OCCUPY WALL STREET

[Ebon]

This is a video of the actual tear gas....

It's like a war zone. http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/video?id=8405794

[greeneyedgrrl]

yeah.. it's scary. it isn't that bad where i'm at... but most of the protesters here are middle aged white folks and i think that makes a big difference in the pd's response.. plus it's much smaller here. we're lucky if we get 100 people.

[greeneyedgrrl]

oakland's "finest" gassing a woman in a wheelchair
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...type=1&theater

[Ebon]

Well they cut the live feed from fox then turned it back on 5 minutes after everything happened.

[greeneyedgrrl]

grrrrr.

Originally Posted by Ebon

Well they cut the live feed from fox then turned it back on 5 minutes after everything happened.

[greeneyedgrrl]

mayor jean quan's statement on police action today... she characterizes it as "generally peaceful"... gotta wonder what "downright violent" looks like in her world.

https://www.facebook.com/MayorJeanQu...91025897588660

[Ebon]

Originally Posted by greeneyedgrrl

mayor jean quan's statement on police action today... she characterizes it as "generally peaceful"... gotta wonder what "downright violent" looks like in her world.

https://www.facebook.com/MayorJeanQu...91025897588660

I can't even believe she said that shit.

[greeneyedgrrl]

right?!??

Originally Posted by Ebon

I can't even believe she said that shit.

[SoNotHer]

Unbelievable. Guess we're finding out what it feels to live in an American-occupied country.

A friend just wrote me that there are a lot of tents and protestors in SF - the most she's ever seen.

Originally Posted by greeneyedgrrl

oakland's "finest" gassing a woman in a wheelchair
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...type=1&theater

[greeneyedgrrl]

so pissed i'm not there :/

Originally Posted by SoNotHer

Unbelievable. Guess we're finding out what it feels to live in an American-occupied country.

A friend just wrote me that there are a lot of tents and protestors in SF - the most she's ever seen.

[persiphone]

Originally Posted by Ebon

This is a video of the actual tear gas....

It's like a war zone. http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/video?id=8405794

no it IS a war zone. except the people being fired on aren't armed.

[AtLast]

What I am not understanding about what is going on in Oakland (a few miles South of me) is that the whole sanitation thing has been handled differently across many of the OWS protest areas across the states. In NYC, those protesting cleaned up the area themselves and all involved (demonstrators, city hall and police & fire) worked through these issues in a peaceful manner. There are usual and customary and scheduled cleaning methods used by towns and cities to keep parks clean and stop the spread of disease. These duties are performed by public employees that need their jobs.

I do just as a citizen have some issues about actual camps being set up in parks without having sanitation facilities also being set up along with people not littering or taking park space from usual visitors. for example, many elderly people gather to play chess and checkers in public parks and socialize on an every day basis. They ought to be able to use a public park in this way without being shoved out due to the protests.

I think that in some cases (not all), that homeless people are joining in because it is a way to set up a tent somewhere and blend in- and actually be in a safer (and warmer at night) environment. And no, I am not saying that all homeless people would not be part of such protests. Hell, there is a rise in homelessness that comes along with such high unemployment rates. Also, there are never enough beds or enough meals for the homeless as it is as provided by organizations that offer help to them.

I have been in many, many protests through the years and organizing sanitation as well as emergency contingency plans ate critical for long term protests. usually, permits are required that call for these kinds of contingencies. The fact is that hundreds of people in one area does pose health issues if things are not done to prevent these problems via public health practices.

There have been many nearby businesses in Oakland that do not want to continue to have non-customers use their restrooms. They have a right to feel this way as they are the ones that clean and maintain their restrooms and also want their restrooms to be used by customers.

I back this movement and want it to grow into something that effects voting and change that reflects the 99%. I don't want violent outbreaks in which people are injured, including police officers.

I don't get why the Oakland demonstrators and all involved couldn't come up with some of the same procedures as the NYC people did that made it so that the park was cleaned and the demonstrations could go on. Why not have an agreed amount of time that demonstrators leave and the cleaning is done- and also demonstrators making sure trash and litter is picked up?

I am also wondering about how at first, OWS participants came to designated areas and protested, then went home.. then came back on a daily basis. people were really rotating in and out of the protests, not living there.

Just seems like there are solutions available so that violence does not break out. I could not have all of the facts about the Oakland situation, however. I do know that if a group took over the dog park I use everyday in a way that I could not use it as a citizen, I wouldn’t like it. I have gone over to SF and participated in OWS, and then came home. I will do this again. Yet, so many people have lost their homes and jobs throughout all that has gone on with the 1% screwing common people, setting up tent cities may be a much more pointed way to draw attention to what has happened to so many… having to live in tents or cars and losing jobs.

[Nat]

I identify with and agree with the protesters on pretty much all I've heard, though I haven't followed the protests closely enough to offer any insights here that haven't already been offered.

I think the term "Occupy" wasn't the best term due to US history and present of occupation.

