only another butch would understand

[apretty]

Originally Posted by Galahad

http://www.xtra.ca/public/National/a...%20Coyote.aspx

I enjoy Ivan Coyote's articles on xtra . com, and this new one about "getting over the ex butch style" was no exception. Anyone else have any sure fire ways for getting over her and getting back out there? Any stories to tell?

1. get drunk
2. sleep with her bestfriend
3. call her (while you're still drunk) and confess
4. borrow your friend's big truck and drive all over her lawn
5. call her and cry
6. ask to be just friends
7. send her 40 text messages in one day
8. show up where you think she'll be
9. try to become her mom's/sister's/dad's new bestfriend.
10. record yourself singing a sad song and send it to her email
11. send her a dedication on the 'quiet storm'
12. get her name tattooed on your arm and then send her a picture of it
13. kidnap her dog and then help her suddenly, miraculously *find* said dog.
14. if she lives alone, send her a scary letter from anonymous and hope that she'll look to you for comfort
15. bake her a cake and give her a sketch that you've made of her face
16. if you have something that she's gave you, break it and send her the pieces.
17. write, '*her name* is a SLUT' on the side of a building that you know she'll see
18. sleep with her mom
19. sign her up for strange catalogues
20. ice cream

[apretty]

i have this super amazingly long chore list, feel me bros?

-a super butchy dress

i have to clean my room! and i have to re-pot a mint that Ez bought me! and i have to do the dishes that i made (cuz i promised i would)!

[Kast]

I'm starting to think it's all in the mindset of how we think and possibly do things? Here's an example:

This morning my lovely Kat had just woken up and we sit in the living room and have coffee and talk, etc. before we start our day. She keeps a box of kleenex on the end table in which I used the last one before she got there this morning. When she went to reach for one, there was just an empty box.

I immediately got up and offered to go to the bathroom to get her some toilet paper to blow her nose with. She corrected me by saying that there were kleenex in the bedroom. I went in there and saw the silver, metal box that holds the kleenex and decided to bring the whole thing. She laughs as I hand it to her and says... 'typical guy'.

I'm confused, I don't know what I've done, what's she talking about? She points out that a femme would have brought another femme 3 or 4 of the tissues through the midair to her. I thinking - 'really, they would have?' To transport the kleenex this way just didn't occur to me. And, I guess the more feminine mind would not have thought to blow their nose on the toilet paper to begin with?

I find the differences amusing.

[Kast]

Here's another example: I decided to help Kat with the laundry yesterday since I'm laundry spastic and figured I fold some towels, couldn't screw up too badly there? We keep them on an open shelf outside the shower and naturally, we have big and smaller ones.

I folded what I thought was all the big ones to put on the bottom of the stack... and then folded the smaller ones... I put them on the shelf - then, a big another big towel popped up from somewhere... I thought about re-arranging all of them to make it correct but since it was a reach and they looked so nice - I didn't want to disturb them... so I put the big towel on top of the smaller ones. It looked pretty precarious, like a tower of towels about to fall... but, I figured I'd be taking a shower soon and take care of that big one on top.

Kat walks into the bathroom today and starts laughing out loud... I say, 'What now?'... I'd already forgotten about it... lol I'm thinking she's lucky that she didn't find all the towels on the floor.

[Ashlea?]

Originally Posted by Kam

I'm starting to think it's all in the mindset of how we think and possibly do things? Here's an example:

This morning my lovely Kat had just woken up and we sit in the living room and have coffee and talk, etc. before we start our day. She keeps a box of kleenex on the end table in which I used the last one before she got there this morning. When she went to reach for one, there was just an empty box.

I immediately got up and offered to go to the bathroom to get her some toilet paper to blow her nose with. She corrected me by saying that there were kleenex in the bedroom. I went in there and saw the silver, metal box that holds the kleenex and decided to bring the whole thing. She laughs as I hand it to her and says... 'typical guy'.

I'm confused, I don't know what I've done, what's she talking about? She points out that a femme would have brought another femme 3 or 4 of the tissues through the midair to her. I thinking - 'really, they would have?' To transport the kleenex this way just didn't occur to me. And, I guess the more feminine mind would not have thought to blow their nose on the toilet paper to begin with?

I find the differences amusing.

I too have seen this with many "Femme" ladies. I'm just pissing in the wind but using your example, I think the women feel guys would have just grabbed the box without thinking about grabbing the needed amount. Kind of like the "Dur" effect I guess? I'm not sure. Mmm I shall investigate this further.

