despite all the attention on fixing the nation's economy, they remain committed to pushing the priorities of social conservatives, including defunding Planned Parenthood and defending the Defense of Marriage Act (DOMA) in court.