It doesn't surprise me that some groups are more organized than others. Protests often inconvenience people - but I don't think I'd mind much if I were inconvenienced. (Not a single Occupy Temple protestor, I'm afraid).

I've been to protests that last an evening - maybe a late-afternoon til midnight. In those cases, all I had to do was show up (in Sacramento, protesting Prop 8 just after it was passed). These were not super-planned, but they weren't forever-protests. We went home, went to bed, and went about our business the next day. I'm impressed people are able to hold out so long. These sort of protests taking place require a support network - not just people who show up. My impression is the original protest was extremely well-planned, and probably has the most *professional* protestors. (I have a few friends who - though neither would claim the title - would qualify as professional. They are a bit snotty when regular folks attempt to protest - with no experience, no direction, etc. Anyway, they know the drill, they know what they'll need, they know to pick up after themselves, they are super-trained for dealing with cops, they understand the resources for support, the network of couches to surf, lawyers willing to support them if needed. They are well-practiced and well-trained). Anyway, I think regular folks just show up and there is no training and no preparation - and that's okay if you're talking about an afternoon or evening of protest. If protestors need more support in some areas, then they need more support.

I hope I'm making sense - I just woke up. I wanted to write last night, but ended up reading and watching the youtubes posted here. It was nice to hear Naomi Wolf talk - haven't heard her in a while.

I took a sociology class in college - "the sociology of deviance." I thought it was going to be nice and juicy, but instead the entire class focused on corporate deviance with an eye to Enron. I found the reading extreeeeemely tedious. But, I'm glad now I took the class. I wish I'd retained more of what I read. I am glad so many people can be so motivated for such a long period of time to protest what has been a long history of corporate crime, violation and injury at the expense of those who can least recover from it.

I hear alarm bells with people switching their banks on November 5th. When I think of masses of people withdrawing money from a bank, when you know they don't have the cash at hand to pay for it, it just reminds me of that Mary Poppins scene about the run on the bank. I am somewhat concerned that certain actions could plunge us into a (worse) depression and there might be a certain element of cutting-off-our-noses-to-spite-our-faces going on. The banks deserve it, but I do wonder what the long-term ramifications will be for people.

I think it's shitty anywhere it's illegal to be homeless.

[persiphone]

i've come to the conclusion that i'm against the idea of having to get a (or 47) permit(s) to protest. free speech and freedom to assemble has become a victim to overpermitization. (is that a word?) especially in areas that the public pays for. it's a little ridiculous and it's the grounds Naomi was arrested on.

about the name. i understand the issue with the name. however, i couldn't care less if they called it Shit On A Stick, as long as it invokes positive changes.

[Dominique]

The *Occupied Cities* seem to all be different. Albeit, the cause is the same. Tent city, here in Pgh. is less than 20 tents. Ironic that the small patch of grass they are [occupying] is owned by Mellon Bank (part of BNY). Mellon Bank has given them permission to be there. The area is clean. I haven't heard of this being an issue. The majority of the people go home each night and return each day. Some, like me, have jobs and other things going on and can only participate on a limited basis. Therefore, the size of the crowds vary. The Pgh. Police are near by but have not interrupted any of the demonstrations. All have been described as *peaceful*. The ACLU has been on the television saying it is keeping a watchful eye on what is going on.

The messages are getting out. There are plenty. I don't think there is a right way or a wrong way. As long as this movement is getting peoples attention. Giving people something to think about. This entire state is in extreme financial hardship, Harrisburg, our Capitol, may not be able to pay it's bills until the end of the year. Lot's of people are loosing jobs because of Goverment free wheeling. People want answers. Tent cities send a message.

[SoNotHer]

From Zinn's A People's History of the United States -

http://www.historyisaweapon.com/defc...nselhel15.html

These people were becoming "dangerous," as Steinbeck said. The spirit of rebellion was growing. Mauritz Hallgren, in a 1933 book, Seeds of Revolt, compiled newspaper reports of things happening around the country:

England, Arkansas, January 3, 1931. The long drought that ruined hundreds of Arkansas farms last summer had a dramatic sequel late today when some 500 farmers, most of them white men and many of them armed, marched on the business section of this town. .. . Shouting that they must have food for themselves and their families, the invaders announced their intention to take it from the stores unless it were provided from some other source without cost.

Detroit, July 9, 1931. An incipient riot by 500 unemployed men turned out of the city lodging house for lack of funds was quelled by police reserves in Cadillac Square tonight. . ..

Indiana Harbor, Indiana, August 5, 1931. Fifteen hundred jobless men stormed the plant of the Fruit Growers Express Company here, demanding that they be given jobs to keep from starving. The company's answer was to call the city police, who routed the jobless with menacing clubs.

Boston, November 10, 1931. Twenty persons were treated for injuries, three were hurt so seriously that they may die, and dozens of others were nursing wounds from flying bottles, lead pipe, and stones after clashes between striking longshoremen and Negro strikebreakers along the Charlestown-East Boston waterfront.