I am a traditional style ladygent, and I get this all the time from my femme partner and even straight women o.O, It's like they DON'T want to be respected which leads into society washing out decency towards women, or they are not used to it.

I'm rambling. Slap me next time and i'll stop.

Originally Posted by Kam

Here's another example: I decided to help Kat with the laundry yesterday since I'm laundry spastic and figured I fold some towels, couldn't screw up too badly there? We keep them on an open shelf outside the shower and naturally, we have big and smaller ones.

I folded what I thought was all the big ones to put on the bottom of the stack... and then folded the smaller ones... I put them on the shelf - then, a big another big towel popped up from somewhere... I thought about re-arranging all of them to make it correct but since it was a reach and they looked so nice - I didn't want to disturb them... so I put the big towel on top of the smaller ones. It looked pretty precarious, like a tower of towels about to fall... but, I figured I'd be taking a shower soon and take care of that big one on top.

Kat walks into the bathroom today and starts laughing out loud... I say, 'What now?'... I'd already forgotten about it... lol I'm thinking she's lucky that she didn't find all the towels on the floor.

I think THIS is a perfectionist querk. ALL of the women in my family are like this. If you're going to help fold laundry, set what you have done right in front of them but NOT ON THE OTHER CLOTHES. Dear god, you'll hear if it's the wrong place.

<- To blame for this post.

[Cyclopea]

Originally Posted by apretty

i have this super amazingly long chore list, feel me bros?

-a super butchy dress

i have to clean my room! and i have to re-pot a mint that Ez bought me! and i have to do the dishes that i made (cuz i promised i would)!

Need a tissue?

[apretty]

Originally Posted by Cyclopea

Need a tissue?

thank you for bringing me the whole box--'butch' way!

[Dude]

bake her a cake=========Vote for Pedro

[Stoney]

I have been reading this thread and I wanted to mention a previous thread right in the beginning. Ol'Jet you said something about being de- masculinized.. ( forgive me if I am saying it wrong) I noticed quite a few people who felt that that was more or less a male ID'd problem. I wanted to mention , that many years ago I was in a relationship with this woman , ( who first represented herself as a femme but really wasnt ,anyways that's another story ) This woman was something else, the butch- femme dynamic in the relationship pretty much flew outthe window the day I moved in with her. that day, I left my home and friends, traveled over 600 miles,had no sleep for days, unloaded a 18 foot truck full of my stuff and my kids into a garage! plus the whole 9 hour drive in a uhaul ( on my birthday) well I just sat down after all that , and I cried.She walked in the bedroom and looked at me and said ' HOPE YOU KNOW k how much you are turnin me off right now, I dont think Ill ever feel the same about you. Some fuckin butch! If I wanted a femme I would have stayed with my ex.( even though I am female Identified I have felt that pain , maybe not the same way but It was a huge blow for some reason, and i was effected by those words deeply. I was always having to prove my " butchiness" with her .

the relationship was very short lived after that day

It messed with my head a long time after that relationship ended. and for a long time every time I cried, her words would resurface.

now I am who I am, I cry, I laugh , I Burp( alot and very well I might add)

now it seems crazy that I let those words hurt me so much and question my very being.. but I definitely had a different mind set back then.

hope this relates,

always enjoy your posts Ol' Jet!

Stoney

[DapperButch]

Originally Posted by Kam

I'm starting to think it's all in the mindset of how we think and possibly do things? Here's an example:

This morning my lovely Kat had just woken up and we sit in the living room and have coffee and talk, etc. before we start our day. She keeps a box of kleenex on the end table in which I used the last one before she got there this morning. When she went to reach for one, there was just an empty box.

I immediately got up and offered to go to the bathroom to get her some toilet paper to blow her nose with. She corrected me by saying that there were kleenex in the bedroom. I went in there and saw the silver, metal box that holds the kleenex and decided to bring the whole thing. She laughs as I hand it to her and says... 'typical guy'.

I'm confused, I don't know what I've done, what's she talking about? She points out that a femme would have brought another femme 3 or 4 of the tissues through the midair to her. I thinking - 'really, they would have?' To transport the kleenex this way just didn't occur to me. And, I guess the more feminine mind would not have thought to blow their nose on the toilet paper to begin with?

