Trans News/ Issues

[Toughy]

I don't get it either. Hell I don't get the problem with 'tranny' but then I live in the Bay Area and hear transfolks call themselves 'tranny' all the time.

The voice reference most likely has to do with the changes in voice that occur with the use of T (and E). Is it offensive to make fun of a teenage boy when his voice cracks as it changes? It's the same cracking/change I hear when transmen start taking T. Would folks be upset if a transman had made the same joke?

There are ways of saying the same thing in an offensive way or in a non-offensive way. I did not see this as offensive in the way he said it....but offense is in the eye of the beholder.

[atomiczombie]

Well, I don't think he meant anything by it, but it is less than sensitive to the trans people out there who do take offense to the word, and there are plenty of them. I personally don't like the word 'tranny' because it does get used by non-trans people in derogatory ways. If some trans people want to use it as a self-descriptor, that's fine and their right to do so. But I think it would be great if more people, especially in the LGBT community, were aware that it does have that very negative connotation for many transfolks.

[kannon]

I watched the video and it had zero effect on me. I didn't feel offended. IMO, Neil was just making a joke. Yeah, it was at the expense of trans but I know I've sounded pretty funny. It's not a bad thing. If I can't laugh at myself then I'm gonna spend a lot of time being pissed and self-conscious.

It's a pain in the ass when I can't get a loan because the dude on the phone doesn't believe my voice matches up with the rest of my credit info (I'm still listed as female). That really sucked. I have credit with discover. I tried to get a personal loan through them over the phone. I got a letter a few days after I applied saying they could not verify my id. WTF. I just laughed. Obviously, I didn't need the money.

[Ebon]

Originally Posted by kannon

I watched the video and it had zero effect on me. I didn't feel offended. IMO, Neil was just making a joke. Yeah, it was at the expense of trans but I know I've sounded pretty funny. It's not a bad thing. If I can't laugh at myself then I'm gonna spend a lot of time being pissed and self-conscious.

Exactly, for me personally it's a waste of energy. There will always be someone that doesn't understand or that wants to hate for the sake of being hateful. If I sat around getting offended by every little thing someone said I would live a sad existence. There is a huge difference between someone being right out hateful and someone making a joke. Either way fuck em. I'm not going to let them bring me to their level.

[kannon]

Originally Posted by Ebon

Exactly, for me personally it's a waste of energy. There will always be someone that doesn't understand or that wants to hate for the sake of being hateful. If I sat around getting offended by every little thing someone said I would live a sad existence. There is a huge difference between someone being right out hateful and someone making a joke. Either way fuck em. I'm not going to let them bring me to their level.

I agree. I would have been offended if he had used some derogative descriptor like "I sound like a trannie freak. Now no one will ever take me seriously. "

[Sachita]

Originally Posted by Ebon

Exactly, for me personally it's a waste of energy. There will always be someone that doesn't understand or that wants to hate for the sake of being hateful. If I sat around getting offended by every little thing someone said I would live a sad existence. There is a huge difference between someone being right out hateful and someone making a joke. Either way fuck em. I'm not going to let them bring me to their level.

well said and very true.

[Leigh]

I can see both sides here; I can see how it would be offensive but I can also see how some people won't be offended by it. I'm not at all going to defend Neil because even though he's a gay man and a hell of an actor, he still should have watched the words he used because yes some people will be offended and in this day and age we really have to watch our choice of words. If this was say 20 or more years ago no one would even bat an eyelash, but now a days its so easy to offend people so in reality its always best to watch what we say in general

[EnderD_503]

Originally Posted by Matthew

I can see both sides here; I can see how it would be offensive but I can also see how some people won't be offended by it. I'm not at all going to defend Neil because even though he's a gay man and a hell of an actor, he still should have watched the words he used because yes some people will be offended and in this day and age we really have to watch our choice of words. If this was say 20 or more years ago no one would even bat an eyelash, but now a days its so easy to offend people so in reality its always best to watch what we say in general

I'm sorry, I'm just really surprised by comments like this and others about it being "so easy to offend people these days." It just sounds a lot like what right wingers say when anyone tries to stick up for the rights of marginalized people. Edit, I also want to mention that it has nothing to do with us being "more easily offended" than in the past. It's that today our rights have extended to a degree where we can even have a voice. In the past, trans people were not exactly thrilled by the treatment and "jokes" against our community. There are many transwomen especially who write about their experiences in the 60s and 70s. But back then, they didn't have the rights nor the voice to ever challenge it through any medium that would reach the mainstream. Nobody would have cared.

As far as the comments about it being "just a joke" and him "not meaning it," I also find that a little surprising to hear to say the least. Those kinds of defenses are also used to defend misogynist jokes. Often when men make sexist jokes against women they claim it to be "just a joke" and not to "mean anything by it." Same with those who claim its "just a joke" when they make homophobic jokes. Often joking about a group that is less privileged than you are emphasises that privilege.

I remember there was a topic awhile ago, maybe a year or more, about a comedy skit about lesbian "cougars." At the time I remember taking the stance that it was satiric. While I still think that it partially was satiric, I've now certainly changed my perspective as far as the misogyny and homophobia present in that "comedy." I'm seeing something similar here.

Transphobia, sexism, homophobia etc. in our society does not always take on a violent form, or a form where the perpetrator claims any direct ill will against the target group. Not everyone who is transphobic goes out and tries to physically harm trans people. I've seen many comments by cis people express disgust when they hear about the murder or assault of a transwoman, however, they still express that "even those these people are ill/deviants/lifestyle choice etc. etc. they don't deserve to be beaten." It's the same "hate the sin not the sinner" bullshit that has very damaging repercussions when it comes to how trans people are treated in every day life, outside of physical violence.

In our society transphobia, misogyny and homophobia are so ingrained in our ideals that people often don't even recognise it in themselves, and believe certain jokes and comments to be socially acceptable simply because they're the norm. I see jokes against trans people and other marginalised people as something serious, and especially when its performed by those who hold more social privilege.

I want to clarify again, as I have in the past in this thread and elsewhere, that I don't care if a trans person uses the word "tranny" as a personal identifier, just the way I don't care if a gay man identifies himself as a "fag." I do have a problem when cis people start calling trans people "trannies." It is an entirely different ball game. If a trans person assumed all trans people identified as "trannies" I would correct them. If a cis person made the same assumption I would correct them, but even more I would be weary that they even felt entitled enough to use that word to refer to trans people. Same with the word "fag" and other such terms.

As far as if I would be offended if a trans person had made the joke...yes I certainly would be. Being trans doesn't exempt you from being transphobic or having internalised transphobia, just the way being queer doesn't exempt you from being homophobic and having internalised homophobia. I've definitely witnessed a lot of internalised transphobia and self-hatred coming from trans people, and it's not something I support or see as conducive to establishing trans rights and respect in society. I'd also add that this observation is a big part of what motivated me to try to find trans communities that are more trans-positive, rather than always thinking others have the right to walk all over us and that we don't have the right to say anything about it.