Detroit, November 28, 1931. A mounted patrolman was hit on the head with a stone and unhorsed and one demonstrator was arrested during a disturbance in Grand Circus Park this morning when 2000 men and women met there in defiance of police orders.

Chicago, April 1, 1932. Five hundred school children, most with haggard faces and in tattered clothes, paraded through Chicago's downtown section to the Board of Education offices to demand that the school system provide them with food.

Boston, June 3, 1932. Twenty-five hungry children raided a buffet lunch set up for Spanish War veterans during a Boston parade. Two automobile-loads of police were called to drive them away.

New York, January 21, 1933. Several hundred jobless surrounded a restaurant just off Union Square today demanding they be fed without charge.. . .

Seattle, February 16, 1933. A two-day siege of the County-City Building, occupied by an army of about 5,000 unemployed, was ended early tonight, deputy sheriffs and police evicting the demonstrators after nearly two hours of efforts.

Yip Harburg, the songwriter, told Studs Terkel about the year 1932: "I was walking along the street at that time, and you'd see the bread lines. The biggest one in New York City was owned by William Randolph Hearst. He had a big truck with several people on it, and big cauldrons of hot soup, bread. Fellows with burlap on their feet were lined up all around Columbus Circle, and went for blocks and blocks around the park, waiting." Harburg had to write a song for the show Americana. He wrote "Brother, Can You Spare a Dime?"

Once in khaki suits.

Gee, we looked swell,

Full of that Yankee Doodle-de-dum.

Half a million boots went sloggin' through Hell,

I was the kid with the drum.

Say, don't you remember, they called me Al-

It was Al all the time.

Say, don't you remember I'm your pal-

Brother, can you spare a dime?

[Ebon]

[Ebon]

Originally Posted by persiphone

i've come to the conclusion that i'm against the idea of having to get a (or 47) permit(s) to protest. free speech and freedom to assemble has become a victim to overpermitization. (is that a word?) especially in areas that the public pays for. it's a little ridiculous and it's the grounds Naomi was arrested on.

about the name. i understand the issue with the name. however, i couldn't care less if they called it Shit On A Stick, as long as it invokes positive changes.

Here is their permit.

"When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

Moving on.

[Ebon]

Austin still going strong even after this incident. I love the way the news handled it.

[AtLast]

Originally Posted by persiphone

i've come to the conclusion that i'm against the idea of having to get a (or 47) permit(s) to protest. free speech and freedom to assemble has become a victim to overpermitization. (is that a word?) especially in areas that the public pays for. it's a little ridiculous and it's the grounds Naomi was arrested on.

about the name. i understand the issue with the name. however, i couldn't care less if they called it Shit On A Stick, as long as it invokes positive changes.

I see your point about permits and I also want safety for all as well as sanitary conditions to exist at protests. Sometimes someone gets sick and needs an ambulance. There has to be a way for the ambulance to get to them and get them on their way to a hospital, for example.

And I don't see a problem with having demonstrators disperse for public works employees to do their clean up jobs. Parks are continually maintained and cleaned by these kinds of departments and power washing is used all of the time. Then, everyone can come back.

I don't agree with the camping out as it leads to many more sanitation problems. For everyone- and disease is spread this way. There are many people including homeless folks that do not have good healthcare (one of our complaints), have compromised immune systems or other chronic illness in which contracting stash or hepatitis is more likely, thus, potentially threatening the health of others. This just happens in large crowd situations no matter who the people gathering are.

In a socially democratic society, we care about the health and well being of others. So, in exercising our rights to protest for the "good of the common people," shouldn't we consider how to best control the spread of germs, etc.?

LOL, yes, I am a germ-phobe, although it comes naturally as a person with an audio-immune cluster that I know compromises me in these kinds of situations. I wash my hands a lot! Don't even think about eating off of my plate or sharing a beverage. And if someone is coughing or sneezing, I'm gone. It isn't just a common cold that I could get. And I am just one of millions of people in the US dealing with this. I will be a real mess if I have to evacuate to a dorm situation or tent city during an earthquake! Consider the fact that homeless people may very well have poor health and not be able to fight off a common cold or become very ill with a flu strain. They don't even get decent general medical care as it is and most that have mental illnesses are not on needed medications in any consistent manner. They are at high risk.

It looks like in Oakland, the demonstrators are free to come back to the park after it is cleaned. However, they will not be allowed to camp-out or demonstrate after dark. I agree with Aj on the whole occupied land thing and the fact that unless one is Native American, they don't really have a right to take over any public space.

Does anyone know if these are now common procedures that are being put in place in other cities in the US where there are OWS protests. Also, have there been more efforts get a balance between the demonstrators and the jobs public works employees need to do with maintaining a public park. Frankly, I don't see the need for violence on either side of this if cool heads prevail. There have to be common sense solutions to keeping this peaceful and safe so that the real points of this assembly is realized.

I was arrested more than once back in the 70's while protesting- and I usually caught a cold after protesting. It's kind of like going into a classroom with a bunch of little kids with runny noses. Back then I didn't have the same health concerns, however. I am still going to some of these, but I won't be setting up camp.