I find the differences amusing.

Now, see, I would have brought her the box because I thought that this is what one is supposed to do because it is more sanitary than touching a person's tissues. At least I have always assumed that this is the reason why I have seen people bring other people the whole box instead of just a few. Plus, how am I to know how many she will need?

However, I will also say that I am pretty certain that I have only ever offered a woman some toilet paper to blow her nose when they have been in my house (I live alone). The reason? I never buy tissues...seems like a waste of money if you have toilet paper! And if someone is crying...I have been known to bring them the whole roll!

[AtLast]

Hummmm.... thinking I don't buy Kleenex/tissue either and live alone, but for the life of me, I just can't see most of this kind of stuff in relationship to my being butch. I might feel badly about not having some real tissue to offer but this has to do with courtesy, not my butchness.

Sure, I have had some only a butch/guy would do that from femmes. My first reaction is correcting the use of guy with me. Secondly, I have no connection to anything around de-masculinization and find it personally insulting. There is nothing to de, or emasculate with me. I am not a man and my masculine traits are just part of the female I am.

And if I had to somehow defend my butch identity based upon stereotypes of men and male behavior, I would be out the door!

No, this butch does not understand much of this. But, some of you do, so all is good. Sometimes when I ask my son (an adult) about some of these kinds of references to men/masculine traits as applied to butches, he just shakes his head..... and says he’s glad I’m the butch woman I am because all that man-crap is so oppressive. And yes, he would most likely go get his wife the box of tissues. It would be about not touching them before she used them (a cleanliness thang and not knowing how many she wants).

[Jet]

Originally Posted by Kam

I'm starting to think it's all in the mindset of how we think and possibly do things? Here's an example:

This morning my lovely Kat had just woken up and we sit in the living room and have coffee and talk, etc. before we start our day. She keeps a box of kleenex on the end table in which I used the last one before she got there this morning. When she went to reach for one, there was just an empty box.

I immediately got up and offered to go to the bathroom to get her some toilet paper to blow her nose with. She corrected me by saying that there were kleenex in the bedroom. I went in there and saw the silver, metal box that holds the kleenex and decided to bring the whole thing. She laughs as I hand it to her and says... 'typical guy'.

I'm confused, I don't know what I've done, what's she talking about? She points out that a femme would have brought another femme 3 or 4 of the tissues through the midair to her. I thinking - 'really, they would have?' To transport the kleenex this way just didn't occur to me. And, I guess the more feminine mind would not have thought to blow their nose on the toilet paper to begin with?

I find the differences amusing.

those differences are nothing to sneeze at

[Jet]

Originally Posted by DapperButch

Now, see, I would have brought her the box because I thought that this is what one is supposed to do because it is more sanitary than touching a person's tissues. At least I have always assumed that this is the reason why I have seen people bring other people the whole box instead of just a few. Plus, how am I to know how many she will need?

However, I will also say that I am pretty certain that I have only ever offered a woman some toilet paper to blow her nose when they have been in my house (I live alone). The reason? I never buy tissues...seems like a waste of money if you have toilet paper! And if someone is crying...I have been known to bring them the whole roll!

now see dapper, i keep kleenex on hand for guests—kind of like serving real butter at dinner. i live alone and if some woman fell into my lap crying i'd offer kleenex instead of toilet paper so she wouldn;'t think i was an ass wipe. lol

[DapperButch]

Originally Posted by Ol' Jet

now see dapper, i keep kleenex on hand for guests—kind of like serving real butter at dinner. i live alone and if some woman fell into my lap crying i'd offer kleenex instead of toilet paper so she wouldn;'t think i was an ass wipe. lol

This is quite funny.

Now do ya not think that I always end up wishing I had real tissues when I see any guest needing one in my home? Yeah, I know, obviously it doesn't impact me enough or I would be sure to have some on hand! I gots to remember this one...

[KayCee]

My goodness, next time I'll just use toilet paper to blow my nose and put the towels up myself, huh? It's not about id's, feeling insulted, non-respected or what ever or how to present a box of Kleenex. It's the different way we think/act what amuses us and as some would say, having typical male or female traits which lets us feel more butch or femme.

And the way my GUY and I feel comfortable with this or not, is between us.

Please, excuse me for 'infiltrating' your butch thread. I don't need this...really.

Kat

[I'mOneToo]

I don't go into threads that are specifically intended for femme discussion, although sometimes i do read them sometimes. I wouldn't comment about which mascara to use or what kind of purse or high heels they're discussing because it's not relevant to my life. I suppose I could make some smartass comments and ridicule those things just to see my words and try to get a reaction, but it would be a negative reaction.

By the same token, some threads such as this, which says "only another butch would understand", has a title that's a little vague. Maybe it should say "only a MALE *ID'd* BUTCH WOULD UNDERSTAND". Because now there's divisiveness about this type of butch might, and another type of butch might in fact NOT understand.

Then you may get a femme who does a drive-by that is purely designed to ridicule the thread and the people posting in it. That may get picked up by a butch who is not of the "understanding" persuasion, and it can get to be a free-for-all.

Maybe the name of the thread could be changed. Or, maybe people who can't identify with the topic could refrain from commenting and inciting others to continue in that divisive vein. But that's just my opinion, which IT, and 5 dollars, will get you a cafe mocha grande.

Kat, you did not infiltrate. I think have a right to have your say if you feel you are being maligned, in any thread.

[Jet]

Originally Posted by Stoney

I have been reading this thread and I wanted to mention a previous thread right in the beginning. Ol'Jet you said something about being de- masculinized.. ( forgive me if I am saying it wrong) I noticed quite a few people who felt that that was more or less a male ID'd problem. I wanted to mention , that many years ago I was in a relationship with this woman , ( who first represented herself as a femme but really wasnt ,anyways that's another story ) This woman was something else, the butch- femme dynamic in the relationship pretty much flew outthe window the day I moved in with her. that day, I left my home and friends, traveled over 600 miles,had no sleep for days, unloaded a 18 foot truck full of my stuff and my kids into a garage! plus the whole 9 hour drive in a uhaul ( on my birthday) well I just sat down after all that , and I cried.She walked in the bedroom and looked at me and said ' HOPE YOU KNOW k how much you are turnin me off right now, I dont think Ill ever feel the same about you. Some fuckin butch! If I wanted a femme I would have stayed with my ex.( even though I am female Identified I have felt that pain , maybe not the same way but It was a huge blow for some reason, and i was effected by those words deeply. I was always having to prove my " butchiness" with her .

the relationship was very short lived after that day

It messed with my head a long time after that relationship ended. and for a long time every time I cried, her words would resurface.

now I am who I am, I cry, I laugh , I Burp( alot and very well I might add)

now it seems crazy that I let those words hurt me so much and question my very being.. but I definitely had a different mind set back then.

hope this relates,

always enjoy your posts Ol' Jet!

Stoney

I am so sorry you experienced this, Stoney. I don't know what causes some people to flip the switch like this. I will never get it after building up a trust, and thinking there is a very clear understanding about sexual-orientation and IDs. For me, the blow was that someone I loved, and who I never thought would stoop so low, did very much the same thing as we were breaking up. In that moment, it was as though I didn't even know her. Even though I went through this, it hasn't changed who i am. What has changed now is my complete lack of trust in getting involved. I will never—and i mean never—put trust in anyone again. The prospect of going it alone at 53, is not fun. But it is what it is.

[Corkey]

This Male ID'd Butch finds the whole premise divisive.
That is all.

[Queerasfck]

Originally Posted by apretty

i have this super amazingly long chore list, feel me bros?

-a super butchy dress

i have to clean my room! and i have to re-pot a mint that Ez bought me! and i have to do the dishes that i made (cuz i promised i would)!

Shouldn't you be in the kitchen?? Maybe you just need a spankin!
So outta hand!

[I'mOneToo]

i've only been hospitalized a couple of times in a couple of years, and they always give me boxes of tissues to take home (cuz one you touch them, they're yours). I do keep them for special guests. It just wouldn't occur to me to buy boxes of kleenex with special holders and stuff, because i just blow my nose on an old sock or a pair of boxers or whatever's handy. {JUST KIDDING} I use TP. Save the tissues for guests.

I have a female relative who's fairly femme. In her bathroom she has a special designer tissue holder but it's always empty. The holder itself is the decor. Maybe she blows on TP or the old standby, a dirty washrag. LOL.

Originally Posted by DapperButch

This is quite funny.

Now do ya not think that I always end up wishing I had real tissues when I see any guest needing one in my home? Yeah, I know, obviously it doesn't impact me enough or I would be sure to have some on hand! I gots to remember this one...